LK171, Daleks, CCM, True Fascists

[LKendter]

960 AD (11)
I’ve been working on the railroad…

The assault on Cheju begins. I kill 2 spears and 1 crossbow. (163-20)
I gained $1 and 7 workers.

The assault on Rio de Janeiro begins. I kill 2 muskets. (165-20)
I gained $1 and 3 workers.

The assault on Pyongsong begins. I kill 2 spears and 1 enslaver. (168-20)
I gained $1 and 1 worker.

I kill Arabia: 1 musket, 1 pike and 2 MDI. (171-20)
I kill Poland: 1 MDI. (172-20)
I lost 2 cavalries. (174-20)

[End of session 3]

 

[LKendter]

Crystal Palace is due in 6 turns. At this point explosives is due in 5 turns. You will need to slow down science in a later turn to get the two in sync for the double free tech.
Once CP is built, we can trade with Turkey for democracy. CP is too important to risk trading away rails now.

There are stray workers between our cities and Korea. I want those workers to get back with our main stacks. There are also strays coming up from former Indochina.
I already got several tiles with rails on them. Cities are already connected with Skaro. There are other stray stacks out there working on rails that I hope to eventually connect with the main stack. This will speed up with explosives giving double speed workers. It will further speed up once we can start building steamrollers.

 

[LKendter]

LKendter
Elephantium (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Jersey Joe

We must raze all the cities. They can’t be captured for even 1 second.
No workers may upgrade to partisans as we don’t want non-Daleks in our army. If we create a foreign partisan, it must be disbanded ASAP.
We are defiant. We must refuse all demands. The superior Daleks will not be ordered by other civs.
We can’t give up anything to get peace. We can't accept cities in peace.
We can’t complete Military Research Center until the appropriate age.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Great Progress

I see no reason for democracy before rails

Two reasons democracy was put before rails: (1) the possiblity it would be come available for trade (as it did), and (2) it is needed as a prequisite for Imperialism.
If we do not know it when the Crystal Palce is built it will be 1 of our free techs.
We need to buy Democracy from Turkey right now and not risk them declaring war on us before we get it from them.
It only costs a little more than 11000 gold with Coal and Fruit thrown in.
Then the Crystal Place gives us Steel and Imperialism and we enter the next age (and get another free tech).

Also, 3 turns before we complete the Crystal Palace we should start prebuilds for the Effiel Tower and the Olympics.

 

[LKendter]

My turn was already a mess with all the wars, and lack of rails. I really wanted that rail-net up ASAP.

We are getting tech so fast, I don't understand the worry about getting democracy from CP. What am I missing?

 

[Elephantium]

I've got it. Looking at the save...

T5, we learn Explosives*
T6, we complete Crystal Palace and get Steel and Democracy as our free techs.

OR,
T5, Buy Democracy and learn explosives*
T6, complete CP. Get Steel and Imperialism as our free techs.

*In actual play, I'll slow down research so that we learn Explosives on T6.

Now, the tech pace is pretty fast - we can probably research Imperialism and even Industrial Age techs in 4 turns.

I can get started tonight, and I'll wait for a consensus on Democracy -- if we trade, I'm thinking we'll trade on T5.

OH!

WE CAN SPEED UP CRYSTAL PALACE!

With 7 rail stacks, I can rail all of Extermination Bend's mined tiles next turn. That will bump it up by ~20-21 spt to 125. We'll get 100+ shields the first turn, then 125 each for 4 turns = 600+ shields

I might not have to slow down research after all.

 

[LKendter]

OH!

WE CAN SPEED UP CRYSTAL PALACE!

With 7 rail stacks, I can rail all of Extermination Bend's mined tiles next turn. That will bump it up by ~20-21 spt to 125. We'll get 100+ shields the first turn, then 125 each for 4 turns = 600+ shields

I might not have to slow down research after all.

With the trade off of delaying city connection. That is what I couldn't wait to get. The question is saving 1 turn off of CP worth delaying several cities on the rail net?

As for the democracy question, I like to understand why Joe doesn't want it free from CP. I don't understand what I'm missing.

