The Deity Challenge Line-up #34 - Egypt

Even with all this discussion, I am not sure where cap should have been ideally. All my plays have been from the hill on the starting screen shot -- but just because that is what I picked first.

I am quite sure Tradition works well for this map. My four cities were so strong, I felt like I could pursue any VC that I liked. So I went for a violent CV since I had never done that before.

It seems like Liberty should be strong too (plenty of luxes and space) but that has not been the case for me. I would very much appreciate it if the wide players' suggestions for expos, and when to work in NC and Petra? I think I am too greedy, as going wide I want both NW, all the Incense, both marbles, and the Dye. Maybe even a spice and gold. Tradition border growth picked up all the incense and both marbles without trouble. So maybe a hybrid approach?
 
None of that could save my Liberty or Piety games. I think I went too wide with all of them. But losing Pyramids really spoils Liberty, and losing DF spoils Piety. Petra is a lock, but the cap is so weak until you get that.

That sucks that Venice stole Desert Folklore - they only had a bit of desert on their 2nd and 3rd ring :rolleyes:
But yeah it is a hard start - not having any forest to chop is a real drag but if you can get past that it's not too bad.
 
T297 Diplomatic Victory

Decided this game was worth a fresh attempt so I gave it another go today. It was a fun game and a comfortable win, albeit not pretty. I'll take the win though.

Spoiler :
I decided to settle my capital on the coast nearer to Constantinople this time... I think this proved to be a good decision as I got a few Grassland tiles to plant Academies on and didn't have to waste perfectly good Flood Plains. Got DF as my pantheon and the 3rd religion, then Theodora sent a GP in my direction, which I let the barbarians capture. If it was a missionary, I would have given it back to her for the diplo boost, but there's no way I'm giving up a free Holy Site that early in the game.

I quickly became friendly with everyone and played nice while I got my cities up and running. Around T170, Dido made a DoF with Theodora, but my Scout saw a rather suspicious formation of Carthaginian siege units moving towards Constantinople. Sure enough, Dido backstabbed Theodora the very next turn, giving me a perfect denouncement target, which everyone joined in on. After that, diplomacy was super easy and I didn't have to worry about anyone attacking me other than Dido. When it came time to choose Ideologies, everyone went Order except for Enrico who went Freedom. By this point, I'd already decided that DV was the path of least resistance, so everyone taking the same ideology was great.
 

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T313 Diplomatic Victory

Spoiler :
Very slow start. I did a 2 city NC in the 100s. Education in 130s. I did a Liberty-Piety mix. Left side Liberty, after that full Piety (To the Glory of God reformation), but opened Honor first since having information on the barb camps was pretty valuable (not to mention the extra culture from barbs). I was lucky with pantheon as I hit a ruin and got DF. The original plan was to do a SS culture victory, but by the time I got reformation I was so behind in science that it seemed impossible, especially since I only managed to get Cathedrals as a building.

After the 2 city NC I built another 7 cities, and conquered Constantinople (which I eventually annexed). The following turns were painfully slow, I still had 2-3 Population cities in T160s, but I figured I did not need science for a Diplomatic Win, just enough culture to get the needed policies.

Early on I build one archer and 4-5 War Chariots to fend barbs. Once I took care of the initial wave, I had a window of opportunity to get Constantinople so I did that. After that I stopped all war and used my small military to fend barbarians. I did not get into any other wars, I was quite lucky since other civs notified me off imminent attacks and I was able to respond with bribes.

Religion wise I had: Desert Folklore, Tithe, Cathedrals, culture from temples, and Messiah. I planted 4-5 Prophets for the extra culture and gold.

I won WF (it was proposed on the first vote), and while having the culture bonus I finished Liberty (GE used for Eiffel Tower) + 3 policies in Patronage.
After that I focused on getting Industrialization + 3 factories, and was first to get Freedom (but I did not manage to build Statue of Liberty). From Freedom I took the happiness level 1 free tenets as I got into ideology pressure form Poland. After that I got Arsenal of Democracy, and then focused on finishing Patronage. After Universities and Colosseum, I just built knights in all cities, and gifted them to CSs until I had all of them Allied. Managed to become Host just before information era, and get Freedom as World Ideology before that.

