LK154 - CCM - Bablyon

LKendter said:

CCM at a lot of features I like. However, I am not sure if garrisons sucking up precious workers, or lack of map trading takes first place for CCM features I don't like.

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There is no map trading in CCM. 31 civs, many of them still existing in the last eras of the game, would trigger tons of mostly useless pop-up windows of maptrading-offers every turn- and that massive loss of time and closing all these useless pop-up windows is a feature I really don´t like.

The next version of CCM has explorers and adventurers. Especially with the setting of the adventurers in early test-games I had a lot of fun, not only with exploring the map, but also with pestering the AI civs - and the AI likes that unit, too.

Garrisons in the next version are switched back to radarstations coming with tech Radio, when (super-) workers can been built normally.

Civinator said:

The next version of CCM has explorers and adventurers.

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Any ETA on the next version?
As you can see we are in the cleanup phase. I don't think we could lose at this point, though it will be at least a month just on how long the turns are getting.

LKendter said:

Any ETA on the next version?
As you can see we are in the cleanup phase. I don't think we could lose at this point, though it will be at least a month just on how long the turns are getting.

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At present no ETA can be said, but now I have more time for modding. After the new findings, I´m now just rewriting the next version of CCM for the third time.

Don't forget conscripting when we are really short on defenders. They make very good 'second defenders' on cities that are unlikely to be attacked by more than one unit or that are not at war (freeing up a real defender). You can also use very low defense enemy unit for a 50% chance of a regular unit if it wins; you lose some but get free regulars that can work well; regulars often get promotions when defending good positions.

I think for military civs, it is 100% chance if it wins to promote.

Size 21 cities can work for this as you don't lose a working square; just a specialist. Of course care has to be taken to not burden a city with unhappiness.

Lurker:

Yes 100% :

militaristic civ vs. non-barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 1
regular to veteran: 1 in 2
veteran to elite: 1 in 4

1820 AD (4)
Heavy Industry is leader rushed in Karlskrona.

Cavalry kills Israel rifle. One of those wandering around finally went to flat land. (110-33)
Lawyer kills pike giving us an artist. (111-33)
Lawyer kills Austrian knight. (112-33)
Lawyer kills Austrian knight. (113-33)
Hussar kills Austrian crusader. (114-33)
Hussar kills Austrian crusader. (115-33)
Hussar of Doom arrives. Tsingtao gets heavy industry rushed. Workers have been busy farming to get it growing faster.
Hussar kills Austrian crusader. (116-33)
Cavalry dies to USA cavalry. (116-34)
Cavalry kills USA cavalry. However, I miss counted an it is exposed. (117-34)

Cavalry kills Mountie. (118-34)
We cross the Canadian border, and are officially at war with Carthage.
Cavalry dies to infantry. (118-35)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (118-36)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (119-36)
It does not feel like I am fighting on flat land with a nearby garrison.
Cavalry barely kills infantry. (120-36)
Cavalry kills infantry. (121-36)
Cavalry kills infantry. (122-36)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (122-37)
Cavalry kills infantry. (123-37)
Cavalry kills infantry. (124-37)
Cavalry kills infantry. (125-37)
That just clears the stack in front of Winnipeg.

Cavalry dies to infantry. (125-38)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (125-39)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (125-40)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (125-41)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (125-42)
Cavalry kills infantry. (126-42)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (126-43)
Cavalry kills infantry. (127-43)
Cavalry kills infantry. (128-43)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (128-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (129-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (130-44)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (131-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (132-44)
We capture Winnipeg and $5,777. We gain Wall Street, and in CCM it isn't that great. 50% more tax revenue is meh is a city that will probably have high corruption. CCM buildings have no cost, so I don't understand the pays for the cost of trade building comments. I also find Copernicus in the city, when we are probably about to turn off science. I culture bomb it, though I still am not sure if the city is worth it.

Cavalry kills infantry. (133-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (134-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (135-44)
Cavalry kills infantry and goes elite. (136-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (137-44)
Cavalry kills infantry. (138-44)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (138-45)
Cavalry kills infantry. (139-45)
Cavalry kills infantry. (140-45)
That clears the area around Winnipeg.

