Honorable Victory SG

This is a Succession Game where you must play honorably, within these rules (copied from the Realms Beyond Epic 18)

Every civ has a right to defend itself. A just war is one in which you are not the aggressor. If any civ attacks you unprovoked, you are entitled to remain at war with them and to take retaliatory action upon their units and lands for as long as you wish, up to and including their unconditional surrender. (You may conquer that civ if you please. This is known as the "You Have Chosen Unwisely"™ rule!)
You are not allowed to run Slavery, Theocracy, or Police State civics. You must adopt Emancipation (and stay there) once you have the option.
You are allowed to refuse tribute demands. You are not allowed to issue demands of your own.
You are allowed to sign Defense Pacts.
If a friendly civ requests your aid in time of war, you are allowed to join them in the war.
If you joined an ally in a war, and they have made peace with the enemy, then you must also make peace with that enemy if the enemy requests peace (unless they are demanding compensation for peace -- you do not ever have to submit to tribute demands.)
You may not choose to raze a captured city that the game would allow you to keep. (This includes barbarian cities!)
Giving away captured cities is only honorable if they are given to an ally who owned them when the war began. (If you "liberate" an ally's city, you MUST offer to give it back!)
You must do all in your power (within reason) to feed the people under your care. No forced starvation!
Your Spies are only allowed to observe or conduct counter-espionage, not to sabotage or carry out other aggressive missions.
Pillaging land improvements in neutral territory, to deny them to a rival or enemy, is dastardly. No bandits on the highways, please.
You are not allowed to fire first with nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons may only be used honorably in retaliation vs a civ who has launched a "First Strike" nuclear attack, and then only with a "proportional response": you may honorably return fire with as many shots as were launched by the enemy, but no more.

The civ:



The start:



The settings:



Looking for about five people who normally play Noble-Monarch. Good luck! And remember to play honorably!

Do AIs ever request peace?

I personally don't believe I have ever had a diplo popup from a civ I was at war with. Perhaps they assume I'm "refusing to talk". BUG tells me they will make peace, but they never explicitly offer it in my (limited outside of C2C) experience.

Of course I could be mistaken, in fact I hope I am.

I've gotten peace offers. They key is they must feel you are kicking them badly.

LKendter said:

I've gotten peace offers. They key is they must feel you are kicking them badly.

Click to expand...

Thanks good to know. Nevertheless I suggest to the OP that it might be sufficiently honourable to take peace/capitulation when it is available on the diplo screen, and somewhat too much of a limitation (maybe even less honourable) to wait for them to offer it explicitly.

Looks fun. But as I play beyond monarch I will need to sit it out.

But I look forward to follow the game.

This game is really awesome and very interesting to play. As you are now following this game, you will now get the notifications about the latest updates of the game.
----------------
visual effects in New York

I'd join. Sounds like my normal playstyle

Alrighty then ... let's see if we can't breathe life into this one!

Please note TheSunIsDark's variant rules in the opening post. No save game was supplied, so I've rolled a completely fresh map.

• Philosophical: +100% birth rate, double production speed for Universities.
• Protective: Free City Garrison I and Drill I promotion for Archery and Gunpowder units, +100% for Wall and Castle production.
• Vulture (Sumerian): Axeman replacement. 6 (compared to 5) and +25% vs. Melee (compared to +50% vs. Melee).
• Ziggurat (Sumerian): Courthouse replacement (90 compared to 120 for a Courthouse) and available at Priesthood (not Code of Laws).
• Agriculture and The Wheel.

The Set Up:

A few changes to TheSunIsDark's set-up as outlined in the opening post:

• The difficulty has been bumped from Prince to Monarch.
• The game speed has been changed from Epic to Normal.
• Personalities have been randomised but leaders and tribes have been predetermined.
• (Random events and goodie huts / tribal villages are 'in').

The Start:


Civilizations:

As noted, the civilizations (and leaders) have been predetermined to fit a North American colonization theme, however personalities have been randomised. It's possible to guess with some accuracy during the course of the game who-is-who on the basis of favourite civics, diplomatic modifiers, and general aggressiveness.

'The Apache' will be led by Geronimo. This tribe is 'Native America' with a changed name just to add some 'colour' and help differentiate it from our tribe who is also led by 'Sitting Bull'.


Roster:

Can I play please .

You might need to define provocation in the first rule.

Looks fun Cam, but I won't sign up as I can already hardly keep up with the SGOTM that just started. I'll lurk if you get this going.

Hey Pigswill and Nocho!

Pigswill ... thanks for signing on ... your guess is as good as mine re "provocation"! Let's make up the rules as we go.

Nocho ... never too late! lol ... Always pleased to get your opinion and help when you can offer it! Best of luck with the SGOTM, and you'll always be welcome if you want another 'distraction'.

