With the new changes to Espionage, my ideas for Administration of Savagery, Diplomatic Immunity and Panopticism need to be altered.
Also, I was thinking that maybe Mujahideen should be a Machine Gun replacement instead of a Light Tank replacement (same tech unlock).
Millenarianism needs to be stronger as well. It's also too close to Freedom's Universal Sufferage Many civs can get permanent GAs at that level, so it should do more.
I was also thinking that a way to reinforce Order's Economic / Domination hybrid focus would be to move the -25% Unit Maintenance from Autocracy's Third Alternative and move it to Order, so Order has both, building and unit % maintenance reductions. That way, Order is the economic victory path that focuses on increasing Net GPT by reducing costs, while Prosperity increases Net GPT by increasing revenue.
I was just going through this discussion and the potential for this mod is incredible. I notice amateurgamer has many different mods he has wanted to work on, but none are actually finished (correct me if I am wrong) since many were proposed over a year ago. I just want to say that I do hope you are able to complete this project as I think it could be a real boost to the overall play of VP.
On the theocracy ideology, I was thinking of taking pineappledan's idea of its focus being for a religious/domination/cultural victory and going a step further. I think how ideologies currently work in VP is basically you boost this and boost that, but because most people want each ideology to do everything, you end up with little advantage towards a particular victory condition. No ideology should be good at everything and for the victory conditions which the ideology is not designed for, it might also make sense to have some sort of malice to some of the others. For example, what if theocracy, which actually is a fairly modern mix of democracy bound by a theological view such as what Joseph Smith of the Mormons had proposed, or what the government of Iran currently is. Still, each of those is grounded in an even more base ideology known as Fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is full of many flavors and in every religion where fundamentalists exist, there are common aspects. Also, if there will be 5 ideologies to choose from, each should have only 2 victory types it benefits. Make these choices truly impactful and focused.
1) The more strict you are in your traditions, the more faithful you appear to be (appearances are everything to fundamentalists)
2) Strict literalism of scriptures and doctrine with a belief this literal interpretation is the only way to truth (a malice to science)
3) No one visits fundamentalist strongholds much due to the strict nature of laws and customs. Who visits Banda Aceh when you have Bali? (tourism malice even if culture is strong)
4) Finally, a strong belief it is your duty to help the religious organization either lead the world, or to prepare for an end of world event. It's hard to make the world particularly better materially when you anticipate it all going away.
So, with that being said, I think a Fundamentalism Ideology would have benefits towards a Religion/Domination victory. Tenets could have bonuses towards faith generation, perhaps a unique religious unit called the fundamentalist which acts as a hybrid prophet/general but without any unique improvements. Your units will cause fear due to their increased fervor. Against civilizations with more science and more culture, the fundamentalists are even stronger since they loath those who challenge their truth and embellish in cultural practices different than theirs. I also think culture bonuses would make sense as they develop their own traditions, but have penalties towards tourism generation. They might have higher population growth due to the desire to procreate new believers, but comes at a cost of decreased science per population, or even worse, an inability to build research labs.
I was just going through this discussion and the potential for this mod is incredible. I notice amateurgamer has many different mods he has wanted to work on, but none are actually finished (correct me if I am wrong) since many were proposed over a year ago. I just want to say that I do hope you are able to complete this project as I think it could be a real boost to the overall play of VP.
Currently, I'm dealing with personal issues so coding for mod is definitely very low on my list.
As for different mods, please understand that my mods attract very little or no interest and I'm working on them alone. Given the lack of interest from the community, I generally go at my own pace and do whatever mod that I happen to be in the mood of. In a way, I enjoy the process of seeing changes I code being implemented into the game.
As for completing this project, that's the biggest unknown here....
I hope your personal issues can be resolved in a positive way. With that being said, I guess I will take a measured approach and ignore any thread you started about mods you are working on.
I don't know about others, but I've had a lot of interest following the ideas tossed around here. Pdan alone has written essays about his ideas. And I would be very willing to help on such a mod project, I've heard pdan would be as well.
But for now, there is no pressure, I do hope whatever you are going through is resolved.
I haven't gotten through RL issues yet but I also don't want this mod to be on a longer hiatus than necessary. Just gonna start discussions as we brainstorm ideas. That will take time in itself and narrow down on our focus on what we want.
I appreciate @pineappledan 's ideas but I think it's best we take it one baby step at a time. Break it into smaller pieces and come to agreement with those. We'll slowly build up our foundation from there.
Therefore, we will start with the two new victories: Economic and Religious. Below is Pdan's idea.
SpoilerPDan's Idea :
Economic Victory:
Must have founded a Corporation (which means you must have at least 1 monopoly)
A Corporation unlocks a massive project called "Adopt [CORPORATION_NAME] Bucks" (ie. Giorgio Bucks, Sid Bucks, 2Kay Bucks etc.)
