Any Multiplayer streamer/youtuber other than Yoruus?

[Nick Carpathia]

Well, a better description is that a mid-level player can stomp low-level players by doing absolutely anything, but need to step up their game and use one of the few appropriate strategies for the situation when facing players on their or on a higher level.

I don't see any reason why not to maximise the amount of happy in any team game, so no reason to not trade away.

Any a final thing. Tommy, when is the best time to go Liberty instead of Tradition? I simply don't have a good grasp of when to do so. Every single game, my immediate instinct is to pick Tradition.

My understanding is that Liberty best in the early-mid. Have lots of fairly small size 2-5 cities, that intends to cap out at maybe a max of 10 production or so, and have them spam out constant waves of compbows and Xbows. Tradition on the other hand is meant to be for when you want an actual tech rate in the mid-game. So maybe Liberty just isn't viable for FFAs and needs science support from someone who goes Tradition in a teamer?

 

[RStark]

Any a final thing. Tommy, when is the best time to go Liberty instead of Tradition? I simply don't have a good grasp of when to do so. Every single game, my immediate instinct is to pick Tradition.

My understanding is that Liberty best in the early-mid. Have lots of fairly small size 2-5 cities, that intends to cap out at maybe a max of 10 production or so, and have them spam out constant waves of compbows and Xbows. Tradition on the other hand is meant to be for when you want an actual tech rate in the mid-game. So maybe Liberty just isn't viable for FFAs and needs science support from someone who goes Tradition in a teamer?

I am not Tommy, but I suggest you to watch the video uploaded by Yoruus recently. He played as Indonesia in 6 player NQ FFA game. He chose Liberty and virtually didn't take advantage of his civ's unique bonuses. The video consists from 5 parts, so it shouldn't take you too much time to watch.
There were strong civs like Babylon, Korea and Poland in the game. However, Yoruus did really well by making use of Liberty bonuses.

 

[tommynt]

Any a final thing. Tommy, when is the best time to go Liberty instead of Tradition? I simply don't have a good grasp of when to do so. Every single game, my immediate instinct is to pick Tradition.

Liberty espacially the 1. 3 in liberty up to free settler and production bonus are close to ALLWAYS good.
This 1 sp is so strong ...
Simple math about how many shields and food and grow turn u save by this will tell you why.
U will usually allways want at least 4 (and i build up to 10) cities - lets say u go with just 5 - u save yourself 1 settler build and the others u build are done in 3 stead of 5 turns so you save yourself about 5*5-3*4=13t of production and grow now use these turn to build caravans or a wonders and grow in these turns u will end up with bigger cities as with tradition in smaller timeframe.

In tradition there is a SINGLE good policy-Monarchy- in liberty EVERY SP is good - so your instincts SHOULD tell u to go liberty ...

In a ffa or also when in back in a teamer it MIGHT be good to go tradition after 3 in liberty just to get monarchy at some point or if u want build HG. But then is the free guy from liberty very often just gamebreaking.

 

[djcollin]

Blindness to the strengths of Tradition and the weaknesses of Liberty are to be expected from the Liberty devout.

Smote, keep working that Tradition and show how it can work in team games as you have shown it works in FFA.

 

[tommynt]

when playing with apes obviously is the gorilla the king ...

 

[Tabarnak]

when playing with apes obviously is the gorilla the king ...

Don't know why but i laughed a bit.

You forgot the finisher from Tradition. This is probably the strongest of all of them. Also, Liberty>Tradition for duel/most team games, FFA with more than 1 close neighbor on flat terrain.

Tradition is only superior to Liberty if there is limited space to settle and semi-isolated or with lot of mountains around because you can turtle until the turn 90-100 where Tradition really shines.

In other words : it depends.

 

[Silverfuturist]

all I hear is boring pop music, but it looks like he's talking as he's playing, explaining what he does?

First of all, I will say that putting your games on video for the world to see is brave, he gets points from me for that.