The huge faith, and reformation belief allowed me bulb to Globalization 1 turn before the first World Leader vote, and with all my spies as diplomats I had 43 out of 40 votes necessary.
 

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nice one :) you join The List :lol:

anyways, when Acken's Mod is alive, if the community decides to start a new series, the AMCL (Acken's Mod Challenge Lineup :lol: ), I'll do the record keeping for the both guys who will be able to finish those modded maps :lol:
 
nice one :) you join The List :lol:

anyways, when Acken's Mod is alive, if the community decides to start a new series, the AMCL (Acken's Mod Challenge Lineup :lol: ), I'll do the record keeping for the both guys who will be able to finish those modded maps :lol:

Has Acken started thread anywhere about the changes in his mod ? If not, then i request it :crazyeye: :mischief:
 
I'm currently making a Deity LP using Acken's Mod as a play test. It's really fun. Differences are subtle but I'm having to adjust my play accordingly. With Acken's permission, I'll publish a link to the LP to any thread he creates, and/or to my own LP thread.
 
I'm fine with that although it's still rough and not even 50% of the first version wanted changes are in.

Has Acken started thread anywhere about the changes in his mod ? If not, then i request it :crazyeye: :mischief:

I'll make a thread when it is ready for a first version. Or I'll make a thread and post changes before release if it takes me more time than expected.
 
Well, that was one ed up game lol. Still, glad it's my first CV in the DCL though it ended in total mayhem as i got multi DOWed pretty late when just reaching influencial on the culture leader, sadly, the 20% to other civs werent enough. Still, i had maybe 10 turns before getting 2 other musicians around T300 and ha dopen borders, so that DOW hurt a lot.

Anyway That was a perfect occasion to discover how helpfull cities that revolt and join you are. Damn, was that a massive amount of insta money selling them back. Even had the time to Nuke the strongest of my enemies 5/6 times lol. I still lost a city when the massive DOW started (west from cap, on the hill right next to the stone) but it didnt affect my tourism by much.

I'll make a more detailled report on monday but even though it was a tough start game, mostly slow, the ending was exciting. Here's the screen for now.

Spoiler :
 
I'm fine with that although it's still rough and not even 50% of the first version wanted changes are in.



I'll make a thread when it is ready for a first version. Or I'll make a thread and post changes before release if it takes me more time than expected.

Cool. Can't wait to find out more about it :goodjob:
 
t316 SV
Spoiler :
This was a pretty fun game for me, basically like playing in a sandbox much of the time (literally!). My only war was with Dido, after she flattened Theo. I took Constantinople from her which had Chichen, Djenne, and SH. I was going to liberate Adrianople on the peninsula but Dido had 4x my military or something crazy. Cas steamrolled Pacal early, and Rammy soon after. It was too easy to bribe Dido and Cas.

I decided to do friendly proposals and shoot them down late game. I lost WF to Poc by 20 hammers, pissed me off, I crushed Intl Games.

I accidentally overshot tech by quite a bit. I tend to burn more GS than I plan when I am so far behind, to get the better late game wonders. Ended up with 13 I built/bought.

Trad open, Honor open, finish Trad, 5 in Liberty, 2 in Rat, eventually 6 in Freedom and finish Rat and Liberty, and Commerce open for cheaper SS parts. I was so far behind 2/3 of the game it was silly. My religion did well - DF, Tithe, Holy Warriors, Sword/plows, and Rel Texts. HW really helped to take out the barbs.

My capital did not have much food, I settled next to Sinai, so not very many river tiles. I ran tons of food to Thebes, so gpt was low until I got extra TRs.

 

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This has to be one of my slower SV on the higher difficulty levels.
Originally planned for CV, but was too slow on tech and started to focus on SV midgame.