Cavalry kills infantry. (141-45)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (141-46)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (141-47)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (141-48)
Cavalry kills infantry. (142-48)
Cavalry kills infantry. (143-48)
Hussar kills Mountie. (144-48)
Cavalry kills infantry. (145-48)
Cavalry kills infantry. (146-48)
Coastal Cavalry arrives. Malmo gets heavy industry rushed. That should get the city to 1 turn units.
We capture Halifax for $5,984. We capture 2 more settlers.
Halifax is abandoned. Whale of a good time is founded.
(IT) There is very little fighting. We lost 2 cavalry, and a ship, killing a ship. (147-51)

1821 AD (5)
Cavalry kills pike. (148-51)
[End session 5]

Infantry kills infantry. (149-51)
Infantry dies to infantry. (149-52)
Infantry kills infantry. (150-52)
Infantry kills infantry. (151-52)
Cavalry kills infantry. (152-52)
Lee's Cavalry arrives. Electric power is rushed in Karlskrona.
Lawyer kills cavalry giving another artist. (153-52)
Cavalry kills rifle. (154-52)
Cavalry kills rifle. (155-52)
Cavalry kills rifle. (156-52)
Need Armies Cavalry arrived. Electric power is rushed in Cuzco.
Abandon 08 is founded. Abandon 09 is founded.

Cavalry kills infantry. (157-52)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (157-53)
Cavalry kills infantry promoting to elite. (158-53)
Cavalry kills pike promoting to elite. (159-53)
Cavalry kills infantry. (160-53)
Edmonton is captured for $6,336.

Lawyer kills Mongol Keshik. (161-53)
Hussar dies to Austria knight. (161-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (162-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (163-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (164-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (165-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (166-54)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (167-54)
Hussar dies to Austria knight. (167-55)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (168-55)
[End session 6]

(IT) Mongolia lost a Keshik. (169-55)
Austria killed 2 infantry, losing 10 knights and a crusader. (181-57)
USA did nothing, as Austria blocked all their routes.


I am still plugging away - just want to clear some of this very long log. As you can tell, there is a lot of fighting going on.

Reads like you are making progress conquering Canada (and the cannon fodder that signed MPPs with countries at war with us).

Hmmm, who is stupider the Aztec and Dutch for declaring war on us or the civs that recently signed MPPs with countries at war with us.

1822 AD (6)
That annoying Israel rifle finally gets on flat land. It kills an attacking cavalry. A second one wipes it out. (182-58)

Cavalry kills infantry. (183-58)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (183-59)
Cavalry kills rifle. (184-59)
Cavalry kills infantry. (185-59)
Mississauga is captured for $4,501.

Cavalry kills Austria knight. (186-59)
Cavalry kills rifle. (187-59)

Cavalry kills infantry. (188-59)
Cavalry kills rifle. (189-59)
Cavalry dies to infantry. (190-59)
Cavalry kills infantry. (191-59)
Thunder Bay is captured for $5,064.
Thunder Bay is abandoned. Hello Dutch is founded. It gets an immediate Shakespeare play.

Infantry kills stray Aztec fire lancer. (192-59)
[End session 7]

Mullah kills Austria knight giving a monk. (193-59)
Mullah kills Austria knight giving a monk. (194-59)
Mullah kills Austria knight giving a monk. (195-59)
Hussar kills Austria knight. (196-59)
Mullah kills Austria knight giving a monk. (197-59)
Our Mullah had a nice run.
Lawyer kills Austria knight. (198-59)
Lawyer kills Austria knight giving an artist. (199-59)
Lawyer kills Austria knight. (200-59)
Lawyer kills Austria knight giving an artist. (201-59)
Lawyer barely kills Austria knight. (202-59)
It was so nice of them to leave all those 1 HP units by our borders.

Infantry kills pike. (203-59)
Pike Killer arrives. Light industry is rushed in Cuzco.
Infantry kills infantry. (204-59)
Infantry kills infantry. (205-59)
Leader Insanity arrives. Light industry is rushed in Orebo.
Infantry kills infantry. (206-59)
Cavalry kills musket. (207-59)

I can't get to the next Canada city due to the large stack of crap from the Aztecs. The individual units are not a threat, but there are a ton of them. It is time to start whittling away at the stack in reach by fast units.
We kill 36 fire lancer, 9 pike, 23 Cuahchic, and 15 eagle warrior. (290-59)
We lost 2 hussar, and 3 cavalry. (290-64)
Hussar of Fire arrives. Light industry is rushed in Falun.
What is crazy is that stack still scrolls off the screen.
[End session 8]
(IT) Mongolia lost 1 Keshik, and 1 Cannon. (292-64)
Austria lost 2 knights. (294-64)
USA is being a pain and starting to bomb rails near the front.

I shut down science. At this point, I don't know if there is another tech that matters.

Still working away, with hopefully more today, but still want to get this massive log published.

