ALC Game #26: Willem van Oranje/Dutch

[EmperorFool]

Do beakers overflow into your next research project?

Yes, beakers overflow and are not lost. Some extra micro can pay off, however. The actual beakers that apply to the tech you are researching are modified by two factors:

1. How many prerequisites you have already acquired
2. How many known rivals have acquired the tech

I will sometimes drop my research rate such that I get as close to the limit without going over and then set it to 100% the following turn. I do this when I'm researching a tech that all the other AIs know and apply the overflow to a tech that no one else has.

The effect is minor and probably not worth it, but it's fun anyhow.

 

[ABigCivFan]

I shadowed this game for a bit.

Edit: ok no more spoiler in this thread.

This spoiler stops at 725BC, about the same time where the OP is at.

Spoiler :

I also built the GLH around 1725BC. then build some coastal cities. Since Liz built oracle and had 3 holy cities. I decided to maximize my science and gave her some time to build shrines. She later built TOA and got both Hindu and Jewish shrines.

Once i have GLH, I chopped 3 galleys to explore, signed OB and max trade route income with all AIs. Got Currency around 500BC (4 trade routes).





The plan is to rush to Construction and invade a much more rich Liz.

If an AI founds 2 early religion, delay rush until construction while developing your empire is a good alternative to rushing super early. Since there is a good chance the AI will emphsize religion, great prophets and build shrines. Especially in this case that Liz is Philosophical.

 

[azzaman333]

Looks like there's a general consensus for razing and resettling the barb city. In the bigger picture, most people seem to agree that war with Mao or Alex is not in our interests right now. Rather, expanding overseas would be very beneficial with the Great Lighthouse.

Maybe we could also try to bribe Alex into a war with Mao once we get Alphabet? That would keep those two occupied for a long while. Also, the point has been made that we might want to switch to Judaism to keep Mao happy, which I agree with.

Mao and Alex have an automatic +5 diplo bonus with each other, +2 from warmonger respect and +3 from their peaceweight modifier.

Alex has an automatic -6 modifier with Gandhi based solely on peaceweight. Mao also has -5 with Gandhi.

Take advantage of the hidden diplo modifiers and get them distracted with Gandhi.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Mao and Alex have an automatic +5 diplo bonus with each other, +2 from warmonger respect and +3 from their peaceweight modifier.

Alex has an automatic -6 modifier with Gandhi based solely on peaceweight. Mao also has -5 with Gandhi.

Take advantage of the hidden diplo modifiers and get them distracted with Gandhi.

Okay, that's a very good point. It'd be good to know where Gandhi actually is, but nevertheless we should try to bribe Alex and/or Mao to go after him and distract them from us.

By the way, how does Hammurabi factor into the equation?

 

[DampRain]

My failure for forgetting this is epic XD.

The 25% comes from the "ideal plan" (this you could argue, I'll accept that), that you'd build HE in amsterdam, as you were going to settle the GG there. This only goes the premise that you get literature and hence HE before civil service and hence bureaucracy.

At that point, you have a capital with +100% military unit production. The extra 50% from bureau makes it an effective increase of only 25%

About binary, 1 out of 15 is a 6% increase . (I'm not saying this is insignificant btw, every advantage is an advantage) compared to 25% from the libraries. Except that's only one "point" of binary research (since waiting for libraries/next +25% tech would mean binary research wouldn't be as popular), the thread also made mention of keeping research at multiple of 5 (this is only if you are alone) due predcessor techs known. There was a few more things but I simply can't recall atm , probably something involved with opportunity or what not ^^". The way it is talked about actually has quite a bit of subtlety O_o which I can't convey ^^". I think I'll read it again!

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/micromanagement.php

There's the link for any interested. Definitely suggest for reading if you are not too sure on the whole business, because I know I made some wrong statements above (edited now but still XD)

I also retract my statement about the 6% to rounding. This is due that most of your research will certainly be in the techs between say, writing, education, astronomy etc. . So the % might remain the same, the "extra" from binary on just the building bonus techs is alot less than 5% i imagine ^^" (possible exception if you are 0% from time you are in education till you oxford and you've build your empire around a SSC).