Each Corporate Franchise increases Production towards your currency project by 10%
Each Global Monopoly on Empire increases Production towards your currency by 10%
Every 2 Net GPT on empire (ie. your gold per turn after deducting Unit/building maintenance and trade deals) increases Production towards your currency by 1%
Religious Victory:
Must have founded a Religion
>66% of the total world population must follow your religion
Have a "Pilgrimage" action that expend the Gurus in your Capital to build a peak of Sumeru
Do other people have ideas for victories? I'm not against Pdan's ideas but I'd also like to see other ideas before we try to finalize what we want to see for victories. Any idea is welcomed at this point! We'll then figure out what's possible in terms of coding and what's the most AI friendly idea. Thanks!
If you wanted to do it in phases, I would think that adding 1 victory and 1 ideology at a time makes more sense. I know that would be more work for the first 1, and it requires solving more problems up-front, but I don't think dropping new victory conditions without having ideologies that are geared towards pursuing them will feel like big content.
I would do 3 phases: Phase 1: Economic Victory, new 'Prosperity (still working title)' ideology, and Order rework to gear it EV instead of CV Phase 2: Religious Victory, new 'Devotion (working title)' ideology Phase 3: Pad out and integrate changes fully (adding standalone late-game wonders geared towards the new victories, add more WC proposals to bolster/hinder each victory, re-balance first 2 phases)
If you wanted to do it in phases, I would think that adding 1 victory and 1 ideology at a time makes more sense. I know that would be more work for the first 1, and it requires solving more problems up-front, but I don't think dropping new victory conditions without having ideologies that are geared towards pursuing them will feel like big content.
I would do 3 phases: Phase 1: Economic Victory, new 'Prosperity (still working title)' ideology, and Order rework to gear it EV instead of CV Phase 2: Religious Victory, new 'Devotion (working title)' ideology Phase 3: Pad out and integrate changes fully (adding standalone late-game wonders geared towards the new victories, add more WC proposals to bolster/hinder each victory, re-balance first 2 phases)
The reason why I picked 2 victories first is due to the UI. I'd rather get that figured out together than do one, spend a fair bit of time on the new ideology and then needing to refresh memory on how to work with the victory UI again. I'd be happy if we test the conditions and they would trigger the winning conditions. While that's ongoing, we can figure out the various tenets for the two new ideologies because we know what we are working towards. Of course, that's just how I'd like to operate.
I'll just say here that it would be super neat if Germany got a different UU and free'd up the Tank base unit.
Order could be given the T-34 as an ideology unit, the greatest and most influential tank of WWII, just by swapping the panzer unit model and icon (it's of a Tiger I) with the vanilla tank, which is a T-34.
Then the religious ideology's unique unit could be an infantry unit; you could even use the same guerilla promotion, just change the unit model and icon to be more Arab Revolt/Mujahideen/War in Afghanistan. That would be preferable by far than my current idea that they would get a light tank replacement. Light tank is too early for ideology units, overlaps with Arabia's current 4UC unit, and it's a bit anachronistic and wonky.
There's been a lot of talk on the Discord, so I wanted to write a new post summing up where I'm at, and what we've been talking about.
SpoilerNew Victories :
SpoilerTasks :
Overview of Tasks: There would be 6 victories with the addition of this mod: Domination, Science, Cultural, Diplomatic, Religious, Economic, and Time
Domination has No Capstone Project; you only need to secure Objectives
Science has you complete multiple projects that Build Units to expend
Culture has you complete a single project that is, in effect, Build a Wonder
Diplomatic has you pass a specific World Congress Vote
Time's has you do None of the Above (but have a big score)
This leaves a few unique tasks that could be used to cap a game: Building an Improvement, working a Process, or generating a Great Person.
Economic Victory:
Your nation gains preeminence through wise investment, a global economic reach, and sheer economic might.
Must have founded a Corporation and adopted an Ideology
Corporation unlocks the Wealth Process that can be worked to accumulate Capital, a new resource
50%of Production is converted into Capital from working the Process
Compare to other processes like 'Arts' that convert 25% of Production into Culture
Your Production to Capital conversion rate can be enhanced by other factors:
+1% for each Corporate Franchise you control
+5% for each Global Monopoly you control
Process-boosting buildings affect the Process generation rate (eg. Power Plants)
Specific Wonders, Policies, Events, and WC Proposals
Capital can also be gained by Gold purchases if you have the Central Bank National Wonder.
In the same way that a Bank converts a % of your purchases into Science in the city, the Central Bank converts 15% of all purchases on Empire into Capital
Religious Victory:
Convert the world, either peacefully or by the sword. Once 2/3 of the world has learned the Truth of your holy mission, you can bring about a heaven on earth.
