OMFG Marathon

If you read many of the Deity/Immortal threads here, you will find that many are very successful at waging war with non-outdated units on Standard speed. The key is emphasizing science for techs and unit promotions. Even I had an Immortal domination game recently where I enjoyed military superiority from the moment I upgraded to CompBows all the way to end capturing seven capitals. Nothing designed bad about it but it takes good gaming skills to play effectively.
Units getting outdated before reaching their target has nothing to do with "skills" of course, its only pure logic and map size settings. Moving an army for 16-24 turns across a Huge map makes you able to research a better unit on Standard speed. And so do the enemy.
Simple math.
 
Except people consistently wage succesful wars with units on Standard speed. You might prefer having a longer time to enjoy each era and that's just fine, but the truth is : standard speed does allow you to fully use units. Like, conquer the whole world with Keshiks is fairly easily done, even on higher difficulties, for example, but also with Crossbows, Artillery...

Basically you can do whatever you want, but don't pretend your way of playing is the only viable one.
 
It's not just "his way was the only way" but that it couldn't be done on standard. Units do not get outdated on standard even if you have to go 12-15 hexes before attacking your nearest neighbor. The reason is that you have good growth, gold and science and made the right choices in regards to getting an adequate sized army out that fights against opponent's units that are 1-2 era behind. That takes skills. Otherwise, if you are starting to build Xbows at the same time the opponents are into gunpowder, you are doing it wrong.
 
Except people consistently wage succesful wars with units on Standard speed. You might prefer having a longer time to enjoy each era and that's just fine, but the truth is : standard speed does allow you to fully use units. Like, conquer the whole world with Keshiks is fairly easily done, even on higher difficulties, for example, but also with Crossbows, Artillery...

Basically you can do whatever you want, but don't pretend your way of playing is the only viable one.
Of course they do. Just take a city and upgrade your units. My point was, and still is, if you intend to strike a target on the other side of a Huge map, with land units, chance is your units will be obsolete by the time you have finished swimming the ocean for hundreds of thousands of years.
 
Well standard speed is perfectly balanced for standard size, epic for big, marathon for huge and quick for small, I think it's as simple as that...
Right now I do enjoy epic and big maps (Complete Europe FTW) and would feel weird going back, but a nice standard game in one night is nice and refreshing too!
 
I get what Securion is saying. On standard and quick you're really limited to fighting on your borders which means you don't always get to fight the civ it'd be most logical to go after from a diplomatic or gameplay perspective. You have to twist the diplomacy to make your neighbor into the bad guy so you can invade without getting chain denounced. Also there are a few units you really just don't get to use on standard or quick, longswords being the big one. That's why they monkeyed with the berserker and samurai techs.

On marathon that's not really a problem. If somebody halfway across the world is getting denounced or starting to run away with the game you can take the time to move troops over there and invade without worrying about them going obsolete before they get there. You have more options and can go with the flow a little better.
 
My first Marathon game lasted about 1500 turns, and although I was determined to win it and eventually did, it was my last Marathon game, as well.
 
Units getting outdated before reaching their target has nothing to do with "skills" of course, its only pure logic and map size settings. Moving an army for 16-24 turns across a Huge map makes you able to research a better unit on Standard speed. And so do the enemy.
Simple math.

What is the logic of dragging your army far across a huge map, when you are left without decent homeland defence and likely can't connect new cities to your network? Logical and realistic (incidentally) decision would be to kill an immediate neighbour and benefit from saturating your economy, while quickly resupplying the front line with units, additionally keeping your ever growing army close to it's core in case Alex charges in from the South..
 
The thing about Marathon maps is that the economy of empire development doesn't change, including war-related stuff, since all the costs are re-balanced, but the logistics of warfare change drastically.

(1) In economic matters, everyone's reaction time is essentially tripled, including yours, so long-term planning is more essential, but also more beneficial. For instance, the need for a standing army big enough to work as a deterrent is more pronounced, as is the benefit of catching an enemy unprepared.

(2) "What's the point of dragging your army halfway across the map?". I'd say fighting the enemy who matters is. As a rule you'd prefer maintaining good diplomatic relations with your immediate neighbours anyway.

(3) I haven't played that much on standard maps, but my impression is that something like a "global strategy of power projection" isn't all that feasible at standard speed on large or huge maps. Basically, the only global activity you have there is diplomacy.

The main point of attraction for me is something less tangible though: in Marathon games, an era actually feels like an era. There is a lot of time to get things done, and if you find anything to do that involves moving units around, for whichever purpose, it won't get tedious. War, long-range overseas expansion, exploration, archaeology, doing quests for city states halfway across the map, doesn't matter. In fact, I don't find the early game tedious at all since you explore at the same speed as on standard pacing, and you have the chance of exploring a large territory before the enemy expands there and prevents you.

There are two drawbacks:

(1) There can be some tediousness here and there, depending on map type and your enemies, times when "doing something that involves moving units around" isn't feasible because everything that can be done at this time has been done unless it involves attacking your neighbour. One example is the Medieval era on any map type with sizeable oceans. Marathon pacing means you have often explored everything reachable without crossing an ocean before the Medieval era even starts, so unless you're going to war, you'll have a time where you'll be doing nothing but hitting "next turn" for a while, interrupted by the occasional production change.

(2) For whichever reason, AI turns tend to take a very long time in the late game. That's the biggest issue with Marathon games. AI turns that take 30 seconds or even one minute really get on your nerves. I'm finding myself switching tasks and watching Let's Play videos of other games while waiting for the AI's turn to end - and I wish I could disable diplomacy events which have nothing but an AI leader commenting on stuff. I find this decidedly odd btw.. With computing power like a reasonably up-to-date PC it shouldn't take this long to calculate AI moves.

All in all, with any civilization I really want to get into, I'll likely always play Marathon games. Simply because, as I said, an era feels like an era there.
 
Top Bottom