HOF III November/December Gauntlet

Tone · Nov 10, 2009, 08:05 PM

I know that we have a few days to go with the current gauntlet but I thought that I'd try to be on the ball and get the next one ready for the mid-month start.

Does anyone care to lay down the gauntlet for the next competition? Please state the level/mapsize/VC that you wish to play and if your challenge is accepted by another player it will become our next gauntlet.

So AT has picked up the gauntlet laid down by Spoonwood.

Level: Demi-God
Mapsize: Small
Victory Condition: Spaceship

Please submit your games by December 15th. Good luck to all competitors.

Spoonwood · Nov 10, 2009, 10:34 PM

I believe we discussed small, demi-god, spaceship in the Oct/Nov gauntlet thread. I like that idea, but I've started into a Huge Histo game, so if someone has a better idea, I certainly won't feel offended.

AutomatedTeller · Nov 12, 2009, 11:35 AM

I'll play a small demigod spaceship. More violence than a diplo game!!

del62 · Nov 13, 2009, 12:49 AM

Which tribes would you recommend for a small demo spaceship, and which settings?

Any overall stratergies?

Tone · Nov 13, 2009, 08:21 AM

@del62: I'd set up a game with maximum civs-all scientific. I used to like Russia for the contacts and hut popping but on the higher levels I now prefer Sumeria for the Agri trait. I'd play against Greece, Persia, Ottomans, Germany and Korea. This gives all techs available for trade except CB, which I'd research for an SGL opportunity.

60% pangea wet will give plenty of room for settling and trading so the tech pace should be high enough. Personally I wouldn't have barbs on so that my SGL opportunities are not reduced. The early builds will try to gain contacts quickly, hoping to trade for Alphabet et al getting onto Writing and the Republic slingshot asap. Avoid trading writing for as long as possible, keeping an eye out with civs to detect when they are getting close to discovering it so that you can get good value for the trade.

Spoonwood · Nov 13, 2009, 10:47 AM

warm, wet/normal, 5 billion, 60% pangea, play as Sumeria or Ottomans (not Persia, as immortals probably won't prove as potentially useful as the Sipahi). Play with Germany, Sumeria, Ottomans, Persia, Russia, and Babylon as your opponents and research Alphabet first for the SGL opportunity. Or play as Greece or Korea and delete whoever you choose. I'd recommend having at least 5 foodin despotism and a river in your capital before starting.

AutomatedTeller · Nov 13, 2009, 01:47 PM

All scientific, yes.

Pangea will give the best time, arch will be safest. I'd go pangea.

Russia will help you get throw the AA fast and will probably give you an extra settler or town or two.
Sumeria will help you expand fast, both early and late.
Ottoman and Persia will get your land improved really fast.
Greece and Korea will get more money from your land.

Byzantium, Germany and Babylon are really the ones that aren't all that useful.

Spoonwood · Nov 13, 2009, 07:20 PM

Babylon has a shorter revolution, and potentially can have more than one revolution. I do BELIEVE along with AT and Tone I would guess, that 2 turns to The Republic vs. 6 turns to The Republic generally gets nullified by the other advantages AT listed, but it's not necessarily proven, and we could all have got this one wrong.

AutomatedTeller · Nov 14, 2009, 01:00 AM

the shorter revolution is important - but then, you can get a fair amount of science done with scientists even during a revolution.

I might make my first shot at this Germany. See if the fast barracks and early leaders make expansion through war easier. Nice thing about demi-god is that the AI will expand for you.

del62 · Nov 14, 2009, 06:10 AM

What about playing with say Mayans or Iriqois surrounded by scientific civs, for their agricultural and either industial / commercial strenghts

AutomatedTeller · Nov 14, 2009, 08:37 AM

might be a fun game. Will almost certainly end after the scientific civs, for 2 reasons:

1) Libs and unis will take a much longer time to be built
2) You will miss out on a potential 3 free techs, maybe more (in the IA and MT, you often have to promise most of your economy to get the free techs from the AI and you pay them back with your free tech - if you can't get a free tech, you can't really afford to buy theirs. Sometimes, you can get it with the next tech you research, though, so it doesn't matter all that much.

del62 · Nov 14, 2009, 10:36 AM

I expect you right, anyway I tried with the Iriqois and it all went horribly wrong halfway through the industrial age, when I lost out on theory of evo by 6 turns, and then the ottomans despite having always had good relations just declared on me.