I didn't hear him talking, but I did hear the pop music. I saw the first few mins here are my observation, which is say without judging him as a person, just looking at the decisions:

1. He doesn't "stagger step" before crossing a river. Instead of just crossing river next to you, you move on the flatland first, then cross the river, to get an extra tile of sight.

2. He tech-ed to pottery , and his scout finished just in time to make a shrine... where he chose worker instead. I saw only 3 turns to make a shrine, in an 8 man FFA if you don't make shrine early you are betting that you will find faith CS. If you don't you get a late pantheon. It can be like 20 turns later than rushing the shrine, that is 20 turns without the bonus from faith. So if you go for god-king as an example, you gave up 20 hammers, 20 gold, 20 culture, 20 science and 20 faith by delaying the shrine.

3. He manually selected 2 tile yields over 4 tile yields to get the worker done faster. 2 food + 2 gold that early in the game so much better than 1 food 1 hammer. With his 4 units, he can just grab a worker and let his cap grow (and get the gold) instead.

4. He did get some nice paydays with bullying.

5. He declared war on Ermak the moment he met him. That gets a double

Edited: I watched a few more minutes, and I saw that he did buy some premium tiles a few turns later - he could have just bought them right away and gotten a few turns extra of those extra yields. I know this is a game of fun, but to be competitive you need to squeeze every asset you can to the max.

Kind of a tangent to another post in this thread: somebody made a great comment about 1500 rated players not understanding 2500 rated players game. I am almost 2100 rated in chess (will admit, civ and chess are both high ego games, I had to egotistically throw that in), and long ago I discovered that I could tell the 1500 players everything they needed to know to break 1600, and most of them would not believe a word I said. Superhans is an NQ player who is over 2100 in chess, he is a top FFA player (he doesn't do much teamer), there is a correlation between the 2 games, just so readers here don't think I am making stuff up about civ.

 

[Smote]

2. He tech-ed to pottery , and his scout finished just in time to make a shrine... where he chose worker instead. I saw only 3 turns to make a shrine, in an 8 man FFA if you don't make shrine early you are betting that you will find faith CS. If you don't you get a late pantheon. It can be like 20 turns later than rushing the shrine, that is 20 turns without the bonus from faith. So if you go for god-king as an example, you gave up 20 hammers, 20 gold, 20 culture, 20 science and 20 faith by delaying the shrine.

3. He manually selected 2 tile yields over 4 tile yields to get the worker done faster. 2 food + 2 gold that early in the game so much better than 1 food 1 hammer. With his 4 units, he can just grab a worker and let his cap grow (and get the gold) instead.

I agree, early shrine -> godking is quite valuable. However, I prefer strategies that don't rely on something only 1 player can get (like a specific pantheon, or a specific wonder). Ethiopia, maya, celts, anyone who finds a religious cs or faith ruin will all beat you to that first pantheon.

That said, I might follow this starting strat occasionally (theres usually at least 1 useful pantheon available, if not quite as good early game as godking). Especially if I know there are no cs or no ruins, none of those civs, etc.

I think I grabbed all the workers I could as well. (Even one that I shouldn't which allowed Ermak to liberate it.) But I agree with you, using the 2f/2g hex would have been better than the 1f/1h. I frequently like to build a worker instead of waiting to capture because its an extra worker, and you get it sooner. A quick worker is sometimes necessary if you aren't planning on settling your cities directly on the luxuries, to keep your happiness up with the rate of expansion. And usually you don't get quite as many workers as you want from the first wave of workers from CS, unless you are flooded with CS neighbors.

Also, I don't agree to equaling the value of gold with food or hammers, so 4 tile yield is misleading. I value 4g = 1 hammer, as this is typically the ratio for buying units. Alternatively, you could calculate the value of gold for purposes of upgrading units (2g = 1 hammer) or buying CS (varies on influence drop rate and size of empire). Or, 1g = 1 science, when you are dealing with negative gpt. T.f. the decision in question would be using a 2 yield hex vs a 2.5 yield hex.