Must have founded a Religion, adopted an Ideology, and you must have control of your own Holy City
>66% of the total world population must follow your religion
Once these conditions are met, a 'Sage' unit appears in your Holy City.
Sages build an improvement that end the game. The improvement takes 10 turns on standard gamespeed to complete, and requires 10 Relics.
Relics are a unique resource that you accumulate over the game. You get Relics via several different ways:
1 for every Holy City you control, including your own
1 for each Reformation Wonder (should just be your own wonder)
1 Gained by expending Great Monks
Specific Wonders, Policies, Events, and WC Proposals
SpoilerNew Ideology/Victory distribution :
Order has a problem with its current cultural victory path because many of its tenets are isolationist, and work against that victory type. The other ideologies have fitting focuses, but I adjusted some of them to “make room”.
Core themes: Techno-utopianism, Algocracy, Oligopoly Examples: Thatcherism/Reaganism, Neoliberalism, Gilded Age monopolistic capitalism. Philosophy: Nozickian libertarianism and Randian Objectivism
Wonder:
EPCOT
Unlocked at Corporations
Requires Prosperity Ideology and 18 social policies
1600
11
1 Free Social Policy
50 When Adopting Policies or discovering Technologies, Scaling with Era.
National Wonder
World Trade Centre
Unlocked at Electricity
Requires Wire Service in the City
+15%Gold, +15%Science
+1 Great Diplomat Points
1 Civil Servant Specialist
+1 Paper
Receive one vote in the World Congress for every 2 Civilizations giving you Open Borders Agreements
Tier 1 Pop Art
20% of Tourism in Cities is converted into Gold. +5Culture and +3 Production to Hotels, Stadiums, and Airports
Commodities Exchange
Free Stock Exchange in all Cities. Quantity of Resources gifted by City-States increased by 100%. Happiness from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%.
Political Action Committees
5 and 5 per turn in your Capital for each Delegate you control in the World Congress. City State Influence decays 25% more slowly
Gospel of Wealth
Great Merchants grant 200 Influence from Diplomatic Actions. Gold investments in Buildings reduce their Production cost by an additional 10%.
Insider Trading
+2 Trade Routes. Can establish Gold Internal Trade Routes. +5Gold and Food in your Capital for every Active Trade Route
Too Big To Fail
+3Gold to Banks, Stock Markets, Academies, Manufactories, Towns, Villages, and Unique Improvements. Academies, Towns, and Manufactories steal adjacent tiles when built.
Soft Power
+30 Influence for Diplomatic Mission Actions. Unit Purchase Cooldowns are reduced by 1 turn.
Tier 2 Brand Ambassador
Gain +1 Spy. Diplomats in Foreign Capitals act as 2 Corporate Franchises. +3 Production from Corporate Offices
Tonnage War
Can build the Tribal Class. +20XP for purchased units.
Can be purchased in any coastal city (no building requirement)
1600
80CS (+5 from Destroyer)
6Moves
Destroyer Leader - +1 vision. Forces defender to retreat if it inflicts more damage than it receives. A defender who cannot retreat takes 50% extra damage.
Intercept (25)
Bonus vs Cities (33)
30 Air Strike Defense
Smart Cities
+10%Culture and Science in all Cities. City Unhappiness does not affect City yields ( Unhappiness still reduces Golden Age Progress, triggers rebellion, and stops settler production).
Indigo Era
Receive a Free Great Merchant and Great Scientist. +15%Science during 'We Love the King Days'. 100Gold when you discover a new Technology, Scaling with Era
Corporate Personhood
+33% Yields to all Trade Routes. Yields from Processes in all Cities are increased by 15%.
Company Towns
+100% Production towards Settler units. Settler Units claim all Resource tiles within 3 tiles, and Start with a free Factory.
Big Pharma
Free Medical Lab in your Capital. +100% Production towards Medical Labs on Empire. Research Labs and Medical Labs gain 5and 5
Tier 3 Campaign Finance
Can purchase Votes for the World Congress with Gold.
Horizontal Integration
All Improved Luxury Resource tiles Provide 1 additional Resource copy. 20Gold and Science in the Capital for each Global Monopoly
Private Spaceflight
No limit to the number of Corporate Franchises on Empire. +2%Production Towards Spaceship Parts in your Capital for every Corporate Franchise you control.
SpoilerDevotion :
Core themes: Theocracy, Eschatology Examples: American Evangelicalism, Dominionism, New Caliphate movements Philosophy: conservatism, Religious fundamentalism
Wonder
Abraj Al Bait Towers
Unlocked at Ballistics
Requires Devotion Ideology and 20 social policies
1700
Must be built in a Holy City
12
1 Free Social Policy
Free Hotel
50% of Faith is converted to Tourism in this City
National Wonder Inquisitional Court
Unlocked at Flight
Must be Built in your Holy City
+15%Faith, +15%Culture
+1 Great Diplomat Points
1 Civil Servant Specialist
+1 Paper
Receive one vote in the World Congress for every 10 Cities following your Religion
Tier 1: State Religion
Cities Following your Religion gain +7Tourism, Gold, Culture, and Golden Age Points. Bonus is Doubled in your Holy City.