I think the main problem I had though was a lack of resources.

Spoonwood · Dec 09, 2009, 07:46 PM

I played one with Sumeria where I got an SGL on Alphabet. I also had a cow and game in my inital city radius, as well two wheats in the first ring. So, I grabbed a slew of terrritory. But, even though I could buy 3 techs in each era, no one got Computers in the modern era, I got optionals as my free tech. I also had happiness problems, as I could only get 5 luxuries with trades, and I didn't have saltpeter, so war in the industrial age would have come as problematic, and I thought the money better spent on temples and cathedrals. But, of course that meant I needed the luxury slider longer. The map had a large island with luxuries on it, so overall a bad map, in my opinion. Also, even though I thought I gifted the AIs Electricity early enough for them to get me RP, after Combustion I didn't research Flight, and researched all of RP myself. They did get me Synthetic Fibers. Germany declared on me during the last two turns, but that didn't affect anything. I finished in 1230 and any more details don't come as worthwhile, as even though it appeared like a promising game, it ended up disappointing in the end.

del62 · Dec 10, 2009, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonwood

I it ended up disappointing in the end.

A 1230 finish to spaceship on this level is hardly dissapointing.

In fact isnt it the fastest finish on this level.

Spoonwood · Dec 10, 2009, 06:21 AM

For a small map, yes. But, I have an 1120 finish on a standard map (and no Pyramids there), I got NO worthwhile free techs, I used the luxury slider in the industrial age, and I felt that I played a bit sloppy. Thanks though.

Tone · Dec 14, 2009, 03:07 AM

I thought that I had time for one try at this but it looks like I won't be able to finish it before the deadline. I'm not sure how good it will be. No SGL so no Pyramids.

I played as Greece against the non-alphabet/CB scientific civs. I wanted to make sure that I could get the Republic slingshot, but maybe I should have been bolder. The extra food with Sumeria would have been pretty handy.

The tech pace was reasonably good up until the end of the Middle Ages, when the AIs got sidetracked with optionals. Before this they provided me with Invention, Gunpowder and Astronomy but no one went for Magnetism until I had one turn left until IA. I got Sanitation for my freebie, which meant that my rivals spent the whole time going for the government techs. The only non-optional they've got since is Rep Parts and I've just started Flight as the final tech. Maybe I'm taking too much cash from them.

Persia declared on me when my army consisted of 3 cavs and 8 warriors and so I got the AI to dogpile them. I'm really out of practice in this type of game. I took a couple of their border towns and then left them alone but they got wiped out before the alliances ran out so it's going to make the entry into Modern Times difficult. The War Fever was useful as I also only had 5 luxes. I might have to start another war to open up some more lux trade opportunities. I'm lacking horses and oil though so I'll have to be careful that I don't have my trade routes cut.

If I complete the game I'll post here again with my key dates.

CKS · Dec 14, 2009, 11:49 AM

I'm almost certainly not going to finish this one. My current game is going to require significant warring to keep from losing via domination, and I won't have that much time. It has been interesting, but I'm still pretty uncomfortable at demigod.

Tone · Dec 17, 2009, 07:39 AM

Time's up for this one. Spoonwood takes the gold medal.

Tone · Dec 31, 2009, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tone

If I complete the game I'll post here again with my key dates.

I've just got back from a short break back home in the UK and managed to find a few hours to finish this.

Despite losing Persia in the IA, the entry into MT wasn't too bad. I got there in 770AD. The AIs got three techs and I got the fourth. I soon kicked off my GA when I built the UN.

The AI were not too helpful so I did decide to war a little more to get some more specialist farms. I declared on Germany, knowing that Russia would declare on me through their MPP. Both had cities on my borders that proved very useful, saving me a turn or two. Maybe I should have done this a bit earlier. This also opened up some trading opportunities and so I ended up with seven luxes.

Tech wise I only got Synth Fibres, plus a turn saved on Satellites when the Ottomans got there just before me. I'd held back an MGL to rush the last part, but my prebuild on the last SS part was advanced enough not to bother. My complete research path is on the Excel attached below in case anyone is interested. I never did get an SGL.