Spoiler :

Moved settler north along the Nile to settle on the coast. (I didn't know the coast there isn't connected with the rest of the Mediterranean Sea)
Nevertheless it provided TR to Theo which helped my early beakers.
Decided to try the Honor opener + liberty approach due to raging barbs. I think it works quite well.
Got DF pantheon T40ish
Founded 5th city around T75 which was very slow due to having to raise an army to protect my settlers.
NC as soon as I raised enough gold to buy the last library. Then finished Petra in cap at T115. Settled 2 more cities further east post NC. In hindsight, I think it is much quicker to go 2 city NC + petra then settle new cities. There was no competition in Africa until later on when Poca goes south. I had to block Poca from settling the spot for my 7th city until my settler got there.
Also part of the problem was slow science. It was Theo who blocked the way into Europe, so I never met most of the other civs/CS until much later after I can swim the scouts across. Every scouts I sent east had died to barb.

Machu Picchu at T166, I'm pretty sure none bother with it as it was super late.
T225 PT
Adopted Freedom and built SoL at T254. Got T291 Big ben. I was down to -20ish happiness from idoeology pressure and had to pray my city don't get flipped while i rushed happiness buildings.
Apollo at T300, Hubble T301 with GE then bought all the SS parts within the next 2 turns.

SP was 5 liberty, honor opener, 5 rationalism, 2 commerce, 5 aesthetics, 6 freedom.
Never needed aesthetics but I intended to go CV earlier but lost on all important wonders. The only CV related one I got was Eiffel Tower.

Had to bribe Poca entire game to keep him off me. In the end everyone was wiped out except for 4 civs Poland, Shoshone, Carthage and myself. All the AI civs was involved in a world war at the end also.

 

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T206 Domination

My apologies for the essay. I haven't had much time recently so this game took 2 weeks of on and off play to complete.

Spoiler :
I enjoyed the Europe setup, as it made for a nice change and was random enough to provide a few surprises too.

This was my second attempt. First time round I went full Honour and teched for Education, which meant that all of my money went on desert hills and Byzantium became too strong to make it a quick war. The choke point was nasty. I quit on about turn 110 and hadn't scouted the map.

Second time round I took Tradition before opening Honour and had to buy very few tiles. Also worth noting is that they were cheaper to buy when the city was acquiring them more readily. I think that the tradition opener is very important for hilly starts, especially desert/tundra ones.

It must be said that I got dream ruins at the start; culture, pop, upgrade, tech, faith. It really snowballed my early game, which was by far the hardest thing about this map. Looking at you raging barbarians.

One worker I stole of Byzantium very early on. I hard built a second and found 2 others in barb camps before my 3 city NC was out on turn 84 [Picture 1]. Except the one to Constantinople my trade routes were all food until about turn 120-130. Wonder-wise I built Petra on turn 93 and Maccu Picchu directly afterwards. Memphis was a pretty weak city at the start so I bought a Workshop asap to enable the Ironworks earlier in my cap.

I farmed 2 barb camps solidly for about 130 turns, pumping out culture and gold until the real wars started. It's a tedious strategy but it works. I considered a Composite rush on Byzantium, but decided against it because:
- Early barbs were still a real problem.
- Cataphracts annihilate Composites.
- Constantinople wasn't a good enough city to annex and use. Taking it later was fine.

Army:

By the time I rushed Byzantium most of my units (6 Xbow, 2 Warrior, 2 gifted Catapults) had 30xp. I opted for an Xbow rush when I hit Machinery on turn 107 [Picture 2]. I then farmed xp off Nicaea for the next 30 turns; this also kept me at war with Byzantium and avoided a denouncement. After taking Constantinople I also swam a worker out to the Shoshone's borders and pre built a road back west to Carthage's mainland cities.

The xp farming ended when Dido declared war on me around turn 140. I was about to do it to her anyway so it was perfect timing. She came with lots of units but they were no match for crossbows since some had logistics by that point. I was able to take my time with her 3 cities here [Picture 3], deciding that I needed at least Cavalry to attack Pocatello. Peace with Dido was worth 40GPT.

I almost did the game without a reload but... I mistimed Oxford for Dynamite. I forgot the GS was coming and got Dynamite 8 turns later than I could have. I needed to begin the war on that turn and cannons would have been destroyed by Comanche Riders.

