Embassy Cavaleiros-discussion
- Thread starter HUSch
- Start date
I was thinking in terms of one teams puts the espionage slider high and allocates points to a enemy team, one team puts research high. The one researching gives tech in exchange for info about the enemy. Though it's unclear whether that would work in practice. 
Unionfield
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2007
- Messages
- 273
Eh, I'm more for espionage being just high enough so that people don't steal things from us.
It's not something that can be done right now anyway. I was just listing all the types of alliances I could think of. We should look beyond the immediate negotiations and consider the possible long term relationships.
THE LETTER arrives!
First impressions:
Sounds pretty good
The other interesting tidbit is that the third civ has writing
I'm of the opinion we should accept... but let's discuss this in depth first!
Spoiler :
First impressions:
Sounds pretty good
The other interesting tidbit is that the third civ has writing
I'm of the opinion we should accept... but let's discuss this in depth first!
Much flowery speaking. What it says:
Cav and another have a treaty with tech trade (one alpha, the other mona and the necessary techs).
They offer us participation, our fee: poly and other tech(s) (archery, sailing, IW).
My reasoning, they can't calculate (red researched)
Alpha+ writing 448 + 179 = 627
Mona + Priest 448 + 89 = 537
Both have to research a tech of 448, writing is not so expensive like the number indicate, because with pottery and at least priest (perhaps additional AH) for Cav writing has research factor > 1,4 or 1,6.
Poly (149), sailing (149), IW (299), archery 89
equivalent would be sailing and IW for us. When they consider, they 'll know, for us archery isn't a important tech Holkan is better than archer.
Although I agree with the treaty proposal. A quick ally is better than the hope of a better later.
btw
Infos about the unknown ally, they 've writing and is not SAN. They both 've copper without the push to research IW would be bigger. What for unknown res (Oil in water etc) must we have, that Sulla is the meaning the starting position is equivalent.
Cav and another have a treaty with tech trade (one alpha, the other mona and the necessary techs).
They offer us participation, our fee: poly and other tech(s) (archery, sailing, IW).
My reasoning, they can't calculate (red researched)
Alpha+ writing 448 + 179 = 627
Mona + Priest 448 + 89 = 537
Both have to research a tech of 448, writing is not so expensive like the number indicate, because with pottery and at least priest (perhaps additional AH) for Cav writing has research factor > 1,4 or 1,6.
Poly (149), sailing (149), IW (299), archery 89
equivalent would be sailing and IW for us. When they consider, they 'll know, for us archery isn't a important tech Holkan is better than archer.
Although I agree with the treaty proposal. A quick ally is better than the hope of a better later.
btw
Infos about the unknown ally, they 've writing and is not SAN. They both 've copper without the push to research IW would be bigger. What for unknown res (Oil in water etc) must we have, that Sulla is the meaning the starting position is equivalent.
The unknown third civ probably also has AH.
(It is not explicitly mentioned.)
Right now, their proposal looks good, but I'll sleep over it first
Questions/Points that come to my mind at once:
- Who is the third team? I don't want to sign/commit without knowing who I'm dealing with.
- I want contact to that 3rd team. It's a really bad situation to rely on Cav in an alliance for communication.
HUSch
I read more like the expect whatever we can research till alpha is in. I guess Cav will be able to offer some more beakers after monarchy in one of the remaining techs...
Sailing, IW, Poly and archery are the early techs they don't have in their pool yet.
(And as you said: IW+Sailing = monarchy = alphabet in beaker count)
(Concerning starting positions:
I also can't find the point that equalizes them. All other teams started with at least one 6 food-resource, while our two food-resources are just 4 food. That is a huge disadvantage. Further we don't have copper close by while these 2 teams obviously have copper (Cav) or copper/horses (3rd team).
Next point is surrounding lands... Cav obviously got a great flood-river near by, while we struggle with 2nd/3rd city with lack of food and jungle...
Hoping for iron in CERN now... but this is all a different matter...)
(It is not explicitly mentioned.)
Right now, their proposal looks good, but I'll sleep over it first
Questions/Points that come to my mind at once:
- Who is the third team? I don't want to sign/commit without knowing who I'm dealing with.
- I want contact to that 3rd team. It's a really bad situation to rely on Cav in an alliance for communication.
HUSch
I read more like the expect whatever we can research till alpha is in. I guess Cav will be able to offer some more beakers after monarchy in one of the remaining techs...
Sailing, IW, Poly and archery are the early techs they don't have in their pool yet.
(And as you said: IW+Sailing = monarchy = alphabet in beaker count)
(Concerning starting positions:
I also can't find the point that equalizes them. All other teams started with at least one 6 food-resource, while our two food-resources are just 4 food. That is a huge disadvantage. Further we don't have copper close by while these 2 teams obviously have copper (Cav) or copper/horses (3rd team).
