The Deity Challenge Line-up #41 - Shoshone

consentient said:
Update: T132 Domination

OK that's by far my fastest on the DCL. If you can get to Machinery and then Chivalry PDQ on this map then the land is yours!
Click to expand...

Congrats, that's excellent! You've set the bar pretty high for this map! I captured 3rd capital on T101; I'm guessing you were in the 90s?

What is PDQ?
 
Blatc said:
Congrats, that's excellent! You've set the bar pretty high for this map! I captured 3rd capital on T101; I'm guessing you were in the 90s?

What is PDQ?
Click to expand...

Thanks. Approximate timings:

Spoiler :
#1: Attila's Court - T60ish
#2: Venice - T65ish
#3: Mecca - T75ish
#4: Honolulu - T95ish
#5: Warsaw - T110ish
#6: Constantinople & #7: Moscow - both around same time T132


PDQ: Pretty Damn/Darn Quick
 
@consentient wow, you did something(s) much better than me early on!
My current game is T101, illiterate, went Machinery (89?), Horseback, then Writing only because it was on the way to Chivalry (not there yet). I didn't finish Liberty early enough to use GS towards Machinery, so I'm saving it to bulb Chivalry/Knights. I went something like Pathfinderx4, archer, caravan, monument, granary. I built pyramids, as I hadn't stolen many workers and a cultural CS wanted them (also cleared a camp for them).

Spoiler :

I took Mecca 2nd, before Venice. I delayed taking Venice in the 90s: Poland was at war with them (and had denounced me), so I surrounded the Polish troops with my own and Venice and massacred them (then took Venice in 2-3 turns). I think Poland has great wall and zeus, but I put Poland to war with everyone and am hoping I can move through them pretty quickly.
 
I got my butt kicked. First a Poland attack which I managed to chase off but then Attila swarmed me.

Maybe I need to reload and attack Attila first.
 
Blatc said:
I went something like Pathfinderx4, archer, caravan, monument, granary. I built pyramids, as I hadn't stolen many workers and a cultural CS wanted them (also cleared a camp for them).
Click to expand...

Everything for me snowballed from getting the pop ruins and the pantheon. I realised I could grow the capital mega fast. The built settler was made in 5 turns and came the same turn as the free one. Settled early, then just concentrated on units. You don't need a caravan when your pop is much higher because its not giving much back and you are then committed not to kill the other person. Sounds like you needed Pyramids, but think of how many Archers you can make with the same hammers. I guess I was lucky with my worker steals. I had two off of both the Southern neighbours before T25. I rush-bought a granary with pathfinder gold and I think my first 3 victims had all the decent warmonger wonders to make the rest of my sweep easy (SoZ, Pyramids, Machu)
 
T144 Domination Victory

Have to admit I'm disappointed not to be sub-130, but overall think I played it well. I really like this civ, particularly because you get to chose the ancient ruin benefits, making the game more skill/decision oriented and less based on luck.

Tech-wise, I basically did the 1st column, Calendar, then Construction (T43), Machinery (T89), Horseback Riding, then Chivalry using GS from Liberty finisher (T108).

Screenshot
Spoiler :



consentient said:
Everything for me snowballed from getting the pop ruins and the pantheon. I realised I could grow the capital mega fast. The built settler was made in 5 turns and came the same turn as the free one. Settled early, then just concentrated on units. You don't need a caravan when your pop is much higher because its not giving much back and you are then committed not to kill the other person. Sounds like you needed Pyramids, but think of how many Archers you can make with the same hammers. I guess I was lucky with my worker steals. I had two off of both the Southern neighbours before T25. I rush-bought a granary with pathfinder gold and I think my first 3 victims had all the decent warmonger wonders to make the rest of my sweep easy (SoZ, Pyramids, Machu)
Click to expand...

Going illiterate and not even building a caravan is something I hadn't even considered. As for wonders, the first 3 capitals I conquered had Itza, Hanging Gardens, and Stonehenge. The 3rd capital, to my SE, had nothing but a market, which really surprised me. No one built Machu.
 
The SE neighbour attracted nothing but hate and I don't think he ever recovered from me taking his 2 workers. Let's face it: he's never strong, and he's totally screwed on this map template.