 

[Jersey Joe]

As for the democracy question, I like to understand why Joe doesn't want it free from CP

We need to start building many towns to expand our borders.
Trading for Deomcracy means we get Motorized Settlers 4 turns faster because we don't need to learn Imperialism. The Tech we start learning is Improved Steam Engines -> Scientific Method.

Right now Turkey wants Railroads + Fruits and Coal and around 1400 gold for Democracy.
Instead of trading Railroads we can buy Democracy right now for around 11000 gold + Fruits and Gold. Then if we sell Railroads to Turkey (on the turn we build the Crystal Place) we recover the 11000+ gold and maybe some extra because Turkey already got the Fruits and Coal.

You thought we could trade for it after the CP was built. How is trading cash for it right now that much different?

 

[LKendter]

You thought we could trade for it after the CP was built. How is trading cash for it right now that much different?

It isn't that different.

I've been rushing like crazy. I'm sure we will want at least part rush some steamrollers. Trading rails the turn before CP will finish allows us to save the cash to rush. If Turkey researches rails next, it will cost us a lot of gold. The difference is you are looking getting settlers quicker, while I'm looking at max cash. Both are valid paths. Tusker can decide.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Civinator, I noticed that description in the Civilopedia for units provided by Motorization lists the same nations getting both Early Armed Cars and Hotchkiss and does not mention Nubia, Russia ...

 

[Elephantium]

I'm okay with sending cash to Turkey. We'll get it back one way or another

 

[Civinator]

Civinator, I noticed that description in the Civilopedia for units provided by Motorization lists the same nations getting both Early Armed Cars and Hotchkiss and does not mention Nubia, Russia ...

Thank you for the report, I will have a look at this.

Concerning tech Democracy: I try to research it before the AI, as it is a government tech and therefore has 4 x the normal value for the AI civs and can provide a lot of cash when traded. The trade to the AI civ comes close before the railroad tech, giving 2 additional turns for my research and construction of the Crystal Palace by the AI Anarchy when switching governments and reducing the AI research and production by the population loss from Anarchy. In CCM 3 the tech Democracy also allows the very cool improvement "Publishing House", giving additional 25 % production and reducing corruption without needing a special government.

 

[Jersey Joe]

With 7 rail stacks, I can rail all of Extermination Bend's mined tiles next turn. That will bump it up by ~20-21 spt to 125. We'll get 100+ shields the first turn, then 125 each for 4 turns = 600+ shields

I think you should do it.
You have to rail at least 2 mines at Extermination Bend to extend the railnet to the next town, So doing all seven mines means 5 sections of the rail net are delayed 1 turn. However, getting Explosives 1 turn quicker means we can rush Steamrollers a turn sooner and even after buying Democracy we will have enough gold to rush a Steamroller in all of our cities with a population of greater than 3. As long as we rush more than 5 Steamrollers on the turn we learn Explosives, we will make up the 5 delayed tiles.

Edit: Opps, I miscalculated we need to rush 15 Steamrollers

 

[LKendter]

We can’t complete Military Research Center until the appropriate age. This rule is almost over with. The second we enter the next age we can build the MRC.

Don't forget when the current batch of factories is done to start more up. With giving an obscene amount of cash to Turkey for Democracy, we need to be a lot of careful how many we rush.

All the additional workers we gain from Korea and Poland should get inside our borders before starting to lay railroads. I don't want to be laying stray rails in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

I made a bunch of little tweaks, shaving a turn off Factory or Gas Holder builds here and there.

IBT:

Korea bombards a few of our troops. They force a Cav to retreat and kill two more -- one with a Treb, one with an invisible unit.
Turkey and France sign peace.

970 AD:

eHussar kills invisible unit near the Japanese border.

Battle of Namp'o:
We lose 1 Hussar killing 2 GoJoseon Spearman and 1 Crossbowman.
We get 2 Workers.

Clearing the way...
Enslaver kills Crossbowman, promotes
Cuirassier kills Siege-Bow

Battle of Ulsan:
...is barely worth the name. 2 Cavs barely break a sweat. No Workers.

Battle of Belo Horizonte:
Cavs kill 2 Polish Musketeers with 1 retreat. 3 Workers.