Divine Wind
Can purchase Air units with Faith. Air Units have +25% vs land and sea units.
Charity
Each Public Works project provide +15%Great Person Rate in the City. 100 Food when a Great Person is Expended, scaling with Era. Can purchase Workers and Work Boats with Faith.
National Myth
Cities can purchase Cenotaphs with Faith. Faith Purchase costs reduced by 25%.
SpoilerCenotaph :
3, 3, 3, 1
When you construct a Unit in this City, gain Science, Culture, and Gold equal to 10% of the Unit's Production cost
Religious Art
+3 to Great Works and Theming bonuses are doubled. +20% Tourism during Golden Ages.
Not-For-Profit Organization
+2 to Corporate Offices. Corporate Franchises in Foreign cities exert +50 Religious pressure (standard speed). -2 Flat Distress on Empire
Esoteric Wisdom
+3Faith to Pastures, Holy Sites, Monasteries, Landmarks, and Unique Improvements. Purchasing Great People with Faith also contributes 10% to the progress of that Great Person in the City.
Tier 2: Graveyard of Empire
Enemy units lose all movement when entering your borders. +10Defense in all Cities. -33% War Weariness.
Autocracy's Martial Spirit changed to -20%Empire Size modifier
Televangelism
Free Broadcast Tower in all Cities. +25% Religious Pressure Strength for your majority Religion.
Ribat
+3 and 2 to military training buildings. Can build Mujahideen
Guerilla Fighter (50% vs wounded, +20% CS and +10 HP heal in friendly territory)
Air Defense I
Ambush I
Fifth Column
2 Additional Spies. Spies in cities owned by Civilizations you are at war with reduce City Strength by 15, and complete their missions 15% faster.
Great Awakening
Unlocks the Prayer Process. Missionaries are 50% stronger.
SpoilerPrayer Process :
Social Gospel
+50%Production towards Public Works Projects. Completing a Public Works Project provides an additional 1Happiness and 1Citizen in that City.
Just War
15 units do not cost Maintenance. All Military Units are healed and gain 50 XP Immediately.
Tier 3: Millenarianism
Receive a Free Great Prophet and a Golden Age Begins. Receive +1Tourism in your Holy City for every follower of your religion in Foreign Cities.
Armageddon
+100% Military Supply from Population. Receive 1 Free ICBM, and can purchase Nuclear weapons with Faith.
Veneration
Gain +1 Relic per Holy Site on Empire. Missionary Strength bonus from Monasteries on Empire is Tripled and +50% to all other Great Person instant effects.
SpoilerHarmony :
Collaboration with @Hinin Core themes: Multilateral action to constrain human technological and industrial progress in the face of climate change. Reactions and criticism of western political and cultural hegemony. Examples: Various indigenous, anti-nuclear, and social justice movements such as Green Peace Philosophy: Postmodernism, Post-colonialism, Materialism, and Environmental philosophy
Receive one vote in the World Congress for every Religion Present in this City
Tier 1 Syncretism - (Syncretism Enhancer belief renamed to Universalism)
+2Production, Gold, Faith, and Culture in all cities for each Religion present there. -3 Flat Religious Unrest on Empire.
Civil Disobedience
Cost of Inquisitors doubled and +2 turns of Resistance after Removing Heresy for all Civilizations. 2 Distressed Citizens in each of your cities generate Happiness instead of creating Unhappiness.
Note:
- inquisitor cost and resistance turns stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
- Unhappiness mechanic Mirrors Freedom's Capitalism tenet that converts Urbanization into Happiness.
People's History Great Person rate decreased by 30% for all Civilizations. Your Capital Gains +1 Citizen whenever you adopt a new Policy or Ideological Tenet. +3% Production for each Great Work in a City.
Note:
- Great Person rate reduction stacks from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
Posthumanism Technology costs increased by 33% for all Civilizations. +100% Religious Pressure from Trade Routes. +1 Happiness for every 5 National Parks on Empire.
Note:
- Technology cost increases stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
Satyagraha Faith, Science, Culture, and Happiness from Vassals reduced by 25% for all Civilizations. +1 to All Yields in all your Cities for every 10% of the global population following your Religion.
Note:
- Vassalage penalties stacks from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy, up to a max of 4 (ie, you can stop all yields from vassals for all players, but the penalty won't go past 0).
- All Yields means +1. You get +1 in all cities if at least 10% of the world follows your religion, +2 of All Yields at 20%, etc.
- Combines with Henosis, which augments how followers are counted towards your religion.