Nice win! :)
 
consentient said:
Let's face it: he's never strong, and he's totally screwed on this map template.
Click to expand...
The map has exactly one hex for a coastal city. I am sorry he did not get it, but no luxes. That civ that built there of course got GLh and Colossus. My dom run is going late game, but I get to build Prora and Sydney there!

Does anyone know if it is common for Great Plains maps to have 10% ocean? I was disappointed not to find a small island with ruins...

Yes, he was really screwed on this map template. Does IGE let you switch out civs? There were a couple civs that were really put at a disadvantage.
 
IGE does NOT allow for replacement of civs, sadly :(
 
Tried for an illiterate CB/XB with liberty and actually got construction at 52 machinery at 102. Managed to kill both NW neighbor and E neighbor with CB only, but got triple DoW shortly after upgrading XB (S neighbor was already eliminated due to earlier war). Actually lost my capital to a CS on turn 116 which was quite a humiliation. There was no way to prevent the triple DoW even if I bribed the turn before. There was no way to recover from it due to negative gpt disbanding my units and unhappiness problems and no tech other than the required ones. I have no libraries in any conquered cities, so that was pretty bad luck. Maybe attacking E neighbor 2nd was a mistake, would've been much easier to take out the ones to the south first. That way I wouldn't have to fight a 2 front war later when they DoW.
 
Took/razed all 3 of NW's cities, and took 2/4 of E neighbor and still got the DoW. Anyways, I'll replay with a safer standard approach with 3 city NC. If I had better gpt, buying CS would've saved me.
 
I left NW AI with 2 cities (he had 5 when I DoW'ed), and SW with 3, so I only took uber-heat for wiping out NippleHead.
 
T82 honor complete, captured first [NW] city, machinery 10t

Spoiler :

I think it's going fairly well. 3 city NC, completed turn 70 or so. After that built oracle in capital to finish honor tree, 10 turns from machinery.



Captured the first hunnic city with archers + 2pathCB + horseman, mostly for experience and because it was in the way,but I did lose some in the end as they were killed in one turn by city + CB's. Just upgraded everything to CBs (10, mostly lvl 2 or 3, some of them close to lvl 4), and will reach machinery in 10t with enough money to upgrade all CB's to XB.

Went honour 2 right side (for culture + happy), 2 left side (for XP), finished with oracle. Teched lux -> phil -> guilds -> con and now to machinery in 10t. Pathfinders (starting + 1 extra) got 5 villages in total, I think pop+culture+faith+2xupgrade. Got sun god pantheon so cap could grow (11 pop, 32 production), but cap hasn't contributed much to military yet.

Diplomacy-wise, I had to bride Poland to get him off my back, I'm currently friends with poland, Byzantium and the Arabs. I felt dirty selling the marble to a "friend" the turn before razing the hunnic city, but I guess world domination is not supposed to be good for the soul. I allied Tyre with barb quest + returned worker, which helps a lot with happiness.


Anyway, although I'm sure I won't be beating any speed records, I have the feeling I'm in decent position. One question about infra: My cities only have monument + library + barracks, capital also has stable+granary. Should I continue building CB's now to make sure I can finish attilla, or should I take a small breather to build stable + granary + circus in the other cities and circus / market / caravans in the cap (and maybe some pathfinders for happy and scouting)

[BTW I noticed that if you are razing a city that is no longer in resistance, you don't get the ranged attack - but you can stop razing, use the attack, and continue razing in the same turn... I had to keep the hunnic city alive for a turn to protect my capturing horseman and to help kill some HA's. The first time I captured I actually withdrew the horseman because there was a ram standing next to it, it also gave another XP boost to my archers :) ]


Update: T95, captured NW capital and upgraded to XB's. Lost one CB due to stupidity. Friend asked me to join against E neighbour (whom I had to bribe twice before) when I was just moving my XB's to E city, so accepted and killed first horseman. Did not build any more units, instead built some essential infra, will start building units again asap.

