Ability to Build All Improvements

[Shakiko]

Hiho;

First of all, thanks alot for making another modular modmod

I should start work on adding these in, and have the next version up in a couple of days. I'd also like to continue hearing ideas, especially for civic/improvement synergies.

How about adding a +1 for workshops when you use serfdom ?
Reasoning: You added plenty of possiblities to get - Pasture, Cities, Lumbremill/Sawmill, Estates, Ranch - all those net you extrahammers.
In the "old civ/ffh" you kinda just got Mines and Workshops if you wanted to go for hammers.
While Mines got another upgrade, Workshops did not get any buff yet - and those were already underused under "old rules".
Serfdom would kinda fit thematically for this.

I'd even think about giving Workshops +1 hammer all the time (start with -1 food, +3 hammers instead of -1/+2), on top of that - just to keep them viable when compared to all those other, buffed up improvements now.


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Does Arete still give +1 Hammer for mines ?
How about Deep mines ?
The changelog does not mention Arete, thus I'm wondering.

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How about +1 for Quarries (and its upgrades) when running slavery ?
Kind of a cliché, but perhaps you like thise idea

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I get your reasoning for not improving farms and mines, and trying to keep cottages as they are...
But right now, SE pays off even more than before. You still get plenty of food and all those new improvements take care of your production needs, thus you can just use specialists to get money/beakers all the way...

Don't know how to easily "fix" that (I'ma big fan of options, thus both SE and CE should be viable imho - right now it's not with those improvement of yours)

I guess one way would be to remove abit more in general from improvments to ensure that coins (when compared to food->merchants/scientists) pay off again - or if you don't want to nerf any improvements, I'd think about getting cottages (and the upgrades thereof) 1 more coin - or perhaps a civic (republic?) improving the output of cottages.

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My 2 cents so far, now back to playing/testing



PS:
Oh, one last thing:
I guess it's not that important, but a small read-me how to enable modules and where to copy your modular mod-mod to, would really help beginners...

 

[xienwolf]

@JDexter: Ideally these cyclic improvements would all be made so that the "bad" version of them is permanent, thus you cannot simply pillage them to get around the detriment which is intended to balance their effects.


Came up with another semi-nifty idea:
Exploited Village
Can only be built on a tile with 6 or more Commerce (Or whatever is required to ensure that it has to be a Town for a non-financial leader)
Permanent
+15 Commerce
Upgrades to "Ghost Town" in 15 turns
Pillages to a Cottage

Ghost Town
Permanent
Base Tile Yield only
+1
Upgrades to Cottage in 5 turns
Spawns Skeletons


With this you could work it up to have quite a few of them "saved" and not worked so that you can switch to working these tiles when in need of a really strong boost to your commerce, but if you don't then work the Ghost Town that follows you could be facing dire consequences.

 

[Mailbox]

Added v1.3 to first post

v1.3 for .31d

- Tested for .31d
- Fixed text errors (Thanks xienwolf)

As for improvement yields being changed by civics, that's going to be in v1.4. I also added a note how to install the mod-mod in the download link (since I inculded the .ini, it isn't hard at all).

 

[Mailbox]

New Version:

Spoiler :

v1.4 for .31d

New Improvements:

- Farm Complex: Farm Upgrade
+ 2 food
- 1 hammers
- 1 commerce
+ 1 with Irrigation
+ 1 with Sanitation


- Manufactory: Workshop upgrade
- 1 food
+ 2 hammers
+ 1 commerce

+ 1 hammers with Guilds
+ 1 commerce with Construction


- Metropolis: Town upgrade
+ 1 hammers
+ 4 commerce
+ 10% Tile Defense
Acts as a city

+ 1 commerce with Taxation


- Waterworks: Upgrades from Watermill
+ 2 hammers
+ 2 commerce

+ 1 hammers with Machinery
+ 1 commerce with Machinery


- Windmill Farm: Upgrades from Windmill
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammers
+ 2 commerce

+ 1 hammers
+ 1 commerce with Machinery


Civic Changes-

City States:

- Town
* -1 commerce
- Metropolis
* -2 commerce


Aristocracy:

- Farm Complex
* -1 food
* +3 commerce
- Pasture
* -1 hammers
* +2 commerce
- Ranch
* -1 hammers
* +2 commerce
- Winery
* -1 food
* +2 commerce
- Vineyard
* -1 food
* +2 commerce


Nationhood:

- Fort
* +1 commerce
- Castle
* +1 commerce
- Citadel
* +1 commerce


Arete:

- Deep Mine
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce
- Strip Mine
* -1 food
* +1 hammers


Slavery:

- Plantation
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Estate
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Open Pit
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Strip Mine
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce


Military State:

- Fort
* +1 hammers
- Castle
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce
- Citadel
* +1 food
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce



Serfdom:

- Workshop
* +1 food
- Manufactory
* +1 food


Agriculture:

- Farm Complex
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Pasture
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Ranch
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Camp
* -1 food
- Hunting Ground
* -1 food

Could a mod change the thread title to "Mailbox's Improvement Mod-mod"?