Seven Generations
+15% Unit Maintenance Cost for all Civilizations. +10%Production towards Diplomatic Units for each Embassy in the Capitals of other Civilizations. +50 % yields from Trade Routes with other Harmony players.
Note:
- Unit Maintenance Costs stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
Emancipation
Other Civilizations' Influence with City-States decreases 33% faster than usual. All Diplomatic Missions degrade other Civilizations' Influence with the target City-State by 20.
Note:
- Influence Decay speed modifier is vanilla code. Multiple instances from other Harmony players do Not stack.
Tier 2 Conservation
Workers can build the Reforestation Improvement. Units gain +20% Strength when in Forests or Swamp, and within 3 tiles of a Natural Wonder.
SpoilerReforestation :
800 build time
Removes any previous improvement. must clear any previous feature (eg Marsh)
Requires Grassland or Plains (not Desert, Tundra or Snow)
Requires 2 or more adjacent Forest or Jungle tiles.
On completion, adds a Forest or Jungle Feature to the tile
Greenpeace
+1 Spy (Scaling with number of City-States). Spies can Sabotage National and World Congress Projects, and are 50% more effective at sabotaging Production. +100% Nuclear Weapon Production cost for All Civilizations.
Notes:
- nuclear weapon cost increase stacks from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
- National Projects includes things like Apollo Program, Manhattan Project, Citizen Earth Protocol, and Spaceship Parts.
Circular Economy
Receive 3 free Recycling Centers. -50% chance for Franchises from non-Harmony Civilizations to spread your Cities, either passively or via Trade Route Completion. Other Civilizations cannot send Trade Routes to you unless you send Trade Routes to them.
Note: A policy form of Japan's old Sakoku ability
Phase Out
+100% Production towards and +10 Production from Power Plants. All Civilizations lose 2 Coal, and Oil Resources (min of 0) and gain 2 Aluminum Resources.
Notes:
- Strategic Resource changes stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
Immanence
+3 Culture on every Atoll, Oasis, National Park, and Unique Tile Improvement. +1 Faith for every 3 Non-Specialist Citizens in a City.
Degrowth
Receive a free Supermarket in every City. -25% to Growth and -5% to Yield conversion from Processes for all Civilizations.
Notes:
- Growth and Process penalties stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
Collective Action
The number of Partisans from Razing and Rebellion is increased by 2. +15%Production towards World Congress Projects. Can Trade Votes with Civilizations following your Majority Religion.
Notes:
- Partisan unit increases stack from multiple Harmony players adopting this policy.
- Majority Religion calculation is affected by Henosis (ie. other Harmony Player religions act as if they are your majority religion)
Tier 3 Peacekeeper
Gain +1 Vote in the World Congress for every Host and World Leader session, retroactively. All City States gain +50% Unit Strength and +15City Defense. Can ignore City-State unit caps when gifting Military Units.
Deep Ecology
+50% Game score from Religion and City-State Allies. Civilizations with a lower Score than you suffer +25% from all Needs. Can build V-2 Rockets.
SpoilerV-2 Rocket :
V-2 Rocket (Guided Missile)
Unlocked at Rocketry
1000 (200 less)
Does not Require Oil
Does not cost Supply (air unit)
No Purchase Cooldown
Can move immediately after purchase and does not suffer XP penalty for unit purchase
160RCS (up from 150)
Suicide unit (destroyed after attack)
Range of 12
+50% vs Cities
Vengeance Weapon - deals 20 splash damage around target.
Henosis
Followers of Religions founded by other Harmony Civilizations are counted as if they are following your religion. Your Religion spreads to cities 50% further away.
Notes:
- This affects abilities that depend on global follower thresholds:
- Religious Victory conversion threshold (see RV requirements above)
- Majority religion thresholds affect AI diplomacy (positive AI modifier for shared religion)
- Affects threshold Calculation for Satyagraha Tenet (see above)
- Other Harmony Players following a Harmony Religion act as if they share your Majority Religion
- You gain +20%Tourism with other Harmony players as if you shared a religion
- Affects Majority Religion calculation for Collective Action Tenet (see above)
- You can benefit from World Religion WC resolution if another Harmony player's religion was nominated.
- City-States following any Harmony religion have 25% slower Influence decay as if they are following your religion
- WC votes from Religious Authority is calculated based on ALL Harmony player votes.
- These abilities are a two-way street; Another Harmony player can benefit from your religion in the same way.
SpoilerRevised Order Tenets :
Dictatorship of the Proletariat (Old) +50% Tourism to civilizations with less Happiness. +1 Happiness from Factories.
Dictatorship of the Proletariat (New)
+1 Happiness from Factories. Can construct Commissariats
SpoilerCommissariat :
art by Janboruta
requires Dictatorship of the Proletariat and Industrialization Tech
1000
no maintenance
+5, +5, +5
-5% from all Needs and Empire modifiers in this City
30%Production and +15XP towards Armor units in this City
Cultural Revolution (Old) +34% Tourism to other Order civilizations, and +5 Tourism from all Great Works. Spies steal technologies at double the normal rate.