Next point is surrounding lands... Cav obviously got a great flood-river near by, while we struggle with 2nd/3rd city with lack of food and jungle...
Hoping for iron in CERN now... but this is all a different matter...)
We should ask them to reveal who the other civ is and how they met. However, what map information can we reveal in return? If we've no fear of a backstab once an alliance is set, one option would be to reveal more about our location. We're allowed to describe anything, just can't use screenshots.
Also we should ask Cav if the other team knows who we are.
On balance: I wonder if we are (were) expected to expand in the direction of better land and move our capitol? That would be a pretty loose interpretation of "balanced". Not much to be gained by thinking about it though, gotta play what we have.
Also we should ask Cav if the other team knows who we are.
On balance: I wonder if we are (were) expected to expand in the direction of better land and move our capitol? That would be a pretty loose interpretation of "balanced". Not much to be gained by thinking about it though, gotta play what we have.
I'm in favor of the agreement, and we should go for IW. We need it anyway...
Great News!!:
Spoiler :
OK - if there's anyone here who thinks we should NOT join this alliance, you better speak up soon! So far there's overwhelming support for joining, and I'd like to give them an answer today.
Also, it would be nice to send a postcard to Kazakhstan.
Also, it would be nice to send a postcard to Kazakhstan.
Here's the chat w/ Oyzar:
Important items:
- They want us to research Sailing and Archery before IW. Sailing makes sense, but I'm not sure about Archery
- We'll be able to trade for AH
- Kazakhstan also has a coastal start, they are east of Cav roughly 30 tiles.
- they haven't settled copper yet either
- I wouldn't read too much into his impressions of the geography, i had the feeling it was mostly probing to see how I would answer
- They are ansty for an official response
Spoiler :
Important items:
- They want us to research Sailing and Archery before IW. Sailing makes sense, but I'm not sure about Archery
- We'll be able to trade for AH
- Kazakhstan also has a coastal start, they are east of Cav roughly 30 tiles.
- they haven't settled copper yet either
- I wouldn't read too much into his impressions of the geography, i had the feeling it was mostly probing to see how I would answer
- They are ansty for an official response
Proposed Letter of Acceptance:
Principe Perfeito, we share your vision for the Future!
We Mad Scientists are ready to join The Cause, enriching the Three Noble Nations: Mad Scientists, Kazakhstan, and Os Cavaleiros. We will do our part to bring a much-needed boost to our combined status in the world. Is there a formal document we should affix our seal to?... if so, please send it on over
Our tech plan is to do Sailing first. We should be able to have that done in [x] turns. During that time, we will use a workboat to chart a trade route between us. In order to speed exploration and contact, please describe best route for us to meet Kazakhstan - by sea or by land?
Glad to be aboard!
Peter Grimes, Diplomat
The Mad Scientists
And the proposed postcard to send on to Kaz:
Principe Perfeito, we share your vision for the Future!
We Mad Scientists are ready to join The Cause, enriching the Three Noble Nations: Mad Scientists, Kazakhstan, and Os Cavaleiros. We will do our part to bring a much-needed boost to our combined status in the world. Is there a formal document we should affix our seal to?... if so, please send it on over
Our tech plan is to do Sailing first. We should be able to have that done in [x] turns. During that time, we will use a workboat to chart a trade route between us. In order to speed exploration and contact, please describe best route for us to meet Kazakhstan - by sea or by land?
Glad to be aboard!
Peter Grimes, Diplomat
The Mad Scientists
And the proposed postcard to send on to Kaz:
Attachments
I believe either they have copper but haven't connected it, or Kaz has two and is willing to trade. If they didn't, then they shouldn't dismiss IW so quickly. Plus Oyzar said "haven't settled" vs. "don't have", possibly so it wouldn't be a lie later.
Sailing could mean they would like to build the GLight, or it could be they settled so borders don't touch and want a river connection to resources.
Sailing could mean they would like to build the GLight, or it could be they settled so borders don't touch and want a river connection to resources.
Sailing is for us without any reason, the same is right for archery.
We need Iron or horses.
We need Iron or horses.
No, the workboat will start clearing the black in about 5 turns. We do, however, get +1 trade route immediately. So it's not like we don't get anything at all for it.
Plus, we'll have it sooner than IW, which means we can trade techs sooner.
Plus, we'll have it sooner than IW, which means we can trade techs sooner.
We 'll need sailing when we 've a known coast way, perhaps you 'll count. when the time is.
2.
We want writing an d mona for sailing and IW. That for the annonce of Cav.
Not sailing for AH.