I hit Artis on turn 175 and took out 3 of Pocatello's cities (Lampang, Ragusa, Hekandeka) before he could react; the road really helped [Picture 4]. Although his army was big at almost 300k he was warring Siam, Poland and Venice and I didn't see many units until Agaidika. Comanche Riders are nasty and I lost a few Cav when blocking for my Artis, especially around Moson Kahni. It eventually fell on turn 191 [Picture 5] and exchanged hands a couple of times, which lessened the happiness hit. I then peaced about for a lump sum of 3500 gold. Most of my army went north to Poland, with a couple staying behind to defend in case of another DOW from the Shoshone.

Poland's lands were full of rough terrain, but luckily Warsaw was not that far from Palenque (which I got off the Shoshone just before I took their cap; the Maya were dead by that point) and a lot of his units were battling 2 of my CSs down south. I expected Winged Hussars to cause more of a problem, but in rough terrain they're not much better than normal Lancers. Even though lots of his WHs had Blitz they weren't too damaging. Warsaw fell before all of his army reached me [Picture 6].

For Venice I ran 4 Artis and 5 Cav through the eastern desert, sending them out on about turn 180. After his war with Pocatello (which I instigated for a measly 2 Iron) he only had a 50k army score. That's the problem with Venice as an AI; it's like I had 6.5 enemies as Venice is so weak [Picture 7]. Venice is really easy to befriend and leech gold off too. Had there been a different AI in it's place, most of the desert to the south would have been colonised, and my strategy would have had to have been completely different.

Navy:

Heliopolis had built 6 Galleasses for when I teched to Navigation after Dynamite. Dido had an impressive navy, so after taking her cities in the way of my Shoshone assault, I made peace and bribed her to attack Siam. She eventually took his cap, losing a lot of her naval power in the process. This also made it simple to retake it [Picture 8].

A flotilla of 6 Frigates and 2 Privateers was easily enough to deal with the rest of her navy, and by the time she got Ironclads at the end of the game it was too late. There was a lot of space for my land army to the east of Carthage and it went down quickly [Picture 9].

I took Carthage, Venice and Warsaw on turn 206 to complete the map. From about turn 170 my cities were on full production + slow starvation mode. Heliopolis accidentally starved a little at the end, oops [Picture 10].

Other:

I stole Education on about turn 125, having gone for Machinery first. After that I got Printing Press, then focused on CSs with my spies. The 4 CSs near to me and Byzantium were a priority and I had to spend money on the northern 2 before DOWing the Shoshone.

One +2 sight scout revealed the entire map except Carthage by the end, what a hero.

At around turn 125 I signed research agreements with Siam, the Maya and Poland. The Maya died before it went off...

Key techs: Philosophy ---> Currency ---> Guilds ---> Machinery ---> Education (stolen) ---> Astronomy ---> Chemistry --(2 GS bulbs)-> Dynamite (Oxford) ---> Navigation ---> Industrialisation ---> Rifling.

Social Policies: Tradition 1, Honour 6, Commerce 6, Exploration 2.

No Autocracy. With Honour/Commerce, city conquests and pillaging, I was able to buy a unit per turn in the cap (had Heroic Epic) anyway. I hate the happiness hit from Ideology pressure and have recently been avoiding them.

Religion: Desert Faith, Tithe, Pagodas, Production%, Stronger Prophets.
 

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T206 Domination

My apologies for the essay. I haven't had much time recently so this game took 2 weeks of on and off play to complete.

Spoiler :
I enjoyed the Europe setup, as it made for a nice change and was random enough to provide a few surprises too.

This was my second attempt. First time round I went full Honour and teched for Education, which meant that all of my money went on desert hills and Byzantium became too strong to make it a quick war. The choke point was nasty. I quit on about turn 110 and hadn't scouted the map.

Second time round I took Tradition before opening Honour and had to buy very few tiles. Also worth noting is that they were cheaper to buy when the city was acquiring them more readily. I think that the tradition opener is very important for hilly starts, especially desert/tundra ones.

It must be said that I got dream ruins at the start; culture, pop, upgrade, tech, faith. It really snowballed my early game, which was by far the hardest thing about this map. Looking at you raging barbarians.