Command Economy (New)
Unit and Route Maintenance reduced by 25%. +2Gold and Production in the Capital for each unused Strategic Resource.
Autocracy's Third Alternative changed to +100% Strategic Resource Quantity and +34% Tourism to other Autocracy civilizations
Great Leap Forward (Old) Receive 2 free technologies.
Thousand Little Things (New)
Gain full Happiness from Exported and Banned luxuries. +2Gold for all Luxury and Bonus Resources on Empire.
SpoilerIdeas for WC, Tech Tree and Wonder Integration :
SpoilerWC proposals :
Fiat Currency: -25% Production modifier towards Capital Process
Cryptocurrency WC Project
Unlocks at Corporations
Bronze: Free Great Merchant and Trade Route Slot
Silver: Server Farm built in your Capital city
10
-5%Gold Maintenance from buildings on Empire
10% of Gold Purchases in this city converted to Production
Each Corporate Office on Empire acts as 1 Corporate franchise (Stacks with Order's Nationalization Policy)
+15% Production conversion rate for Capital Process
Secularization: All cities generate -50% Religious pressure
SpoilerWonders :
SpoilerWorld Wonders :
Fort Knox
Unlocks at Advanced Ballistics
11
2Great Merchant Points
8CS in city
PreventsGold Stealing Spy action in all Cities
Every 100 Gold you have stored in reserve contributes +1% Production towards Capital Process
Sagrada Familia Unlocks at Electronics
3500 cost (very high, almost 2x the pentagon)
1010
A FREE Great Engineer
Triple Religious Pressure from Trade Routes From this City
On Construction, Performs a large Religious Spread Action, spreading your Capital's majority religion to all your cities (10,000 strength spread to all cities)
Taipei 101 Unlocked at Lasers
3000
1
1Great Diplomat Point
2 Free Great Diplomats
Provides a large sum of Game Points (equivalent to 5 wonders)
SpoilerNational wonders :
Central Bank Available at Railroads (Colonist moved to Scientific Theory)
Requires Bank in City
+10
+3to Banks on Empire
15% of All Gold Purchases are converted into Capital in this City
I'm so stoked to see this modmod progressing, it's going to open up the end-game so much! I was literally just playing and deciding which VC to pursue, while thinking that RV would be a legitimate option for me if it was available.
I'll have to sift through this all a bit more before giving any opinion, but at quick glance this seems like tremendous work (as always).
The natural tempo of the game, is that religion starts getting much harder to spread, allowing civs to switch to using faith for great people. The religion bonuses here are a bit too overwhelming in number of free missionaries, pressure and prophets, without a countervailing force.
I think that perhaps the later security line of buildings, should negate increasing amounts of external pressure and foreign missionaries. With spies on defence adding more. Of course the modern security state isn't trying to prevent conversions, but it's closely related, and a existing line of buildings. So you can still keep your mid size religion and its bonuses if you successfully survived the mid game, if you keep up to date on building defences.
Of course the other counterpart should be a non player created religion 'Secularism' or 'Atheism' so that a religious victory, is a war on two fronts against other religions, and modernity. It could pop up all over the place, spread further by Rationalist and Order citizens, and less so by Fealty and Devotion citizens. With different types of bonuses.
Filled in the T-34 info. Added ideologically-relevant WC proposals and Wonders to round out the end game.
If we needed additional religious counterplay to contain the new victory/ideology, then that would probably mean the spreading potential of the new ideology is too strong. I would rather tweak/weaken Devotion to the point where it can still spread with proper policy and faith investment, without feeling too laborious, but not have it so strong that we should need to create an arms race of new components to counter it. Between the religious game being stale for 2 eras, allowing passive pressure to build up and congeal the world into blocks, and the evergreen presence of Inquisitors that can just reverse conversions if you can bear the cost, there are tools at people's disposals to counter Devotion's power. If what I am proposing is going overboard on pressure/spread abilities, then we can look at what is fair for an ideology-level power without feeling broken.
I did add a WC proposal for "secularization", It's basically just a placeholder for now, for -50% passive spread for all players. There is already the World Religion proposal, so I think the first place for overt counterplay is to add a WC proposal that curtails a religious victory like Travel Bans and Spaceflight Regulations hinder Culture/Science victories.
Of course the other counterpart should be a non player created religion 'Secularism' or 'Atheism' so that a religious victory, is a war on two fronts against other religions, and modernity. It could pop up all over the place, spread further by Rationalist and Order citizens, and less so by Fealty and Devotion citizens. With different types of bonuses.
