A Spiritual Odyssy

Pleased Shaka is good news, but he can still attack at pleased and we are his only foreign border. Do we have anything to offer Shaka for him to declare on Bren? If we don't have enough now we definitely should as soon as Bren declares on us (price for war will drop a lot) for the shared war diplo and to ensure he doesn't build up for us. It looks like he is still without a metal though. We should make sure he doesn't settle the iron in our territory. If he doesn't get iron he will be SOL later on.

Umm, there are Shaka axemen in some of my screenshots. Shaka must have traded for at least copper.

I hope we can bribe Shaka into war too, or else we're going to be stuck in a bad spot with not enough military and falling behind in tech (Hammurabi is starting to become a tech beast).

By the rules, we'll have to end up backstabbing Shaka anyway, so I guess it's time to build up gigantic military. I just hope Shaka doesn't get Maces by the time we're ready! I think Math is next, followed by trade for construction. Calendar is a good idea too to give us more whipping room.
 
Thanks for pointing out the axes in Zululand.

Priesthood + Monarchy is probably a better way to alleviate happiness and take advantage of our spiritual trait (cheap temples + instant civic switches). We still have land available to expand peacefully (2-3 more mainland cities, at least one worthwhile island town) so I wouldn't want to plot an offensive war yet. Washington may also be a better first target.
 
Ok so assuming Sirloin is MIA (if your out there let us know!) then Got It.

@ narri
I looked at the save and noticed that there are quite a few units that haven't been moved. If you can try to make sure that all units have moved when you pass on a save. It stops players like me missing a worker turn etc!

Ok so my thoughts on the game in no real order.

1. Bren has Construction as his roads have bridges crossing the rivers.
2. I might consider trading for archery from Shaka (a non Aes deal).
3. Tech the start of Monarchy and hope Pericles will trade Aes for it.
4. Any "spare" workers to start to chop jungle in prep for a new city there.
5. Build axes and workers. Millitary the priority.
6. Maybe chop out a settler?

I looked at the diplo screen and no one seems to be trading a metal to Shaka so I'm a bit stumped here. Maybe it was a trade that got cancled?

So I've be considering the future tech path and I wondered about heading Mono > Theo after Monarchy. Building the AP would be pretty nice for this game.
 
So Since no one commeted on my tentative plan I went ahead and played as I might not have time later in the week.

PFT

Sci < 0%

Switch Thessa to more production.

Trade Poly to Shaka for Archery.
Spoiler :


Switch tech to Monarchy.


1

I go begging to Shaka for Med and he kindly says yes. Sweet.
Spoiler :



2

I trade some spare clams to Greece just for the potential relationship improvment.
Spoiler :



3

Con, Worker > Axe

Adrian, Barracks > Archer

Sci > 100%


4

Our spy finds Brens SoD.
Spoiler :


Thessa, Axe > Axe


5

I whip the Axe in Thessa.

Shaka finishs the mids.


6

Bren makes a demand so I say yes as it keeps him off our backs for 10 turns.
Spoiler :


Shaka wants us to cancle our deals with Liz. I say yes as she doesn't reall like us and he's next door.

I trade for Monarchy from Pericles.
Spoiler :


We revolt to HR.
Spoiler :


Set research to Mono with an eye to Theo next.

Our spy is caught. Boo!

Shaka revolts to Police State.

Thessa, Axe > Axe. We have exactly 52 hammers including the overflow and since an axe is 52 I feel very pleased with this!

Nicea, Barracks > Archer

Sci < 0%


7

Hammy wants to trade Aes for Mono. I say no as its only 3/4 turns at 100%.

Con, Axe > Axe

Thessa, Axe > Axe

Adrian, Archer > Archer


8

Taoism FIADL (I'm pretty sure its from CoL as Liz now has it).

A chop in Con goes into a settler in.


9

Another chop goes into the settler.


10

Sci > 100%


11

Con, Settler > Axe

Thessa, Axe > Axe

Adrian, Archer > Archer

Nicea, Archer > Archer


Info

Tech
Spoiler :


Glance. Bren is pretty unpopular. Which is nice.
Spoiler :


As you can tell I ignored Infrastructure and consentrated on getting our millitary up to meet the threat from Bren.

Now we have Med maybe its time to consider building a Monastary in say Adrian or Nicea and gettting some Missionaries out into the big wide world. Or just to up the beaker output.