1823 AD (7)
I kill 2 Nubian infantry that landed by Jerusalem, losing 1 cavalry. (296-65)
I kill 1 Israel longbow and 1 musket that landed by Jerusalem, losing a lawyer to the longbow. (298-66)
I kill 1 Austria crusader, and 2 knights. (301-66)
I kill 4 Mongol cavalry, 2 Schneider 75, and 1 heavy artillery losing 1 hussar. We picked up an artist. (308-67)
I kill 2 Aztec eagle warrior. (310-67)
I kill 2 USA rifle, and 2 cavalry. (314-67)
[End session 9]

I kill 1 USA cavalry

There is no action on the main front with Canada due to mass upgrade in progress.
The Hotchkiss upgrade is sucking a lot of cash out of the treasury. A lot of our cities now need heavy industry to hopefully get to 1 turn Hotchkiss.

We get a science leader just as I turned off science.
I click on the beaker symbol, and our great civilization has entered an age of scientific discovery. It saved just one turn off subs in 50% science.
This late in the game I just can't get excited about a supply shipment to the capitol.

Should Indo-China be nervous that I have interest in putting a bunch of rails up to their border?
Infantry kills Aztec Cuahchic. (315-67)
(IT) Mongolia killed our misclicked artillery. (315-68)
Austria lost a knight. (316-68)
Canada killed a worker stack next to Indo-China.
I watched USA get an artist. There zeppelins are still being a pain, but our first biplane defense will start arriving at the front this turn.
Portugal and Egypt sign an MPP.

Montreal flips back to Canada.

1824 AD (8)
Canada lost 4 rifles, we lost 1 infantry. (320-69)
Montreal is recovered giving us $7,132. I get the pain of again having to break resistance.

Canada lost 2 infantry, and 2 rifles. (324-69)
Regina is captured for $5,151. It is so close to the Dutch that is gets culture bombed.

I add Indo-China to the list of people we are at war with. While another enemy is tough, our easiest borders dealing with everyone left on our side is working from Indo-China down.

We kill 3 Indo-China rifles, 1 longbow, losing 1 Hotchkiss. We capture Udong getting $8 and destroy some ships in port. (329-70)

We kill 1 musket, 5 rifles, 1 hussar losing 2 Hotchkiss. (336-72)
We temporary capture Da Nang for $12. TieDye is founded, and gets culture bombed. We found the Aztec stack again.

We kill 1 fire lancer, 4 rifles losing 1 Hotchkiss. We raze Kampong Cham for $8, and 3 workers. (342-72)
Elephant's Tusk is founded.

We kill 2 Austria knights along the choke point. (344-72)

We kill 1 Canada 1 cannon, 1 pike, 1 longbow. We lost 1 infantry. We grabbed 2 new monks. (347-73)

We kill 1 Mongolia Heavy Artillery, 1 cavalry. (349-73)

We kill 2 Nubia rifles that landed by Jerusalem losing 1 Hotchkiss. (351-74)

We kill 3 Indo-China muskets, 1 rifle, 1 hussar losing 2 Hotchkiss, 1 infantry. (356-77)

Cleaning up stray Canadian stuff kills 1 rifle, 1 infantry, 1 pike costing us 1 infantry. (359-78)
(IT) Mongolia lost 1 cavalry. (360-78)
USA lost 5 cavalry, 1 marine infantry, and 3 infantry killing 1 infantry. (369-79)

FYI, the "age of scientific discovery" is bugged. IIRC, it shows fewer turns to complete the next advance, but then it sits at "one turn left" until you reach the advance on the normal schedule

LKendter said:

We gain Wall Street... CCM buildings have no cost, so I don't understand the pays for the cost of trade building comments

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This seem to be remnants of an earlier version of CCM when some buildings still had maintenance costs.

Elephantium said:

FYI, the "age of scientific discovery" is bugged. IIRC, it shows fewer turns to complete the next advance, but then it sits at "one turn left" until you reach the advance on the normal schedule

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Yes, unfortunately Firaxis was not able to fix this error they made. Antal1987 made a correction of that error, but that would need a special treating of the C3C exe and I don´t know, if such an action would be liked by the players as it is not a correction of a biq but of the C3C exe.

Civinator said:

This seem to be remnants of an earlier version of CCM when some buildings still had maintenance costs.

Elephantium said:

FYI, the "age of scientific discovery" is bugged. IIRC, it shows fewer turns to complete the next advance, but then it sits at "one turn left" until you reach the advance on the normal schedule

Click to expand...

Yes, unfortunately Firaxis was not able to fix this error they made. Antal1987 made a correction of that error, but that would need a special treating of the C3C exe and I don´t know, if such an action would be liked by the players as it is not a correction of a biq but of the C3C exe.

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What about mentioning the "bug" in the description? Just knowing it exists is fix enough for me. At least I will not be wondering why something is not happening.

Jersey Joe said:

What about mentioning the "bug" in the description? Just knowing it exists is fix enough for me. At least I will not be wondering why something is not happening.