A Cav, a Grenadier, and a Lawyer kill 3 stray Arabian units. We get an Artist from it.

Cav kills stray Polish Cannon

IBT:

Winged Hussars go 1:1 with our Cavs at Fortaleza.
Korea bombards us, but they don't do any ground attacks.

980 AD:

Battle of Wonsan:
2 Spears and a Crossbowman don't slow down our Cavs at all. No workers.

Battle of Hyangsan:
Hussars take this one and net a new Leader!
No Workers.

I realize that there are a bunch of fortified Workers near Mechanical Planet. Oops!

Cav kills MDI
Enslaver kills Asian Crossbowman and captures a Korean Settler.

Battle of Recife:
One Cav promotes fighting 2 Polish Musketeers and 1 Winged Hussar.
2 Workers.

We meet Russia. They have 1 gold, plus Dyes available, and they lack Absolutism and Fossil Energy. We make a deal: Spices, Gems, and Tropical Fruit for Dyes.

Battle of Fortaleza:
2 retreats before the defending Polish Musketeers and Winged Hussar fall. 3 Workers.

We kill a stray Winged Hussar and a stray Polish Musketeer
African cav kills a stray Arabian Pike

Railnet so far:
Skaro is connected to Extermination Bend and Kallaan. There's a break in the line (rail in progress), but then Dalek Empire is connected to Mensvat Esc-Dalek.

IBT:

Arabian Crossbowman kills our African Cav
Winged Hussar kills our Cav at Porto Alegre
Korean Crossbowman dies vs. our Hussar.

990 AD:

Railnet update: Earth Core Mining, Draconia, and Port Skaro are connected.

Lawyer captures Enslaver.

Battle of Porto Alegre:
Cavs kill 2 Pikes and a Winged Hussar. 3 Workers.

Battle of Pyongyang:
Hussar kills Spear; we lose a Cav killing the second Spear. No Workers somehow.

Battle of Pusan:
Two Hussars rush the gates. 3 Workers.

IBT:

Korean Crossbowman dies against one of our Hussars.

Japan, furious, complains about one of our guys at the edge of their territory. I end the meeting since it's not a boot order.

1000 AD:

Railnet update: Trenzalore and Satellite Five are connected, and the Skaro line is now connected to the Dalek Empire line.

African Cav kills MDI

Battle of Gniezno:
Camel dies
1 Cav dies, 1 retreats killing 4 Polish Musketeers and one MDI
12 Workers.

Cav retreats from a stray Eastern Musketeer (Arabian, W of Curse of Davros in sector D4)

We buy Democracy for 12277 gold from Turkey.
We send Incas Tropical Fruit for WM + 10gpt.
We send Persia Spices for 90 gold + 2gpt.

IBT:

Arabs kill our wounded Cav from last turn.
Winged Hussar kills another Cav
Korean invisible unit dies on a Hussar.

Explosives > Steel



We also learn Marine Engineering.

1010 AD:

African Cav kills stray Arabian Crossbowman
African Cav kills Winged Hussar

Battle of Seoul:
Cuirassier retreats
Cav retreats
Cav dies
Cav kills Pikeman
Cav kills Pikeman
Cav kills Pikeman, promotes
Cav kills Crossbowman, 8 Workers

African cav kills stray Winged Hussar

Battle of Opole:
3 Cavs kill 3 Polish Musketeers. 4 Workers.

Cav kills stray Winged Hussar

Railnet update: Archives of Phryne, Port Davros, Aridius, and Medusa Cascade are connected.

I rushed and short-rushed just about everything I could think of. We're "down" to 19k gold. I'm going to hold off on selling Rails to Turkey -- it also unlocks Adventurers (annoying), and they're only offering 5k for it. Besides, our deal with them ends in 7 turns -- we can have a rail to their doorstep by then at this rate.

9 Steamrollers are due immediately; 4 more will come in the following turn.

*** One factor I forgot about in earlier discussions was increased Worker productivity. We only need a 12-stack of foreign Workers to rail a tile now!

IBT:

A Musketeer and a Treb both kill Cavs near the Polish border. A Catapult tries to take a third but fails in the attack.