From this take, I can tell that you and I have fundamentally different views on what religion is, and what 'secular' means. Philosophical differences aside, adding religious decay as a mechanic would be another heaping spoonful of complexity, and at a time in the game where I'm already forced to flip to strategic mode.
I really think for now we should just focus on getting this stuff into the game.
If something is fundamentally flawed or completely overpowered, sure. But with so many adjustments to religion it's hard to say how it's going to turn out, especially as there are likely going to be changes down the road.
Hi everyone! Just wanted to give an update for this mod! Don't want to give the impression that this is abandoned and maybe some are curious where it's at. We're still on finalizing a couple of concepts so the updates will largely be focusing on things that are close to or are finalized. This doesn't mean they aren't subjected to change. However, we want to lay down the basic foundation to build upon instead of having a foundation that's constantly changing.
First, we have the two new Victory Conditions (VC): Religious and Economic. The details are in the spoiler below. Religious Victory will be introducing a lot of new things like Great Person, specialist, buildings, etc. Economic Victory will be using existing mechanics and will just introduce a new Economy Process.
SpoilerNew Victories :
Currently, the plan is to have two new VC in addition to the existing ones: Domination, Science, Culture, Diplomatic and Time.
The new new VC will be Religious (RV) and Economic (EV).
SpoilerReligious Victory :
Religious Victory:
Gather the Holy Relics necessary for the [insert Wonder here] to prove the dominance of your religion!
Holy Relics are a unique resource you accumulate throughout the game. You get Holy Relics by:
1 for expending the Great Monk regardless of the action taken
1 for your Reformation Wonder.
1 for the following % world converted (50%/75%/100%)
Some Wonders
Some Tenets
The Holy Relics will then be used to build the Wonder for a player to achieve the Religious Victory. The Wonder (TBD) will be unlocked after you build a National Wonder (completion of this will provide a notification to all players) unlocked at Satellites. The Wonder will require 25 (number is subjected to change) Holy Relics to be built and the civ to build it is declared victorious.
SpoilerEconomic Victory :
Economic Victory:
Your economic might has made you the most powerful nation!
The Economy Process must be completed to achieve Economic Victory.
Economy Process:
Base Cost: 60,000 Production
Unlocked through The Internet
Converts 100% of Gold into Production.
The cost of the Process can change as follows:
+5% Production cost per Owned City. (Up to 100%)
-1% Production cost for every 20 GPT
-1% Production cost for every Corporate Franchise
-2% Production cost for every Global Monopoly you control
Can only be constructed in your capital.
With the new VC, we must make changes (bolded in spoilers) to the VC focuses of the existing Ideologies. We will also have two new Ideologies: Devotion and Prosperity.
SpoilerVC Focus of Ideologies :
Freedom - Cultural Victory, Religious Victory, Science Victory
Autocracy - Cultural Victory, Diplomatic Victory, Domination Victory
Order - Economic Victory, Domination Victory, Science Victory
Devotion - Religious Victory, Domination Victory, Cultural Victory
The decision is to approach this big mod in modular components. The first component is attached below and it has the new Great Person, new specialist and changed beliefs. Beliefs are changed due to plans for future ideologies. All details can be seen in the spoiler below. Feel free to give this is a try and give feedback as it will help with the development of this mod.
Note that icons and such are lower on the priority so I am aware if icons/art aren't working and/or are terrible. They will be eventually tackled.
An important feedback would be how many Holy Relics you end up with by the time your game ends as that will help with the extra victory conditions. Thank you!
Spoiler:
SpoilerGreat People and Specialist :
Great Monk:
The Great Monk can construct the special Sanctuary improvement which, when worked, produces Faith. The Great Monk is expended when used to make the Sanctuary. When expended, gain +1 Holy Relic.
Monk Slots:
Shrine: 1 Slot
Temple: 2 Slots
Grand Temple: 1 Slot
Monastery: 1 Slot
Hagia Sophia: 1 Slot
Cathedral of St. Basil: 1 Slot
SpoilerGreat Person Tile Improvement :
Sanctuary:
Base Yields: +6 Faith
Gains additional yields from Enhancer Beliefs and Reformation Beliefs (see Belief Changes section for more information)
SpoilerBeliefs Changes :
Founder Beliefs: Way of Noble Truths: When you discover a new technology, gain 4 Production, Food and Culture for every Follower of your Religion (max 150 Followers). +1 Global Happiness for every 10 Followers in peaceful foreign Civilizations. (Removed influence gain and Tourism gained from spreading religion.)