Spoiler Update: T115 :

War went well, easily captured warsaw and the next city, which I razed and used a GG to get the only extra luxury (silver). Then moved my army SW and killed venice without even trying. Next turn moved the army in position to attack Arabia, but they declared on me instead (without asking what my troops are doing there, they were 1 tile distant). This is fine by itself, only he got Russia to join as well, which is annoying as she is the biggest civ on the map. Decided to get Arabia first, and build a second army in the meantime to kill Russia. I hope I can play defensive on the N / NE while doing this, annoyingly Russia was allied with Byblos, so I first need to defend against that.

Arabia is a juicy target (with Notre Dame and Petra), but also has great wall so maybe it would make more sense to keep him last when I get dynamite? I do have 3 range XB by now, but it will still be a slog...
 
Sclb said:
Tried for an illiterate CB/XB with liberty and actually got construction at 52 machinery at 102. Managed to kill both NW neighbor and E neighbor with CB only, but got triple DoW shortly after upgrading XB (S neighbor was already eliminated due to earlier war). Actually lost my capital to a CS on turn 116 which was quite a humiliation. There was no way to prevent the triple DoW even if I bribed the turn before. There was no way to recover from it due to negative gpt disbanding my units and unhappiness problems and no tech other than the required ones. I have no libraries in any conquered cities, so that was pretty bad luck. Maybe attacking E neighbor 2nd was a mistake, would've been much easier to take out the ones to the south first. That way I wouldn't have to fight a 2 front war later when they DoW.
Click to expand...

This is a map where we know the general layout on T0, same as Lakes and a few others, and can plan with that in mind. For myself, I decided very early on I would start with the Western civs and work my way East, aiming to split into 2 armies (North and South) most likely after Machinery and 3rd capital. With this general plan in place, I did a few things that helped pull it off:
-scouted East and sent caravan that way
-payed NW neighbour to DOW Eastern neighbour; denounced NW neighbour before my own DOW
This led to a DOF with Eastern neighbour. They backstabbed me after I captured my 2nd capital, but overall it bought enough time that I was able to decide when the war started.
 
I used Oxford for Fertilizer and and Ratty finisher for Dynamite -- and still could not get anywhere with arty!

Once I got Rocketry, then I finally started to progress. I finished with about 2 turns left on Clauswitch (sp) so I feel like I am at least experiencing the pacing the developers tried to set up.
 

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beetle said:
I used Oxford for Fertilizer and and Ratty finisher for Dynamite -- and still could not get anywhere with arty!

Once I got Rocketry, then I finally started to progress. I finished with about 2 turns left on Clauswitch (sp) so I feel like I am at least experiencing the pacing the developers tried to set up.
Click to expand...

Nice and fast victiry
 
Update: T142, 2 caps to go, but running out of steam.
Spoiler :

Southern war went well. I diverted some XBs north to help defend against russia and allied CS, and the main force captured Medina and Mecca. Range+logistics XB are nice to have :). After than went east and captured honolulu T142.



The north/eastern war against Russia is not going anywhere. The terrain is annoying, especially since all my XB's went with accuracy (open bonus) since I thought that great plains would be mostly, well, plains, but Russia has a lot of forest and hills. Especially the northern approach to moscow is very annoying. Also, russia has musketmen, which are pretty tough against XBs without the +% for terrain. I lost a number of XBs and a knight to hubris, I thought her army was gone earlier and made some imprudent advances.

The problem is that artillery is still quite far away. I never got education, so only just captured my first University in Mecca, which will give me a GS in 6 turns together with getting chemistry, but even so I need to tech 5 more techs to get to dynamite which will take me 100 turns or so at current tech speed. Honolulu has a university so that will help a bit, but still I think by the time I get dynamite it'll be too late.



Fortunately, the western approach to Moscow is wide open, so I think I will press on with the southern army, which now has 3 lvl 6 and 2 lvl 5 XBs, and I think most of Russia's army is dead by now, so maybe that will allow me to capture Moscow before she gets rifling.

Constantinople also has annoying terrain, but numerical superiority should probably do ii.

I guess I have either not invested enough in infra, or not conquered fast enough, and am now at the end of my window of opportunity. I only juist built the writer's guild to get through commerce, but I don't think I'm ever going to get into the modern era :)
 
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