Initial thoughts:

I feel that this game will be a lot about getting the foothold we need - namely a decent number of cities (five or six) - as a priority. Without the use of Slavery and not being an Imperialistic leader, we might have to hope for a little luck with available land; our first cities somewhat far-flung with the view to back filling perhaps? Using religious difference to taunt a neighbour into a early-game DoW could work, but 'again' with no Slavery, Vulture-rushing might be tough. In terms of tech' I can see Bronze Working being (as usual) a highly desirable tech' for most of the usual reasons, but the ability to chop forests to speed production of units will be important. Hopefully some luck with goodie huts and no Barbarian Uprising events would be nice.

DrZomboss - I'm not sure if we need to delay too long. I'd be fine with SiP > Worker while the Warrior looks for huts and food-rich prospective sites for future cities.

Happy to get feedback / views from the roster.

Folket's joined up, but will be unavailable for about four weeks. Welcome!

Disclaimer ... I'm very 'rusty' with my Civ4 ... please forgive comments!

I will play my turn tomorrow if that's ok with you.

Sure.

Will you SiP or snoop around?

Starting tech?

I'm not sure of your usual approach, but I tend to scout in an outward spiral 'type movement'. I've had SGs where the first player has made a direct line straight into the ice which has done "f.a." (not a lot) in terms of finding prospective city sites.

[Edit]

I must admit that I like SiP.

I can see settling on Bananas with another city going far west so they can co-work cottages along the river. One, if not a few dead coastal tiles to the north for the capital though with this.

If the Warrior goes one tile west, he might spot coastal seafood, which makes two tiles west of the Settler a possibility.

Just some options, although I'm sure not the only ones.

In terms of tech', I think there's a case for Mining > Bronze contingent on the decision on whether we settle coastal (seafood) or inland.

[/Edit]

Cam is back! Good to see you. Not sure how much I can be involved, but I will certainly look in. SGOTM keeps me pretty busy right now.

I'd normally be inclined to settle on that banana, but the coast makes that prohibitive. SIP seems fine.

Wow...lotsa rules here and basically all the complete opposite of how I play..ha

Rule 1 is a bit vague. Not sure if it is trying to say we can never declare war or not. Not sure "provoking" an AI is really relevant, although I guess there are ways to make a DOW more likely , but the rule doesn't describe the alternative. Anyway, Rule needs clarification and simplification.

lymond said:

Wow...lotsa rules here and basically all the complete opposite of how I play..ha

Rule 1 is a bit vague. Not sure if it is trying to say we can never declare war or not. Not sure "provoking" an AI is really relevant, although I guess there are ways to make a DOW more likely , but the rule doesn't describe the alternative. Anyway, Rule needs clarification and simplification.

Click to expand...

Hi lymond! Thanks for your thoughts and good to hear from you!

'Yeah' - no Slavery and no Starvation in itself is a foreign approach for me, let alone all the other stuff!

The way I read it, despite the best efforts to put forward an 'honourable' ruleset, bribing one AI to beat up your neighbour and then hoping that they'll consequently invite you to join in seems to be a legitimate and yet an anything-but-honourable strategy.

I'm happy to discuss it further, but I'm also happy to go with a fairly 'lean' interpretation of what "unprovoked" means, being; no direct demands and no direct DoWs.

For instance, I think that supporting or even proposing an Apostolic Palace motion to go to war with some heathen tribe would not necessarily be seen as "provocative".

Lurk Mode = On (again), looks like moving forward this time.

So, here it is! Played the first 30 turns, researched mining, bronze working and almost completed AH. Built a worker, a warrior (we don't want to leave the city unprotected) and started building a settler. Lurked a little around with the warrior and got on goody hut who gave me a map. Met Willem and Victoria. That is basically it.

Got it.

How many turns?

Willem to south east and imperialistic Vicky to north east: looks like a box set .

New warrior(s) back to check out local area, check out nearby coastal tiles. Keep exporing to find more honourable friends.

Maybe grow to pop 5 before spamming unwhipped settlers and workers.

Tech wise maybe AH>writing>alphabet and hope to backfill through trade.

Thanks for the turnset.

Pigswill - please un-automate the Worker. DrZomboss - please do not automate Workers.

The first turnset should have been 20, but I guess 30's OK. Pigswill, please play between 10 and 20.

Scouting out the double Gems for more food seems like a good suggestion to me.

I think that contingent on what happens with Horses, that the Worker should start chopping. Irrigating the Bananas would work too.

I am happy with Alphabet bee-line. I must admit that I often just go straight for Bronze Working and Pottery as a matter of course, but Alphabet with back-fill seems sensible given no Granary whip-regrow tactics. I'd like to bang down some Cottages, but I guess we can't have everything!

While I agree that getting to the happy-cap would be good, we've got few good-developed tiles to work, especially if we're using the Worker for chops rather than tile-development.

Best of luck.

Coupla comments:

1) so much for opening discussions

2) Pottery would have been so much better here...in fact I might have teched it before BW...Gilgs starting techs make this a good play with right land.

I see no purpose for AH right now

3) 2nd Warrior should be outside the city. No reason for a unit in city this early, especially on this level. He could unfog that bit to the south to make sure no seafood and then spawnbust.

If no seafood down there, the PH b/w ivory and wheat looks pretty good for city (only glanced quickly at that)