After Mono I still think Theo would be my choice but currency could come in pretty handy fairly soon as well.

So I put some tentative spots for the settler to head to. C1 and C1? to capture the iron before Shaka can get his hands on it. I still can't work out where those axes came from.
Spoiler :


I like C1? Even though its one off the coast as it has more land and the 2 dyes. However C1 could build a harbour etc in the future. Ideas?

Roster
Sirlion - MIA?
Grandad1982
cripp7 - up now
Pindrus - on deck
White Dragon
narri

Save
 
Good turns sir. I like the monarchy trade and overall tech situation looks very good. Not sure I would have traded for archery as axes are much better against gallic warriors, but not a big deal and I guess they make cheap garrison under HR.

For the next city I'd make the next one on C1 (coastal) and the other city actually in between the two dyes and south of the river, 1W of where the settler is in the pic above.

Good call on giving Bren clams. Cripp just make sure to cancel it during your set. I'm not positive on how the WHEOOHRN mechanic works, but it looks like Bren is still all red-fisty during the enforced peace. That may mean he is targeting someone else. Liz, Pericles and Washington are all also potential targets for him I'd guess. But keep axes on the border.

My one main comment would be to do more city specialization. Do we have a library in Nicea and are we running 2 scientists? We could go Drama to open up the Philo bulb for another holy city and good trade fodder. (sorry, can't see the save atm) We should send all the extra warriors to Constant. to raise the happy cap, PASTURE THE HILL PIGS, and lay down some more cottages. Get that puppy moving along, CS isn't far off! Adrianople should also get some farms so it can grow and work the mines/horses when focusing on hammers.
 
It looks like we're heading towards a cottage economy, which is fine by me, so "no" is the short answer. But we should be farming a GScientist somewhere and Nicea has the food to do so with clams. Constantinople could too, but we should be growing it into a Bureau beast! It seems with our variant having another holy city (or at least denying it to the AI) is important enough to work a couple fewer cottages for some turns. I'd only use scientists in other cities if they need to stagnate growth due to happy caps. But now that we're in HR that should be addressed with military garrisons.

A bit of a shame as the Byzantine UB has great synergy with a SE that can move things along without the science slider (1 happy per 5% culture bar! never worry about happiness again!). But I guess that's for another game.
 
Ok we have a problem, I canceled the deal with Bren, then this shows up
Spoiler :


2 cats/2 axe/2 swords with Nicaea having 2 archer/2 axe. I can move a couple axes from Thess, that'll take 2 turns. Options, I can make a clam for corn that'll give 10t of peace, or let'm declare and move some units in for support, can also :whipped: an archer in Nicaea for 2pop.
 
I say you do whatever is necessary so we don't loose a city. Move units, overwhip, etc. Just make sure he is targeting us and not just going through our territory to Shaka or America.
 
Pre-Turn
MM Thessa to grow
Hit enter

Turn 183
start moving the spare warriors back to Const
sience to 50% Mono next
Hire egg in Const and Adrian

Turn 184
settle Nico on C1 spot

hire another egg in Const
science to 0%

Turn 185
uh-oh Bren makes a demand. I say yes just to keep him off our back

Thess axe>axe
Nicaea archer>axe
still no signs of Bren's army

Turn 186
Const axe>axe

Turn 187
Adrian archer>axe
science to 50%
cancel clam with Bren

Turn 188
2pop :whipped: archer in nicaea
Moving 3 axes from Thess in hopes Bren backs off (doubtfull)

Turn 189
Just a matter of time


Turn 189
promote axes to C1

Turn 190
Nicaea axe>archer
Oh are we bless by a great event! Our brave soldier has ran a marathon to warn about the invasion. Start a GA!


slider to 0%(+33)
Bren's bombarding Nicaea

Turn 191
Hindu was just founded, Elizabeth found
Make a trade with Pericles for :gold:

slider to 70%

Turn 192
Const axe>chariot
Thess axe>axe
Bren suicides his stack, lost 2 archers, 2 axes

Turn 193
Bren takes his 2 units and runs away
Nicaea archer>archer


Stop here.
Const should go for a lighthouse next. Take peace asap.
We need to keep pumping out units, I don't know what Bren is coming back with.
 
Nice holding action cripp7.

Should we assume that Hindu is from Theo? When we get there We need to get the AP up as soon as we can.

We should use the GA to speed up a GP.
 