Final date: 1130AD

Spoonwood · Dec 31, 2009, 06:11 AM

Nice game Tone.

Nov 10, 2009, 08:05 PM	#1
Tone Deity Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,533	HOF III November/December Gauntlet I know that we have a few days to go with the current gauntlet but I thought that I'd try to be on the ball and get the next one ready for the mid-month start. Does anyone care to lay down the gauntlet for the next competition? Please state the level/mapsize/VC that you wish to play and if your challenge is accepted by another player it will become our next gauntlet. So AT has picked up the gauntlet laid down by Spoonwood. Level: Demi-God Mapsize: Small Victory Condition: Spaceship Please submit your games by December 15th. Good luck to all competitors. __________________ Avatar by Mistfit Last edited by Tone; Nov 13, 2009 at 08:04 AM.

Nov 12, 2009, 11:35 AM	#3
AutomatedTeller Frequent poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Medford, MA Posts: 7,477	I'll play a small demigod spaceship. More violence than a diplo game!! __________________

Nov 13, 2009, 08:21 AM	#5
Tone Deity Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,533	@del62: I'd set up a game with maximum civs-all scientific. I used to like Russia for the contacts and hut popping but on the higher levels I now prefer Sumeria for the Agri trait. I'd play against Greece, Persia, Ottomans, Germany and Korea. This gives all techs available for trade except CB, which I'd research for an SGL opportunity. 60% pangea wet will give plenty of room for settling and trading so the tech pace should be high enough. Personally I wouldn't have barbs on so that my SGL opportunities are not reduced. The early builds will try to gain contacts quickly, hoping to trade for Alphabet et al getting onto Writing and the Republic slingshot asap. Avoid trading writing for as long as possible, keeping an eye out with civs to detect when they are getting close to discovering it so that you can get good value for the trade. __________________ Avatar by Mistfit

Nov 13, 2009, 01:47 PM	#7
AutomatedTeller Frequent poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Medford, MA Posts: 7,477	All scientific, yes. Pangea will give the best time, arch will be safest. I'd go pangea. Russia will help you get throw the AA fast and will probably give you an extra settler or town or two. Sumeria will help you expand fast, both early and late. Ottoman and Persia will get your land improved really fast. Greece and Korea will get more money from your land. Byzantium, Germany and Babylon are really the ones that aren't all that useful. __________________

Nov 14, 2009, 01:00 AM	#9
AutomatedTeller Frequent poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Medford, MA Posts: 7,477	the shorter revolution is important - but then, you can get a fair amount of science done with scientists even during a revolution. I might make my first shot at this Germany. See if the fast barracks and early leaders make expansion through war easier. Nice thing about demi-god is that the AI will expand for you. __________________

Nov 10, 2009, 10:34 PM	#2
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	I believe we discussed small, demi-god, spaceship in the Oct/Nov gauntlet thread. I like that idea, but I've started into a Huge Histo game, so if someone has a better idea, I certainly won't feel offended.

Nov 13, 2009, 12:49 AM	#4
del62 Deity Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern England Posts: 2,080	Which tribes would you recommend for a small demo spaceship, and which settings? Any overall stratergies?

Nov 13, 2009, 10:47 AM	#6
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	warm, wet/normal, 5 billion, 60% pangea, play as Sumeria or Ottomans (not Persia, as immortals probably won't prove as potentially useful as the Sipahi). Play with Germany, Sumeria, Ottomans, Persia, Russia, and Babylon as your opponents and research Alphabet first for the SGL opportunity. Or play as Greece or Korea and delete whoever you choose. I'd recommend having at least 5 foodin despotism and a river in your capital before starting.

Nov 13, 2009, 07:20 PM	#8
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	Babylon has a shorter revolution, and potentially can have more than one revolution. I do BELIEVE along with AT and Tone I would guess, that 2 turns to The Republic vs. 6 turns to The Republic generally gets nullified by the other advantages AT listed, but it's not necessarily proven, and we could all have got this one wrong.