One worker I stole of Byzantium very early on. I hard built a second and found 2 others in barb camps before my 3 city NC was out on turn 84 [Picture 1]. Except the one to Constantinople my trade routes were all food until about turn 120-130. Wonder-wise I built Petra on turn 93 and Maccu Picchu directly afterwards. Memphis was a pretty weak city at the start so I bought a Workshop asap to enable the Ironworks earlier in my cap.

I farmed 2 barb camps solidly for about 130 turns, pumping out culture and gold until the real wars started. It's a tedious strategy but it works. I considered a Composite rush on Byzantium, but decided against it because:
- Early barbs were still a real problem.
- Cataphracts annihilate Composites.
- Constantinople wasn't a good enough city to annex and use. Taking it later was fine.

Army:

By the time I rushed Byzantium most of my units (6 Xbow, 2 Warrior, 2 gifted Catapults) had 30xp. I opted for an Xbow rush when I hit Machinery on turn 107 [Picture 2]. I then farmed xp off Nicaea for the next 30 turns; this also kept me at war with Byzantium and avoided a denouncement. After taking Constantinople I also swam a worker out to the Shoshone's borders and pre built a road back west to Carthage's mainland cities.

The xp farming ended when Dido declared war on me around turn 140. I was about to do it to her anyway so it was perfect timing. She came with lots of units but they were no match for crossbows since some had logistics by that point. I was able to take my time with her 3 cities here [Picture 3], deciding that I needed at least Cavalry to attack Pocatello. Peace with Dido was worth 40GPT.

I almost did the game without a reload but... I mistimed Oxford for Dynamite. I forgot the GS was coming and got Dynamite 8 turns later than I could have. I needed to begin the war on that turn and cannons would have been destroyed by Comanche Riders.

I hit Artis on turn 175 and took out 3 of Pocatello's cities (Lampang, Ragusa, Hekandeka) before he could react; the road really helped [Picture 4]. Although his army was big at almost 300k he was warring Siam, Poland and Venice and I didn't see many units until Agaidika. Comanche Riders are nasty and I lost a few Cav when blocking for my Artis, especially around Moson Kahni. It eventually fell on turn 191 [Picture 5] and exchanged hands a couple of times, which lessened the happiness hit. I then peaced about for a lump sum of 3500 gold. Most of my army went north to Poland, with a couple staying behind to defend in case of another DOW from the Shoshone.

Poland's lands were full of rough terrain, but luckily Warsaw was not that far from Palenque (which I got off the Shoshone just before I took their cap; the Maya were dead by that point) and a lot of his units were battling 2 of my CSs down south. I expected Winged Hussars to cause more of a problem, but in rough terrain they're not much better than normal Lancers. Even though lots of his WHs had Blitz they weren't too damaging. Warsaw fell before all of his army reached me [Picture 6].

For Venice I ran 4 Artis and 5 Cav through the eastern desert, sending them out on about turn 180. After his war with Pocatello (which I instigated for a measly 2 Iron) he only had a 50k army score. That's the problem with Venice as an AI; it's like I had 6.5 enemies as Venice is so weak [Picture 7]. Venice is really easy to befriend and leech gold off too. Had there been a different AI in it's place, most of the desert to the south would have been colonised, and my strategy would have had to have been completely different.

Navy:

Heliopolis had built 6 Galleasses for when I teched to Navigation after Dynamite. Dido had an impressive navy, so after taking her cities in the way of my Shoshone assault, I made peace and bribed her to attack Siam. She eventually took his cap, losing a lot of her naval power in the process. This also made it simple to retake it [Picture 8].

A flotilla of 6 Frigates and 2 Privateers was easily enough to deal with the rest of her navy, and by the time she got Ironclads at the end of the game it was too late. There was a lot of space for my land army to the east of Carthage and it went down quickly [Picture 9].

I took Carthage, Venice and Warsaw on turn 206 to complete the map. From about turn 170 my cities were on full production + slow starvation mode. Heliopolis accidentally starved a little at the end, oops [Picture 10].