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Yes, of course I can do that. I thought every civer is aware of this bug.
Here you can read how Antal1987 exactly did describe the bug and how he did the patch for the C3C-exe to solve that problem (that Firaxis was not able to fix).

1825 AD (9)
I find a large stack in the forest by Sara Buri. I am delaying the attack on this city until I see where it moves.

I kill 3 Indo-China rifle losing 4 Hotchkiss. (372-82)
I capture an expensive Ubon Ratchathani gaining $12.

I kill stray Indo-China troops - 1 rifle, 2 hussar, 6 muskets, 1 pike, 3 warrior monks, 1 longbow, 1 cannon, 1 cavalry losing 1 Hotchkiss. (388-83)
We gained 3 great artists.

I kill stray Canada troops - 1 Schiender75, 1 heavy artillery. (390-83)
We gained a monk and great artist.

I kill stray Aztec troops - 4 Cuahchic, 3 Longbow. (397-83)

[End session 10]


I kill stray Indo-China troops - 13 hussar, 2 knight, 10 rifles, 1 marine infantry, 8 cavalry, 8 muskets losing 2 infantry, 5 Hotchkiss. (439-90)

I kill stray Dutch troops - 5 rifles losing 1 Hotchkiss. (444-91)

I kill 3 Indo-China rifles. (447-91)
I temporarily capture Phnom Penh for $19. LeeVille is founded and culture bombed.

I kill 2 Indo-China rifles. (449-91)
I capture Bien Hoa for $13. It gets culture bombed.

I kill 2 rifle, 6 muskets, 2 cannons losing 2 Hotchkiss. (459-92)
I capture Kompong Svay for $14 and 1 worker. The stinking size 1 city gets a resistor.
(IT) USA kills 1 infantry, while losing 4 infantry, 2 cavalry, and a bombard unit. (466-93)

Indo-China kills 1 infantry, 1 Hotchkiss while losing 5 muskets, 1 hussar, 1 marine infantry, 1 cavalry, and 1 rifle. (475-95)

1826 AD (10)
I kill 2 Indo-China rifles. (477-95)
Sara Buri is captured for $0.

Abandon 10 is founded locating yet another Aztec stack.

I kill 3 rifles, losing 2 Hotchkiss. (480-97)
Rangoon is razed for $0 and 5 workers.

I kill 4 rifles, losing 2 Hotchkiss. (484-99)
Hanoi is captured for $0. However, I don't know if Potala Palace is worth the trouble. It gets an immediate culture bomb.

I kill 4 rifles, 1 cavalry, losing 3 Hotchkiss. (489-102)
Angkor is captured for $0 and a worker. Temple of Baalbek is a waste since it goes obsolete with Fuedalism. Hopefully there is a better wonder there.
There is not, so it is abandoned.
LeeTown is founded.

I kill 1 stray Aztec chariot, 1 bombard, 4 meso firelancer, 9 Eagle Warrior, 18 longbow, 1 pike, 11 cuahchic, 5 bombard, and 7 buckets. I lost 1 cavalry, 2 enslaver. (545-105)
Aztec Smacking Cavalry arrives to rush heavy industry in Anyang.
We gained 4 artists, 1 partisan, 1 worker and 1 monk.

I kill 3 stray Indo-China hussar, 2 rifles, 5 muskets, 1 cavalry, and 2 fire lancer. I lost 1 cavalry, 1 Hotchkiss. (555-107)
I captured 1 worker.

I kill 5 stray Dutch rifles, 1 Schneider75, 1 marine infantry. (562-107)

I kill 2 stray Austria knights. (564-107)

I kill 3 stray Mongol cavalry. (567-107)
Cavalry to Tank arrives to rush Tank Factory in LeeVille.
[End session 11]

Most of our cities with 10 to 15 good shields continue to produce workers. We still need a lot more. Now that we are past Canada there are no rails for us. That means a ton of rail building by us to keep up with the front line.
In addition, I have a lot of cities on high to very high food to get to size 20 ASAP. We can't depend on worker merges to hit population max, so we need to mass irrigate, and then flip back to shields. That is a lot of worker turns.
In addition, I have really drained the cash down, so we need to get more cities naturally producing troops.
Once the city goes to shield heavy shortly, we should be able to work to 2 turn Hotchkiss.

This is another reason I mention workers. Lagash is typical of how close more cities are to 1 turn Hotchkiss. It is already 71 shields with being food heavy and 9 tiles needed work. The odds are good for 1 turn units hear. The faster we can produce, the faster this ends.

There are still some minor, and some serious stacks walking around. This nasty one I am waiting to see leave the forest to get better attack odds.
Despite the absurd number of Aztec units I've killed, there are still several stacks walking around.
This is another reason to keep building workers - stacks like this one will justify a garrison to save a few units.