1020 AD:

Cav kills stray Eastern Cannon
Cav kills stray Eastern Musketeer
Cav dies
Cav kills stray Grenadier
Cav dies
Cav kills stray Treb

Railnet update: Skaro's Alligators, Asylum, Cult of Skaro, Emissaries of Jevo, Mechanus, Curse of Davros, Penta Ray Factor, Terrokon Harvest, Mechanical Planet, Bringer of Darkness, Skaro's Crab Shack, and Burgundy are connected.
We also connect the new city of Coffee of the Daleks, N of Burgundy.

While I'm at it, I culture-bomb Coffee of the Daleks.

Battle of Krakow:
Cav dies
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav dies again, promoting the enemy
Cav retreats
Cav retreats
Cav kills the hero Musketeer
12 Workers.

Battle of Torun:
3 losses, 1 retreat before we raze the city. 6 Workers.

Battle of Warsaw:
Cav retreats
Cav dies
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav dies
Cav dies
Cav retreats
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
City holds for now...

Cav kills stray Polish Musketeer

IBT:

Polish Musketeer kills our Cav
Japanese invisible unit kills one of our Cavs
Huh, it seems that Britain has a death wish. They demand iron! They declare war when I refuse.

British ship attacks our Medieval Naval explorer but fails to sink us.

Turkey completes the Alamo.

1030 AD:

Railnet update: Exxilon, Amaryll Challenge, Spiridon, Necros, Genesis of Evil, Evil of the Daleks, and the new city of Menace Monstrons are connected.

The only unconnected cities at this point are New Skaro, Skaro's Gems, and Fruit of Davros.

Cav kills Japanese Warrior Monk

Battle of Lvov:
We lose 1 Cav, kill 2 Polish Musketeers. 6 Workers.

Second Warsaw:
Cav retreats
Cav retreats
Cav dies
Horse Artillery wins a duel with Polish Cannon
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav dies
Cav kills Polish Musketeer, promotes
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav kills Winged Hussar
Lawyer kills redlined Polish Musketeer. Wawel Castle is destroyed. 8 Workers.

I culture-bomb Menace Monstrons.

I'm down to 10k gold, and I see that Turkey and Arabia have Rails now.

Turkey buys Explosives for 10099 gold.
Arabia buys Explosives for 4864 gold.

IBT:

Polish Musketeer kills a Cav



1040 AD:

Battle of Wroclaw:
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav kills Polish Musketeer. No Workers for some reason.

Cav kills stray Polish Musketeer

IBT:

Imp Steam Engines > Scientific Method

1050 AD:

Railnet: Everything save New Skaro is hooked up, and we have enough railing crews to take care of that as soon as it starts producing units again.

Battle of Poznan:
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav dies
Cav dies
Cav dies
Cav kills Late Pikeman
Cav kills Late Pikeman
Lawyer kills redlined Polish Musketeer
8 Workers.

Battle of Kalisz:
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
Cav kills Polish Musketeer
3 Workers.

Battle of Bialystok:
Cav dies, defender promotes
Cav kills Pike
Cav dies, Musketeer promotes
Cav retreats
Cav kills Polish Musketeer. City destroyed.

Enslaver kills cockney enslaver
Cav kills British Camel Musketeer
Cav kills British Camel Musketeer
Cav kills British Camel Musketeer
Cav kills British Camel Musketeer
Cav dies

Cav kills MDI
Cav kills MDI
Cav kills Cannon
Heavy Arty kills Camel Musketeer

Lots of Worker moves, and I'm ready to hand off.

Handoff notes:

We have two cities about to complete Railyards so that Empire of the Daleks can switch from its Battlefield Medicine prebuild to Transcontinental Railroad.

Several Wonders will come in within the next 4 turns. We should line up a prebuild for Arms Race ASAP. Maybe Extermination Bend? It's going to have a very high shield count with ICC + the railyard from Transcontinental RR.

We still have quite a bit of cash for rushing builds.




Britain and the Far East:




Last but not least, this damaged ship is trying to reach China and then hopefully Scandinavia.

 

[Elephantium]

And here's the save:

 

[LKendter]

Good riddance to Korea.