Enhancer Beliefs: Abode of Peace: +2 Gold to Sanctuary
Inquisition: 25 Gold and 10 Faith generated per converted Citizen when Removing Heresy. Removing Heresy no longer causes Resistance in Cities. +2 Happiness if stationed in a foreign City. (Removed cheaper Inquisitors and Spies exert Pressure)
+1 Gold and Faith to Sanctuary
Mendicancy: +1 Culture and Faith to Sanctuary
Orthodoxy: +2 Faith and Science to Temples and Faith Purchased Buildings. (Removed improved spread and pressure from Trade Routes)
+2 Food to Sanctuary
Prophecy: +2 Faith to Sanctuary
Sacred Calendar: +33% Great Person rate during a GA. +3 GAP and Gold in Holy City for every City following this Religion. (Removed stronger Missionaries)
+1 GAP and Gold to Sanctuary
Symbolism: +2 GAP to Sanctuary
Syncretism: +1 Science and Production to Sanctuary
Zealotry: May spend Faith to purchase land units in Cities. Strategic Resource quantities increase by 1% per following City (up to 25%). (Removed Missionaries eroding existing pressure)
+2 Production to Sanctuary
Reformation Beliefs: Crusader Spirit: +2 Culture and Gold to Sanctuary
Defender of the Faith: +2 Food and Production to Sanctuary
Divine Teachings: +2 Faith and Science to Sanctuary
Faith of the Masses: +2 Faith and Culture to Sanctuary
Global Commandments: +10 Science, Culture, Gold, Faith, and GAP per turn while the Host of the WC. Receive 150 of these yields instantly when you pass a Proposal. Bonuses scale with Era. (Removed faster Religion spread)
+1 Faith, Science, Culture and GAP to Sanctuary
Holy Land: +2 Food and Tourism to Sanctuary
Inspired Work: +2 Culture and Science to Sanctuary
Sacred Sites: +2 Culture and Tourism to Sanctuary
To the Glory of God: +1 Science, +1 Culture and +2 Gold to Sanctuary
I'm interested in installing this but not sure where exactly to start and what additions are actually stable. I'm also curious about how this is compatible with Pineappledan's Beliefs overhaul.
I'm interested in installing this but not sure where exactly to start and what additions are actually stable. I'm also curious about how this is compatible with Pineappledan's Beliefs overhaul.
A lot of the older components are obsolete as new ideas are drafted. Currently, there's only this and it's in very early stages. This mod is likely going through modular updates as things slowly get put together. I've finished crafting ideas for Prosperity, reworked Freedom and reworked Order. Just need to get Devotion draft done before sharing all the ideology changes in a future update.
As for compatibility, I'm leaning towards no. We have different directions and the changes made in both mods can have unintended consequences depending on what order things are being loaded. If the changes make it to the base VP, I will be updating things to make sure they work as intended.
A lot of the older components are obsolete as new ideas are drafted. Currently, there's only this and it's in very early stages. This mod is likely going through modular updates as things slowly get put together. I've finished crafting ideas for Prosperity, reworked Freedom and reworked Order. Just need to get Devotion draft done before sharing all the ideology changes in a future update.
As for compatibility, I'm leaning towards no. We have different directions and the changes made in both mods can have unintended consequences depending on what order things are being loaded. If the changes make it to the base VP, I will be updating things to make sure they work as intended.
Gotcha. I'd be down to use it once a Religious Victory and Economic Victory are implemented. I think the way you're handling those two seem to be good on paper from what I read. I'd argue for the Religious Victory Type though it'd be a good idea to make it accessible to everyone without having to go to war to steal someone's religion by moving Byzantium's UA to the Fealty Tree. It requires DLL work though and it is something i was interested in doing on my own anyway for a Fealty Tree rework but I don't have the knowledge or skill to pull it off.
Gotcha. I'd be down to use it once a Religious Victory and Economic Victory are implemented. I think the way you're handling those two seem to be good on paper from what I read. I'd argue for the Religious Victory Type though it'd be a good idea to make it accessible to everyone without having to go to war to steal someone's religion by moving Byzantium's UA to the Fealty Tree. It requires DLL work though and it is something i was interested in doing on my own anyway for a Fealty Tree rework but I don't have the knowledge or skill to pull it off.
The plan is to get Religious VC out first. Economic VC is a bit of an unknown because it's different enough that the coding can be interesting to say the very least. The only "mod" right now is to determine the RV conditions to figure out what Holy Relic numbers is good for it. It's going to be an ongoing task for sure.
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Economic / 
Domination hybrid focus would be to move the -25% 
Production towards your currency project by 10%
Faith each)
Capital to build a peak of Sumeru
Capital, a new resource
Culture
Science in the city, the Central Bank converts 15% of all 
Cultural, 
Diplomatic, 
Time
Great Diplomat Points
Happiness from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%.
Trade Routes. Can establish 
Food in your 
CS (+5 from Destroyer)
Unhappiness does not affect City yields ( 
Golden Age Progress, triggers rebellion, and stops settler production).
Great Works and Theming bonuses are doubled. +20%
Citizen in that City.
Resistance after Removing Heresy for all Civilizations. 2 Distressed 
RCS (up from 150)