Roster
Sirlion - MIA?
Grandad1982
cripp7
Pindrus - up now
White Dragon - on deck
narri

Had a look at the save and everything seems in good order.

We should run 100% sci till Theo (money will hold out in the 4 turns it will take) and then get the AP built ASAP.

We could also consider building a Temple in Con or Nicea to speed up the next GP. If we got a GProth instead of a GSci then its all good as shrining our holy city will be a massive boost.

On the Diplo front remember to get those deals going with Washington again.

Peace with Bren may require an incurtion in to his lands. Remember we can't take and KEEP a city with out our State Religion but I'm sure razing is fine(if the team agree).
Shaka will DoW for all of our availble techs. Seems a bit steep to me to be honest. Price might come down if we knock Brens power a bit (hes still at 0.6 or 0.5).

The hill pigs in Con could be pastured now or we could wait to decide if we want to run CS before doing so.

After Theo is in I'm not sure about tech direction. Fued for the Lbows and border defence? Lit for the GLib in Con? Currency? Construction? Out of all of those I'd probably go with Currency as it would allow a higher tech rate.
 
Techs I agree with Currency also. That +1 traderoute in every city will help alot, then maybe go Lit for GL if it's still there.

As far as Bren, razing is perfectly fine. In the future when we get on a warpath, taking missionaries with the stack to spread once we capture. Or does the city have to have the religion already in place before attack?
 
I think the city should have the correct religion before we can capture it.

Of course we can try to use espionage to force the AI in to our religion so all there cities are fair game.
 
You out there Pindrus?

If you haven't posted a got it by the 8th then I'm affraid that I'll need to skip you.
 
Hey sorry folks. Still set up with internet on one computer, CIV on another, and no real regular schedule. I've got the save now and have some time this morning so I will go ahead and play.

Any offense will have to be limited to pillaging, as we are without siege and facing cultural defenses. Hopefully Bren will simply tire of war and we can make peace for a small tech or some gold (if one of us has currency by then).

As for the next tech after Theo, Currency is always nice, but I'd also want to see what the timing is of the next GPerson. If it works out, we could pick up drama next to open the Philo bulb from a scientist to found another religion and some nice trade bait.

Otherwise I'll try to keep an eye on worst enemies and cancel trades ahead of time. I personally wouldn't have caved to Bren's demand to cancel with Washington. We're in bad water with Bren no matter what so no reason to have two enemies close by. Canceling the deals doesn't give you any + diplo, just negatives. Unlike other demands for money, maps, or techs, the cancel deals request doesn't grant a 10-turn enforced peace.

Anyway, expect a turnset posted within a couple hours.
 
Preplay:
Well, it actually looks like Liz has researched Philo, as there is only 1 unfounded religion (attached to Divine Right).

We also have quite a lot of troops. I'm not really sure we need that many more to repulse attacks of Gallic Warrs, Axes, and catapults. Also not sure about the monument build in the new city. We should just get a missionary in there to pop the borders instead of wasting so many early hammers. It's almost done though so a granary is queued.


IT (193 - 295 AD)
I let all the current military builds finish. Do some micro to take advantage of the GA (work hammer + comm tiles at the expense of food). Again, we should have mined the riverside hill before non-riverside hills here:



I hem and haw about hiring scientists in Constant. We should be grooming it for a supreme bureau capital, but it's the only place with GPP invested :( In the end I keep the eggheads, maybe we can bulb paper after picking up math in trade. Unfortunately the place where we need hammers to build the AP is now committed to running 2 scientists.

100% science with Theo in 4.

Turn 1 (194 - 310 AD)
I begin to form up a pillaging party. Bren has lots of nice cottages in his capital. I note that we haven't built a single spear, but can't see horses in Bren's land. Will queue up a spear next in Thessa. Nicea and Constantinople both finish military builds and get to work on lighthouses. We need growth!

Turn 3 (196 - 340 AD)
I whip Const so that the LH is done to start AP next turn. I think we're a bit fuzzy on what exactly our variant means (I don't remember anything about the AP?), but it seems to be the team decision to go for it.

Turn 4 (197 - 355 AD)
Theo is in:



It gives us some new trade possibilities, but I hold off to get at least a few turns of work on the AP



The pillaging party has reached cottage central and goes to work!



I turn research to 0% and set the target to currency.