I guess I have to emphasise binary research more now O_o

 

[fugazi]

I'd settle another city north of Angle asap. Once that's done, keep your border garrisons up to date there and fill in the gap in between Amsterdam and the English lands. Might wanna send a chariot out to explore some.

 

[Sisiutil]

Code of Laws and Currency certainly make a lot of sense. It's a tough call on which would be better - Currency gives a more immediate boost, but COL is on the way to CS. I think probably a Maths -> Currency -> COL tech path would be fairly decent - Maths is a needed tech anyway, and helps to speed up our research on Currency.

Currency. You're Financial, for one, so you'll have more commerce cities with cottages where a market would be immediately better for you than a courthouse. is more important than , too, and you have ivory and will eventually have silk for the market to help out there. Then there's the GPT from resource trades and the lump sum gold from selling off techs.

I usually only prioritize CoL over currency if I'm Organized (and not Financial, i.e. not Darius) for the cheap courthouses. Besides, Currency is a prereq for CoL so having it will make researching CoL cheaper.

ABigCivFan: I can't pretend to speak for Lord Parkin, but when I was doing the ALCs, I preferred it if people who wanted to post spoilers from shadow games would do so in a separate, parallel thread--peeking is just too tempting!

 

[Lord Parkin]

I usually only prioritize CoL over currency if I'm Organized (and not Financial, i.e. not Darius) for the cheap courthouses. Besides, Currency is a prereq for CoL so having it will make researching CoL cheaper.

I guess I usually do the same. Only time I get COL before Currency is usually when I've got COL from the Oracle. Although occasionally I do a beeline straight to COL and CS while neglecting Currency, in special circumstances (mainly isolated starts).

ABigCivFan: I can't pretend to speak for Lord Parkin, but when I was doing the ALCs, I preferred it if people who wanted to post spoilers from shadow games would do so in a separate, parallel thread--peeking is just too tempting!

Yeah, I'd prefer if people posted their spoilers in separate threads. I missed that one, thanks for pointing it out Sis.

 

[azzaman333]

Okay, that's a very good point. It'd be good to know where Gandhi actually is, but nevertheless we should try to bribe Alex and/or Mao to go after him and distract them from us.

By the way, how does Hammurabi factor into the equation?

Hammurabi has -3 and -2 diplo with Alex and Mao respectively, -4 and -3 from peaceweight and +1 for some warmonger respect.

So, maybe bribing Alex to attack Hammy could be the best idea? Personally, I don't rate Mao as being able to be a threat, from personal experience.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Hammurabi has -3 and -2 diplo with Alex and Mao respectively, -4 and -3 from peaceweight and +1 for some warmonger respect.

So, maybe bribing Alex to attack Hammy could be the best idea? Personally, I don't rate Mao as being able to be a threat, from personal experience.

Well, any AI has the potential to be a threat, depending on their starting location and surrounding land. Anyway, I'll see what options are available when I play the next round (which should hopefully be later today). Regardless of who's warring with whom, it's better for us if some of the AI's are distracted with each other rather than plotting against us.

 

[ljsviolin]

LP

I'm probably telling you something you already know, but just in case you need to know about BUG's reminder tool: if you want to cancel the deal to Hammurabi after 10 turns, pressing ALT-M lets you set a reminder for X turns in the future. Then a dialog pops up to remind you what you wanted to do; handy for folks like me that get distracted...

I use this as a reminder to checks existing deals (maybe the AI has more GPT to offer after 10 turns), or as a reminder when 20 turns have passed, and I can wheedle my 'friends' for more money.

Hope this helps!

Larry S.

 

[Lord Parkin]

LP

I'm probably telling you something you already know, but just in case you need to know about BUG's reminder tool: if you want to cancel the deal to Hammurabi after 10 turns, pressing ALT-M lets you set a reminder for X turns in the future. Then a dialog pops up to remind you what you wanted to do; handy for folks like me that get distracted...

I use this as a reminder to checks existing deals (maybe the AI has more GPT to offer after 10 turns), or as a reminder when 20 turns have passed, and I can wheedle my 'friends' for more money.