 

[Caradoc]

How about a list of prerequisites for the new improvements?

 

[Mailbox]

How about a list of prerequisites for the new improvements?

All improvements added without tech prereqs merely upgrade (like cottages-> towns). Ritual Nodes require Sorcery.

 

[xienwolf]

Finally actually playing a game, and using your module. I hadn't quite realized you made the Graveyards buildable and what that means in the long run. Probably ought to remove that since you can basically give yourself free Technologies and Units that way.

 

[Mailbox]

Finally actually playing a game, and using your module. I hadn't quite realized you made the Graveyards buildable and what that means in the long run. Probably ought to remove that since you can basically give yourself free Technologies and Units that way.

I was planning on the players just not exploiting it, but I think I'll take them out anyways. On things I might take out as well, I think metropolises might be bad for the Bannor since their worldspell / Crusade requires Towns (and I wish to keep this purely modular). Instead I believe I'll add more tech/civic bonuses for towns.

As for other things I'm looking into, I want to do this:

I'd actually not mind seeing a few of the nodes simply improve the Tile Yields instead of needing to have a far ranging change on the Empire/Area. Then when you happen to settle a city with Mana in the fat cross you can choose one of the Tile Yield Mana types to build so that the spot is somewhat useful still for working.

I'm not sure about the yield values right yet, but I'm going to test some more things before beginning on these.

 

[Mailbox]

Added v1.5

v1.5 for .31e

NOTICE: I know upgraded improvements sometimes don't display properly, this is an Art Defines/ Art thing and I'm not quite sure how to fix it.
- Adjusted Rice/Wheat Farm Complex values.
- Changed Advanced Start values to -1 for all improvements (so AI does better [builds more cities] on No settler Advance starts)
- Graveyards not restricted to flatlands
- Ancient Towers now able to be razed
- Adjusted Farm Complex values to no longer give penalties
- Removed ability to build Graveyards
- Removed metropolises
- Towns gain + 1 hammers at Guilds (tech)
- Fishing Boats give + 1 food at Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Optics
- Greater Ritual Node discovery chances

 

[xienwolf]

So which improvements have you had problems with on Display? I just popped them all in Worldbuilder and I am seeing that the upgraded Farm is just the hut, no cute little squares of land, and the Windmill Farm is smaller than the Windmill (I assume it was meant to be multiple?

Any others that just aren't bugging out on me?

EDIT: Also, I just downloaded it, but Metropolis is still in there and Graveyards still buildable.

EDIT 2: And your problem is in the CIV4PlotLSystem.xml file. Have to define all of the new Improvements in there since each entry is linked to the Improvement and not to the Art Define.

 

[xienwolf]

Bah, damn double posting. Why doesn't someone reply before I look up new things to add

Anyway, this tutorial will walk you through setting things up to add Unique Graphics if you so desire. After Finals are done (2 weeks) I might have a sit down and see if I can whip something up if you haven't gotten to any of it. At the least make the upgraded farms look like normal farms.

 

[Mailbox]

Awesome, thanks for the help with the art defines. I fixed the Graveyard bug and added a new improvement (watch tower), as well as some other stuff, but I'll wait to release it until after my finals are done as well. I left the metropolis in for now but might remove it before the next version is released.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, I started to merge a little to take a break from the SDK (and have something useable to release along with random tidbits for other modders). Why did you change the Defense Bonuses of Tundra & Snow, and increase the move cost of snow (which I had thought was 2 anyways... Did you make Winterborn provide double Movement in Snow while you were at it? Haven't gotten that far yet...)

EDIT: Fun with Modding: Moved all of your code into mine with a few minor tweaks (removed Graveyards & Barrows from being buildable is about all I think). Changed buttons for the Ritual Nodes too. So far it seems to be working decently well (except the changes I made that are completely unrelated of course). One note though: The Ritual Node Unhappy will only apply to a city if the Node is within the Workable Tile range of that City. So the detractor isn't quite so huge, as people can just build a bunch of them outside their BFCs and avoid the penalty completely.

EDIT 2: Hadn't actually built a node yet, just placed with Worldbuilder. The point of them is to discover Mana with them, right? Setting <BonusConvert>BONUS_MANA</BonusConvert> means they automatically create Mana beneath themselves when built. And since you didn't set any Terrain Makes Valid or other switches, I can't seem to build them anywhere at all, possibly I could build them ON mana... but that would be mildly pointless.

