ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2725 BC (51 turns)

Okay! You said settle in place, I settled in place.



The deer was a nice surprise--a food tile I can improve immediately with my starting techs.

It reinforced, for me, the suggestion several of you had: build a Worker first.



After the Worker, I built two Warriors.

Meanwhile, my Scout began exploring and quickly met my two immediate neighbours.





Interesting combination there. And they're both Spiritual, too. Saladin presents a bit of a challenge with his Protective units. They would be a very good workout for the Guerilla III Gallic Warriors several of you have been urging me to build.

Mansa could be a good source of techs, but if that's it for other civs on the continent and I kill off Saladin, Mansa won't trade anything without another civ present. Or is Mansa the sole exception to that? I don't think so, I seem to recall that the tech-trading uniqueness about Mansa is that he's the only one willing to trade monopoly techs. Or am I wrong about that, too? It's been a while since I played against him.

And since I left vassal states on, vassalizing Mansa and outsourcing research to him could be an option. Think about it!

But of course I'm getting ahead of myself. As you can see, I was also following the suggested research path, Mining to start, followed by Bronze Working.





And is there copper close by? You betcha!



Not in the capital's BFC, but tantilizingly close. The only complication is that I soon discovered that Saladin is due north of me, and therefore a threat to grab that copper tile before me. Once the camp for the deer and the mine for the silver were done, I set about chopping out a Settler.

I then obtained a tech to get those two crab tiles on-line.



On the last turn of the round, I found out I was next-to-last in culture.



Well, it's good not to be the lowest guy on the totem pole. Y'know, for a change.

Last tech of the round:



I've selected Pottery as my next tech, but I've ended the round here so we can discuss whether I should stick with it or pursue something else.

A look at the map:



So where's the best place for copper city? To get it on-line ASAP, the city should be located right next to it--I was thinking of the tile 1 NE of the copper to have both it and the wheat in the city's first cultural ring long before a monument is built. In which case, perhaps I should research Agriculture next. It should also help make Pottery cheaper.

Lots of tundra--not a surprise, I knew I was way down near the bottom of the southern hemisphere. But there is lots of early, pre-Calendar happy around: silver, gold, wine, and even ivory (though I'll have to pry the latter from Saladin's cold, dead fingers).

Anyway, I look forward to the first set of dot maps.

Finally, a look at the top 5 cities and wonders.



So no one's built Stonehenge yet, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been started. I dunno, turn 51 seems awfully late. Maybe I should focus on expansion as many of you have been urging, then military. Saladin starts with Mysticism--maybe he'll build it for me. Then again, it looks like he's been focused on expansion, so I kind of doubt that he's bothered. I suspect I'll get a message that it's been built somewhere very early in the next round.

So that was a longer round that I anticipated, but it took a long time to go through all the initial moves many of you suggested. The next two rounds, I think, will be crucial, so I look forward to your collective advice.

Normally I dont like settling on copper, but in this case....it makes sense. Youre only losing 3 hammers since its on a plains hill. You pick up alot more grassland, the spices for 1 extra food, and an extra hill.....all workable given the food thats also available. Its also an easy choice for Heroic Epic. The wheat can be irrigated with CS as well.

If you settle on the copper. You can get another worker out of the capitol with a chop....1 worker builds a road while the other chops a barracks at capitol....then chop axes till Sally is gone....or at least trimmed back. Mansa will trade no matter what....thats just how he is.

Try to get to Alphabet while beating up on Sally so you can extort techs for peace.

Nothing to add guys, sorry - just subscribing! Been looking forward to you playing one of my favorite leaders for a while now! Good luck man. Grab that copper and give em hell!

Copper so close? Perrrrrrrrfect

Of course, neither of those guys is very fun to rush, but that will just give you a chance to showcase the Celtic UU, right?

Looking good. I'd say if you want to get your slavery on, whipping that settler would net you enough spillover for a workboat, which would regrow your capital pretty quickly.

Sal's already got BW (he's running slavery), so it's probably worth it to tech pottery then writing to open borders and scout what kind of resources he has. (With AH as well to see if horses are present, of course)

I'm thinking there is likely one other civ in this land... otherwise, your espionage ratings would be near parity, correct? You've got a 3:2 ratio going with both Mansa and Sally, so they're probably dividing espionage against you and an unknown civ, but I can't say for certain (somebody with more insight on the AI espionage behavior have any ideas?)

The one thing I see is that gold & floodplains location may be the solution to Boudica's inherent financial weakness. Of course, you'll have to get rid of that lime green city, first.

Sisiutil said:

Mansa could be a good source of techs, but if that's it for other civs on the continent and I kill off Saladin, Mansa won't trade anything without another civ present. Or is Mansa the sole exception to that? I don't think so, I seem to recall that the tech-trading uniqueness about Mansa is that he's the only one willing to trade monopoly techs. Or am I wrong about that, too?

Click to expand...

When you are alone with Mansa, every tech he knows but you don't know will be a monopoly tech for him--but he will trade it to you, because he has iTechTradeKnownPercent=0.
Let Saladin do the dotmapping for you and let Mansa research ABC for you (trade Aesthetics).

