[Vote] (5-16) Chariot Archers And Their Replacements Should Receive Skirmisher Doctrine + Hand-Axe Rework

[Enginseer]

Proposal: Chariot Archers and all UU (including the Barbarian hand-axeman) should receive the Skirmisher Doctrine (Counted twice for Flanking bonuses. +50% Combat Strength when defending against all Ranged Attacks.)

A second proposal is to also rework Hand-axeman to be more like their Chariot Archer replacement.

	Current	Proposed
Combat	7	7 (same)
Ranged Combat	7	8 (+1)
Moves	2	3 (+1)
Promotions	Has nothing aside from "Cannot Melee Attack"	Gains -20% CS Penalty Naval Targeting, -33% CS Penalty Attacking Cities, but can move after attacking.

Rationale: They were scary units for their time and operated from a support role. They even upgrade to Skirmisher as well. I would like to make Skirmishers more accessible to learn to use and fight against as you might see them in the Ancient era. This does buff the War Chariot, but Egypt UU certainly does deserve a tiny buff in its early game to stay relevant longer. The rework is to also introduce a barbarian proto-skirmisher at least.

 

[Rekk]

Chariots are meant to work like War Elephants. Large RCS and decent CS for its era/tier.

 

[Enginseer]

Chariots are meant to work like War Elephants. Large RCS and decent CS for its era/tier.

So Chariot Archers should have a promotion that makes them stay relevant longer until their obsoletion technology. As such the War Elephant has Feared Elephant to continue to stay competitive with other CS units like the Swordsman in their next tier.

 

[Enginseer]

Amended from (5-20) to add Hand-axeman in (5-21).

 

[Enginseer]

I will sponsor this.

 

[pineappledan]

Maybe the hand-axeman should become a slinger replacement, and barbs have chariot archer deactivated? Currently it’s the other way around, and barbs have slingers disabled. Hand axes are a lot more similar to slingers than chariots already.

Could change hand axe stats to match slinger’s and have them unlock earlier

 

[Rekk]

What's the difference between a chariot archer and a skirmisher with this proposal?

 

[pineappledan]

2CS, no movement penalty, and an art swap, I guess. Same RCS.

The entire point was that the chariot archer has large base stats for its unlock, and the skirmisher transitions to a support role.

 

[Rekk]

So this is mostly a change of "why bother upgrading to skirmisher".

 

[Enginseer]

What's the difference between a chariot archer and a skirmisher with this proposal?

Chariot Archer has Beam Axle. Can't travel on rough terrains smoothly like their upgraded counterparts at all. If you don't bother upgrading, they'll collapse at Archers afterward.

 

[Rekk]

If you don't bother upgrading, they'll collapse at Archers afterward.

Not really. I can't imagine how they will be prioritized when the main reason you built Chariots in the first place is because your terrain allowed them to work well.

 

[Urzamax]

Sorry Enginseer, but it's actually your own tweaks mod which makes me leery of this proposal--I don't really care either way about chariots, but Skirmish Axemen have become the bane of my existence. They aren't really dangerous so much as tremendously frustrating.

 

[Tekamthi]

I don't like the hand axeman as a pseudo-chariot for thematic reasons.

The rest of the proposal makes sense, and I wouldn't be opposed to barbs getting some unused horse model for this role if such exists... But the hand axeman seems like a natural slinger variant, I'd find it jarring to see these on map and have to think of it as skirmisher line rather than archer

 

[Recursive]

I still hate Hand-axes due to the animation glitch where they stand in place for 20 seconds.

 

[DeAnno]

I don't mind barbs being strong, but barbs having 3 base movement multiplied by their mobility bonus and assisted by their instant spawns is a recipe for frustration. Horseman barbs are quite rare and take a while to come out, so it's kind of ok; in contrast axemen are everywhere and you deal with them almost immediately.