I am trying to decide between setting them to automatically create the Mana, be Permanent, and the final version upgrade to something Pillageable (Barrow maybe), or having them with just the chance to discover Mana, and be pillageable anytime.

EDIT 3: I went with the second choice. Made it valid for all possible terrain except Ice (might go ahead and allow it there too...) and you can destroy them at any time, or keep on waiting for some precious Mana to pop.

EDIT 4: Ok, I tried just putting the upgraded Improvements in with the non-upgraded ones and I only made the non-upgraded ones demote to looking like the upgrades were looking I'll have to read more on how to do them right (I barely skimmed that tutorial I linked so far)

 

[Mailbox]

The terrain values were a change from Sureshot's Modmod that I really liked, and I thought that it fit well with the entire theme of terrain alteration this modmod is aiming to achieve.

Actually with the mana nodes, I meant for them to discover mana only when worked (like most resources). This means that building them outside the city's BFC is pointless. I might have put the wrong code in, because having them appear when the node is built is way too powerful.

I do like the tutorial and it's tempting me to add some more resources to the game and finally go through with the change to archery/bowyers and make them woodworking techs that allow windmills/watermills. Too bad exams are on me.


EDIT: Just fixed Ritual Nodes, thanks for the heads up.

 

[xienwolf]

Yeah, exams here too or I'd be tackling that damn Upgraded Farm graphic issue. Quite vexing.

Perhaps the Buildable Ritual Node should have NO chance to discover Mana at all, but upgrade in 1 or 2 turns to what you currently have (so 4 levels instead of 3). If what you build has a SMALL chance, then you can still spam them outside of the BFC and eventually get mana with no penalties/drawbacks.

I can't remember if I mentioned it, but your Ritual Nodes are also set to upgrade to the next level incorrectly. Instead of IMPROVEMENT_BLAH you have TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_BLAH, thus making them fail to upgrade.

 

[Mailbox]

Fixed the Node upgrades.

About the farm upgrades; I think that I'm just going to go a completely different route and cut the upgraded farms out all together (especially in light of the issues you mentioned in the Worker Mod thread). Instead I'm going to lower the bonuses with a farm for wheat/corn/rice to +1 f / + 1 h / + 1 c (respectively) and raise the chance for resources to be found on farm tiles to around 1 in 3000-5000.

Here's my working log for 1.6

Spoiler :

Improvements:
- Clams now give:
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammer
+ 2 commerce
- New Improvement: Watch Tower
- 3 line of sight
- Buildable outside borders
- Optics Enables
- Fishing Boats now give + 1 food at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Ritual Node and upgrades fixed (thanks Xienwolf)
- Farm Complexes removed
- Farms now have an increased chance to find resources (1 in 4500)
- Farms now give:
+ 1 food with Corn
+ 1 hammers with Wheat
+ 1 food with Rice

Civics:

- Public Healers now gives +25% GPP
- City States
- Culture penalty increased to -50%
- Town penalty increased to - 2 commerce

Techs:

- Archery changed to Carpentry (in name only)
- Bowyers changed to Advanced Woodworking (in name only)
- Lumbermills moved to Carpentry
- Windmills and Watermills moved to Advanced Woodworking

 

[xienwolf]

I was contemplating ditching the upgraded farms myself But wanted to make one more attempt at setting them up (or cleaning up the LSystem.xml). I'll just wait for your update and merge it over into Worker Mod to remove them (Main reason I hadn't was that I didn't want to re-balance everything )

 

[Mailbox]

v1.6

Improvements:
- Clams now give:
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammer
+ 2 commerce
- New Improvement: Watch Tower
- 3 line of sight
- Buildable outside borders
- Optics Enables
- Fishing Boats now give + 1 food at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Ritual Node and upgrades fixed (thanks Xienwolf)
- Farm Complexes removed
- Farms now have an increased chance to find resources (1 in 4500)
- Farms now give:
+ 1 food with Corn
+ 1 hammers with Wheat
+ 1 food with Rice

Civics:

- Public Healers now gives +25% GPP
- City States
- Culture penalty increased to -50%
- Town penalty increased to - 2 commerce

 

[xienwolf]

Don't think that you changed anything in the CivicOptions.xml file. And you still have the slaves as granting 15 instead of 10 (changed in .31 I think).

Was there a reason that you didn't make the Elven Slaves able to build Barrows or Watch Towers?

 

[Mailbox]

Fixed the things you mentioned Xienwolf, but I'm not releasing a new version quite yet.

Added a reduced version of MIMM with just simple improvements/upgrades for Fall Further in the first post.