I guess history will repeat itself again here, once you kill Saladin the game will be in the bag...
Go Obelix!

settle one north east of copper, and research agri

Some guy wrote an article on the Early Rush in the strategy sub-forum. Maybe you should see if it really works.
Agri before pottery (should give you a slight discount on pottery for pre-req iirc).

Saladin's probably building Stonehenge for you. I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't try, he and the Indians always get it in my games. You certainly have almost no chance of getting it yourself now. Don't waste the hammers.

I like the site north of the hill (that's between the copper and the wheat). You'll get the copper and wheat, and also the cow. With the wheat for growth, and some workshops on the plains, it could be a mighty production city. Though I say that without having drawn a dot map or looked closely at the other locations.

I agree with tycoonist, at size 7 (your current happy cap for a city there it would get 19 production, or 18 + a cottage or just stagnate at size 6 for now).
After settling that city I would work toward IW (to rush Saladin) with help of the silver and a few cottages at the capital, I think writing can be saved for later if this is decided.
Possibly the western gold could be grabbed, preferable on coast to hook up with Sailing, but the land is pretty crappy over there.

Both MM and Sal likes to found religions, I don't know if we should hope Sal founds one or not since it would make a rush on him even harder but otoh it would net a holy city to help with the MM lovefest.

Medina is already at 3 pop.

NE of the copper seems the best spot for your second city, although it will be short on food for a while. Monument as its first build (working the forested plains hill?).

Agr. next, but after that what about going for IW. This setup seems to require rushing Saladin, so why not use your UU? Since you only need copper for it you know it will be available.

I don't know if it's worth founding any more cities until after Saladin is dead. Focus production on workers, barracks and axes (until IW is done).

whakamole said:

I'd say if you want to get your slavery on, whipping that settler would net you enough spillover for a workboat, which would regrow your capital pretty quickly.

Click to expand...

The problem with whipping is that you lose the silver miner. I would just let the settler finish, then build the workboat while growing to pop 3. That way you can work the crabs, deer and silver.

Gliese 581 said:

Both MM and Sal likes to found religions, I don't know if we should hope Sal founds one or not since it would make a rush on him even harder but otoh it would net a holy city to help with the MM lovefest.

Click to expand...

FYI, since Sisiutil didn't mention it, the first 2 religions have already been founded. The Monotheism religion will probably be founded soon, but that should be it before the rush.

Plop your city down 1NE of copper and build a cheap barracks there and start making axemen and a spear or two. The whole point of settling next to the metal is to obviate the need for a monument. And if Sal builds Stonehenge you won't need to build any monuments ever. Research agriculture and AH. I bet you've got horses in the grassland 2E of the capital.

First I thought I'd agree with Cabledawg.
Access to copper asap is vital.
You do loose some hammers from pop 2 but you gain some hammers before pop2+mine is built.
On the other hand you need culture to access the food resources ...
A good option is of course 1n of copper but is it better...?
Seems the question is if you want:
A. to build mine+extra roads with delayed axes in capital ... or
B. build a monument for later food access in city2 but earlier axes in capital.

On top of the Copper. Faster and the city still has plenty of food and production.

Terrible land. I think you want an Axe rush or an Axe/Cat rush.

The former would be with two cities and chopping.

For the latter maybe you can stick to two cities (or three, but I don't know where), build axes, bulb Math, and research Construction at 100%.

One option is to grab just Medina with Axes, settle on the Wine and maybe one other city (like Wheat/Cow/Gold), then get in a Cat war before Longbows.

1N is much better. You get 2 hammers from cows and 6 from the mine, and you can skip the monument.

I wouldn't be too worried about the success immortal level axe rush from that close, especially when his #2 cities is flood plain rich/production poor, and won't have river defense. The big question is if you can take out his capital (if it's not on a hill) before he gets iron (or is really lucky with copper).

NE of copper is better than north coz if you've got no culture Medina would pinch the cows with a border pop. Its also quicker to research agric for wheat than AH for cows.

Another vote for settling on the copper. It gives you 3 hammers permanently, better defence being on a hill and you certainly won't have the cows in your culture. Until Medina is yours that is.

Also I would forgo the early rush here and as someone else mentioned get construction for catapults before attacking. We've seen the early axe rush plenty of times so would be nice to see cats in action along with your Gallic Warriors.

The land around you isn't great but a couple of sites the 2 deer/wine commerce and the fish/wheat for whipping but nowhere really stands out.

Mansa is likely to zoom ahead in tech so I would go for something like agr/pot/writing/iw/sailing (extra 2 food in Bibracte from lighthouse would be great + trade routes)/maths/construction. Run scientists in Bibracte to help with the tech rate. Build a couple of cottages as well but leave most of the forests for chopping after math is in for a quick army of cats.

After all that go and find some better lands. I'm sure Sal won't mind giving up his.

Looking forward to the next round.

(Edit I forgot the most important tech. Masonry I expect Duns in every city. )

No do not wait until catapults

Don't forget masonry for dun's and the UU guerilla upgardes. I vote a UU rush without catapults. You'll take some losses at first city but the survivors will have that 50% withdrawl and you should be able to mop up, especially if you knock out his military resources with a small pillager stack.