With Britain being suicidal, I know what the troops in former Korea can do.

I like how fast the rail-net came together.

Do we really want Industrial Core in Extermination Bend? Once the wonders are done, it will have way to many shields for troop building.


ROSTER:
LKendter
Elephantium
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)

We must raze all the cities. They can’t be captured for even 1 second.
No workers may upgrade to partisans as we don’t want non-Daleks in our army. If we create a foreign partisan, it must be disbanded ASAP.
We are defiant. We must refuse all demands. The superior Daleks will not be ordered by other civs.
We can’t give up anything to get peace. We can't accept cities in peace.
We can complete the Military Research Center, and please do so ASAP.

 

[LKendter]

Depending how fast Civinator finishes CCM3.0, LK172 will be trying CCM3.0.
This may wrap faster then expected. Once we can build settlers, the land will start back filling fast.
If I interpreted Elephantium's set right, our rail laying abilities have jumped to quite a few hexes a turn. I suspect we can rail to new cities locations at least 1 to 2 a turn.

 

[Elephantium]

For units, there are about 90 attackers fortified near Skaro. They can be committed to Britain as soon as we have places for them to attack. With current positions, Oxford can fall next turn and Cardiff can fall on Greebley's T3. With rail building (I think we can rail ~60 tiles per turn, we have 32 Steamrollers and over 250 foreign workers!), I'd say we could take Sheffield and Leeds next turn as well. We could hit Brighton as well, but I'd leave off that for 2-3 turns to avoid exhausting all our rail capacity.

Good question on the ICC. I had been thinking that it would help get the next Wonders -- it will be helpful for X-Ray, Theory of Relativity, and maybe Antarctic Expedition.

Looks like ICC will get Extermination Bend to 150 spt. Railyards and Steam Engines both add 25%, so they'll even out once SEs go obsolete. While they're both active, EB will get up to ~160 spt (not that it matters, it doesn't help with the Wonders coming up).

Oh -- Power Plants add another 50%, so EB will get to ~170 spt once that's built. Yeah, def overkill for units. I like the idea of getting some of those expensive Wonders in 4 turns, though.

Looking again at the save, I almost want to re-balance things: Have Cult of Skaro build Constitution and use Eiffel Tower as a prebuild to let us get Arms Race the same turn Scientific Method comes in. Thoughts?

 

[Jersey Joe]

Elephantium, nicely done.

To build Arms Race 4 turns from now when Scientific Method is learned:
Next turn after switching Empire of the Daleks from Battlefield Medicine to Transcontinental Railroad, switch Emissaries of Jevo from Constitution to Battlefield Medicine as a prebuild for Arms Race.
We can then use Constitution as a prebuild for X-Ray Machine. Railroading 5 mines at Skaro should increase it to 100+ shields per turn. We should finish mining all of Skaro's Fat cross so that when it losses its Steam Engine we can Plant and mine Forests to bring it back to 100+ shields per turn. See below for Mensvat Esc Dalek as an alternative to Skaro.

Antarctic Expedition has to be build by a city with a harbor. Mensvat Esc Dalek has the highest base gpt so is the ideal candidate for Science Wonders that give extra beakers. However, Mensvat Esc Dalek needs its current forests to be railroaded, and might need forests planted and mined to get it to 100+ shields per turn ( extra forests should not be needed with addition of a Power Plant)

Even though we do not need it, we should build the Blue Riband just to keep it from the Ai. (Getting extra speed on the high seas is a bonus.) We might switch Mechanus from Military Center to Blue Riband.

We should rush an Academy and a Barracks in every city we build. This gets the town to 5 culture points per turn and means that it will accumulate 100 culture for 3rd ring expansion in 20 turns. More culture is better since it will speed up getting to 100 culture and 3rd ring expansion. Also, we should consider this for all new towns built when we start using motorized settlers.

I think our tech path should be Scientific Method -> Electricity -> Atomic Theory -> Radio -> Nationalism
Radio and Nationalism have Wonders that will provide buildings, that give culture, to all our towns.

Crazy Idea: Can we exterminate our rivals before any of them reach the Industrial Age?