Turn 5 (198 - 370 AD)
Excitement! Bren attacks our pillaging party with some cats + axes. We trade off blows but are able to mop up during our turn. GG's are born on both sides and I immediately settle ours in Thessalonica for double-promo units. The best part though is that now his cities are defended by only an archer or two each! We should be able to raze Gergovia and perhaps Bibracte.



Our exploring warrior has also done all he can with closed borders to the English, so he is retired of his commission.

The First* Battle of Bibracte has also brought down the cost of bribing Shaka, so I make the following trade to keep him busy and for the +diplo, plus the cool sound effect:



Turn 6 (199 - 385 AD)
Our offensive stack moves out towards Gergovia! The axemen begin to play dice to see who has the great honor of being the first to throw themselves against the city. Good thing we don't know how to do math yet or they may realize what their chances for victory are!



Turn 7 (200 - 400 AD)
GE is over and we are at +9 gpt at 0% science. Not the greatest, but our pillage income is rolling in! Change around tiles worked to refocus a bit on food.



Turn 8 (201 - 415 AD)
The bigger they are the harder they fall?



Turn 9 (202 - 430 AD)
Or maybe not... Well this is an interesting development. We don't really have a counter to War Elephants (with only 1 spear in our entire army). Hopefully Bren will make peace after a city is razed.



Speaking of which...



Turn 10 (203 - 445 AD)
Being the brilliant tactician he is, Bren decides to attack (and die) with a lone catapult instead of his elephant. Our forces in his territory consolidate and should probably head back to our own lands and heal. Bren still refuses to talk so we can't even ask for peace.

Turn 11 (204 - 460 AD)
Bren must be reading this, as he brings in the big guns now with a couple elephants. Our forces are beating a quick retreat. Hopefully some will make it back, but with 1 city razed and several hundred pillaged gold I think the excursion was worth it.

Turn 12 (205 - 475 AD)
Our retreating army continues to be harassed, but no units are lost as a catapult and elephant both withdraw against axemen (was a lucky roll on the WE vs. Axe). Now we are onto a forested hill so we should be safe. Bren is also sporting horse archers now, so that was definitely a small window of opportunity that we had there. If we had attacked 10 turns later, even with more axes, we would be toast!

Turn 13 (206 - 490 AD)
Bren continues to throw spare units at our retreating stack, losing a horse archer and withdrawing another elephant. We are now back in our own territory, and with that I will end my set.

Closing Thoughts
AP Update--Still hiring two scientists, but with more food from the LH and pastured pigs we have grown enough to support them and still work the mines. I'm not sure if we'll get the AP. We still only share Theo with Liz, so if she hasn't decided to build it we should be able to.

Spoiler Large Pic :




I started a settler in Antioch (no more green tiles to work) and a galley in the newest city. It's on the wrong side to get to the Maoi site, but I'm curious about the island S of Zululand. If it turns out to be a dud we should just settle 1 SE of the cows to deny Shaka the spot. It will be a decent production site for ships + missionaries. We should also found our dye city pretty soon as we have workers clearing jungles far ahead of the time it takes for cities to grow into the tiles.



Shaka hasn't sent anything towards Bren, perhaps for the best. I would take peace as soon as we can, even if we need to give some techs.

Some tech trades are available (more would be if Washington was on speaking terms :( ):



If we do the Pericles trade first, we can probably get some cash from Hammy in addition to math. I held off in case the team wants to protect the AP, but I'm in favor of making the trades. With lit out so long I think GLib is probably a lost cause.

We have enough cash to run about 9-10 turns at 100%, which is more than enough for currency (5 turns) and even enough to just skip to CoL (7 turns). I think our next two big research targets should be CS and Calendar, not necessarily in that order. We have TONS of calendar resources--dyes all over the place plus a couple spices and an incense. I would put in a vote for making the trades above and researching CoL -> CS. We can probably trade for calendar with Theo or CoL if MoM goes soon or someone doesn't decide to build it. Liz & Shaka currently have it. We can also see that Bren is researching Feudalism in 29 turns (wonder why he is researching so slowly...)

The worker NW of Constantinople should go farm and connect the wheat for the health. I've also marked some irrigation for the new city, so avoid cottages there please. Keep an eye on growth as we are close to happy cap (over in Thessa, but it will continue to pump military for police).

Some overview shots:
Spoiler Large Pics :







Roster
Sirlion
Grandad1982
cripp7
Pindrus - Just Played
White Dragon - Up
narri

And the save:
 

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