Other:

I stole Education on about turn 125, having gone for Machinery first. After that I got Printing Press, then focused on CSs with my spies. The 4 CSs near to me and Byzantium were a priority and I had to spend money on the northern 2 before DOWing the Shoshone.

One +2 sight scout revealed the entire map except Carthage by the end, what a hero.

At around turn 125 I signed research agreements with Siam, the Maya and Poland. The Maya died before it went off...

Key techs: Philosophy ---> Currency ---> Guilds ---> Machinery ---> Education (stolen) ---> Astronomy ---> Chemistry --(2 GS bulbs)-> Dynamite (Oxford) ---> Navigation ---> Industrialisation ---> Rifling.

Social Policies: Tradition 1, Honour 6, Commerce 6, Exploration 2.

No Autocracy. With Honour/Commerce, city conquests and pillaging, I was able to buy a unit per turn in the cap (had Heroic Epic) anyway. I hate the happiness hit from Ideology pressure and have recently been avoiding them.

Religion: Desert Faith, Tithe, Pagodas, Production%, Stronger Prophets.

Nice one ! I guess raging barbs were indeed enough of a reason to go for a domination as they can justify opening honor even for playing peacefully. But hey, i needed my cultural one (even though it ended as a cultural DomV lol)
 
Kind of rusty apparently. I have finally been able to deal with barbs effectively enough not to hinder my expansion and I even managed to finish NC on reasonable enough time. Hopefully there won't be a huge mountain to climb and I can finish somewhere around 300.
 

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@cazaderonus: Thanks. I'm definitely an advocate for opening honour on this map since 4 camps were sending barbs at my cities by about turn 20. In my game it paid for itself in culture, as I farmed them for most of the game and got perhaps 2k barb culture + 1.5k honour barb gold with the finisher+camp gold. However I always fill honour so no difference there :)
 
@cazaderonus: Thanks. I'm definitely an advocate for opening honour on this map since 4 camps were sending barbs at my cities by about turn 20. In my game it paid for itself in culture, as I farmed them for most of the game and got perhaps 2k barb culture + 1.5k honour barb gold with the finisher+camp gold. However I always fill honour so no difference there :)

I'm wishing that I tallied up the total amount of culture I got from barbs over this game - it would help to settle this whole argument about whether the Honor opener is worthwhile.
I do think that if you get a Culture ruin early you're better of picking Tradition opener first so at least you can get border growth going in your cap. The Honor opener won't be delayed for long and it tends to become more valuable as the game progresses - early on there aren't that many barbs to make it worthwhile and you don't have any units to farm them...
 
I'm wishing that I tallied up the total amount of culture I got from barbs over this game - it would help to settle this whole argument about whether the Honor opener is worthwhile.
I do think that if you get a Culture ruin early you're better of picking Tradition opener first so at least you can get border growth going in your cap. The Honor opener won't be delayed for long and it tends to become more valuable as the game progresses - early on there aren't that many barbs to make it worthwhile and you don't have any units to farm them...

Well, it remains tied to having raging barbs on. WIth regular barbs you wont make up for a late 2k policies, that's for sure.

And even then, when i tried this DCL with the honor opener, i find it slowed me too much on the liberty finisher to go for my cultural victory. And i couldnt farm my barb camps as stupid neighboor decided to hunt them down around T100. So i started from scratch going full liberty.
 
Well, it remains tied to having raging barbs on. WIth regular barbs you wont make up for a late 2k policies, that's for sure.

And even then, when i tried this DCL with the honor opener, i find it slowed me too much on the liberty finisher to go for my cultural victory. And i couldnt farm my barb camps as stupid neighboor decided to hunt them down around T100. So i started from scratch going full liberty.

Ahhh well I didn't quite have that problem, I settled the hill further North and with Tradition my city quickly sealed of the peninsula leaving the barbs to me - until every AI decides to send scouts from the other side which blocks any fog of war so I had fewer and fewer barb camps as the game went on. Still I reckon I got around 2000 culture. It's not just making up a late game policy it also speeds up the policies quite notably.
 
If I get around to finishing this with the Tradition approach, I will get around to experiment with Liberty + Honor opener. Happiness may be an issue but hoping for the best
 
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