Nov 14, 2009, 06:10 AM	#10
del62 Deity Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern England Posts: 2,080	What about playing with say Mayans or Iriqois surrounded by scientific civs, for their agricultural and either industial / commercial strenghts

Nov 14, 2009, 08:37 AM	#11
AutomatedTeller Frequent poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Medford, MA Posts: 7,477	might be a fun game. Will almost certainly end after the scientific civs, for 2 reasons: 1) Libs and unis will take a much longer time to be built 2) You will miss out on a potential 3 free techs, maybe more (in the IA and MT, you often have to promise most of your economy to get the free techs from the AI and you pay them back with your free tech - if you can't get a free tech, you can't really afford to buy theirs. Sometimes, you can get it with the next tech you research, though, so it doesn't matter all that much. __________________

Nov 14, 2009, 10:36 AM	#12
del62 Deity Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern England Posts: 2,080	I expect you right, anyway I tried with the Iriqois and it all went horribly wrong halfway through the industrial age, when I lost out on theory of evo by 6 turns, and then the ottomans despite having always had good relations just declared on me. I think the main problem I had though was a lack of resources.

Dec 09, 2009, 07:46 PM	#13
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	I played one with Sumeria where I got an SGL on Alphabet. I also had a cow and game in my inital city radius, as well two wheats in the first ring. So, I grabbed a slew of terrritory. But, even though I could buy 3 techs in each era, no one got Computers in the modern era, I got optionals as my free tech. I also had happiness problems, as I could only get 5 luxuries with trades, and I didn't have saltpeter, so war in the industrial age would have come as problematic, and I thought the money better spent on temples and cathedrals. But, of course that meant I needed the luxury slider longer. The map had a large island with luxuries on it, so overall a bad map, in my opinion. Also, even though I thought I gifted the AIs Electricity early enough for them to get me RP, after Combustion I didn't research Flight, and researched all of RP myself. They did get me Synthetic Fibers. Germany declared on me during the last two turns, but that didn't affect anything. I finished in 1230 and any more details don't come as worthwhile, as even though it appeared like a promising game, it ended up disappointing in the end.

Dec 10, 2009, 06:21 AM	#15
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	For a small map, yes. But, I have an 1120 finish on a standard map (and no Pyramids there), I got NO worthwhile free techs, I used the luxury slider in the industrial age, and I felt that I played a bit sloppy. Thanks though.

Dec 14, 2009, 03:07 AM	#16
Tone Deity Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,533	I thought that I had time for one try at this but it looks like I won't be able to finish it before the deadline. I'm not sure how good it will be. No SGL so no Pyramids. I played as Greece against the non-alphabet/CB scientific civs. I wanted to make sure that I could get the Republic slingshot, but maybe I should have been bolder. The extra food with Sumeria would have been pretty handy. The tech pace was reasonably good up until the end of the Middle Ages, when the AIs got sidetracked with optionals. Before this they provided me with Invention, Gunpowder and Astronomy but no one went for Magnetism until I had one turn left until IA. I got Sanitation for my freebie, which meant that my rivals spent the whole time going for the government techs. The only non-optional they've got since is Rep Parts and I've just started Flight as the final tech. Maybe I'm taking too much cash from them. Persia declared on me when my army consisted of 3 cavs and 8 warriors and so I got the AI to dogpile them. I'm really out of practice in this type of game. I took a couple of their border towns and then left them alone but they got wiped out before the alliances ran out so it's going to make the entry into Modern Times difficult. The War Fever was useful as I also only had 5 luxes. I might have to start another war to open up some more lux trade opportunities. I'm lacking horses and oil though so I'll have to be careful that I don't have my trade routes cut. If I complete the game I'll post here again with my key dates. __________________ Avatar by Mistfit

Dec 14, 2009, 11:49 AM	#17
CKS Emperor Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,688	I'm almost certainly not going to finish this one. My current game is going to require significant warring to keep from losing via domination, and I won't have that much time. It has been interesting, but I'm still pretty uncomfortable at demigod.

Dec 17, 2009, 07:39 AM	#18
Tone Deity Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,533	Time's up for this one. Spoonwood takes the gold medal. __________________ Avatar by Mistfit

Dec 31, 2009, 06:11 AM	#20
Spoonwood Grand Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,442	Nice game Tone.

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