Hope this helps!

Larry S.

Awesome! I'd heard there was a feature like that somewhere in BUG, but didn't know how to use it. Thanks for the help!

 

[Single Malt]

LP

I'm probably telling you something you already know, but just in case you need to know about BUG's reminder tool: if you want to cancel the deal to Hammurabi after 10 turns, pressing ALT-M lets you set a reminder for X turns in the future. Then a dialog pops up to remind you what you wanted to do; handy for folks like me that get distracted...

I use this as a reminder to checks existing deals (maybe the AI has more GPT to offer after 10 turns), or as a reminder when 20 turns have passed, and I can wheedle my 'friends' for more money.

Hope this helps!

Larry S.

Sweet, you learn something new everyday No more messed up prechops for me

 

[schlaufuchs]

Wow, BUG mod just became even more necessary for me lol.

 

[Lord Chambers]

It isn't the 25% bonus so much as a rounding issue.

Negative soldat. The rounding issues were essentially fixed in a patch or expansion by keeping track of your ,,and to the hundredths place instead of just the tenths place.

Binary research is still useful however, because tech research rates are increased as more civilizations know a tech. So if you are the first to research Drama, you pay its full price in beakers, but if you instead run 0% science for 10 turns and during those turns all the other AIs gain Drama, then you only pay 80% of the price. My figures are arbitrary.

Binary research is also more likely to allow you flexibility with regards to cash rushing/events, as well as changing directions with your tech path because you haven't comitted to certain techs yet.

On the other hand, binary research requires clicking small icons tens of times extra during the game, so this outweighs its benefits for me.

 

[EmperorFool]

The rounding issues were essentially fixed in a patch or expansion by keeping track of your ,,and to the hundredths place instead of just the tenths place.

are still whole numbers. The real fix for rounding was that all the fractional values for your cities are added before the rounding is applied, rather than rounding each city's value before adding. This solves the massive compounding across your empire, but there is still the rounding effect in the early game I mentioned above.

Binary research is also more likely to allow you flexibility with regards to cash rushing/events, as well as changing directions with your tech path because you haven't comitted to certain techs yet.

Yup, but it also makes it more likely for the AIs to drop by asking for "assistance".

On the other hand, binary research requires clicking small icons tens of times extra during the game, so this outweighs its benefits for me.

Ah, but not if you use BUG, Binary Research modcomp, or Main Interface Mod. They have two extra buttons for 100% and 0% for each of the commerce types you can adjust. </plug>

 

[Lord Parkin]

are still whole numbers. The real fix for rounding was that all the fractional values for your cities are added before the rounding is applied, rather than rounding each city's value before adding. This solves the massive compounding across your empire, but there is still the rounding effect in the early game I mentioned above.

Yeah, that's correct. It's only 1 beaker/gold across an empire now, instead of per city. Still, it's significant in the very early game. Later on you don't really need to worry about it.

Yup, but it also makes it more likely for the AIs to drop by asking for "assistance".

True that. Although I almost always refuse those demands anyway, as soon as I have the slightest upper hand.

Ah, but not if you use BUG, Binary Research modcomp, or Main Interface Mod. They have two extra buttons for 100% and 0% for each of the commerce types you can adjust. </plug>

Indeed - I've found those two buttons exceptionally useful in this game so far. Saves a lot of unnecessary clicking.

 

[DMOC]

Don't be too inclined to reject the AI's gold requests. I've found that they can be very useful for diplomacy.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Yeah, definitely. Of course I'll take into account the circumstances, as well as how much they're asking for. A small gift at a non-urgent time for me, when keeping that AI happy would be useful, is fine. However, an exorbitant demand at an inconvenient time, when I'm not interested in keeping that AI happy - I'll refuse.

 

[EmperorFool]

Don't be too inclined to reject the AI's gold requests. I've found that they can be very useful for diplomacy.

Agreed. I started by always rejecting those demands. That was fine in the lower levels, but when I moved up to Emperor I noticed a strong correlation to saying no and being DoW'd. I have since learned to temper my annoyance with logic and occasionally give in to AI demands for the diplo bonus and peace treaty.