I'm around 1500 in chess ;P

 

[BornSlippy]

Hi Smote. I just speed-watched your game vs Tommynt that you put up yesterday. This was also the first video I watched of you. I understand why some people react to your playstyle, as you have an unorthodox way of approaching things. I don't play at that level so it's hard for me to give constructive critisism, though. It makes me think a little of Chris in Civ4, who made a lot of outrageous claims on the forums a few years back and was met with a wave of skepticism. Then he started posting videoes of doing those outrageous things and getting away with them, and people toned down a lot. I'm not saying you're making outrageous claims however, it just made me think of that. The unorthodox-ness is the same.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'd like to say thanks for putting the videoes up. I'll watch some FFA later today.

 

[tommynt]

yeah in this game vs smote he really kinda surprised me ...
problem with duels is really this they are so much down to land - in this I had like 2 tiles of river in cap and 2 or 3 more overall and overall sea was everywhere ..
While all smotes land was one huge river/hill/dschungel festival - best thing to have ...

only thing which made me win this was stealing faith hill from CS and dominating religion.
If smote d have gone for desert faith (and) planted cap more in the desert era he d have proly come out top.

 

[Smote]

Yes, it was a good game. There was definitely some room for improvement on my end - need to adapt some of my strategies to more skilled opponents.

 

[djcollin]

I watched the match and Smote you did a few things differently with your build orders, but overall your empire management was solid compared to your usual games. The main thing where tommynt will excel vs you is his military management. Your improvements should be focused there... in what troops to build and when, and how to maneuver them better. You saw how tommy went all in on his military at that stage of the game, and if you can improve your military engagements, then your empire will continue expanding on that huge science lead and then you'll be able to make good use of that lead, instead of falling to a tech-disadvantaged, but stronger-military empire.

Tommynt seems to be much more experienced with battling, so no worries, just keep playing tough opponents and improve the military tactics.

My opinion wasn't asked for, but I hope it's taken as constructive.

 

[Santa Maria]

offtopic:
@tommynt - I love to watch the youtube LPs, but for me its very hard to learn or understand if I am just watching without commentary. Yoruus just explains why is he doing something and also how it fits to his strategy and what he wants to do with his moves. In your channel I find it very hard to understand you - I see you are a very good player, but kind of unable to understand. I can try to replicate your moves, but that fails cause I have different conditions/situation. Also I am like "why is he doing that?". But still its helpful - I am just saying that for me the explanation would be very helpful. I would love to see an LP from you, probably with commentary. There is a lot of players doing LPs, but I find only some to be really helpful - I like MadDjinn, LC, Yoruus the most. Also like the strategy explanation videos like BtM from MD and the scenarios but only MD does them on deity. Yeah, so or so good work.

 

[BornSlippy]

There's a semi-new YouTuber in town: Panang, from the NQ group. YouTube: themrpanang

Not a lot of commentary, but some in the beginning of each playthrough.

 

[Zod]

Hey,

I recently entered the NQ group and the level of the players in these games are really on an other level. I've been trying to find tips in the fanatics forums and on youtube but have only found one NQ youtuber: PrimevalCIV.

Do you guys have any other recommendation as of who I could watch to get better? I really enjoy watching these let's plays!

Thx

 

[Adjuvant]

I expect watching Maddjinn (sp?) would make anyone better on some level.

 

[Tabarnak]

Here is some links :

Ashtaar007(aka Smote(CFC)) This is a game with Zulus(ffa) but you can also check some other games from the list to the right. Pretty strong player

Tommynt Mix bag of sp/mp games with duels and ffas. Very clever player. But no commentaries. Laggy and fluffy sometimes

Yoruus Lot of NQ games shown. You may like this one. Lot of commentaries and strategies involved

MrPanang Some nice games in there

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Merged Zod's thread with an existing one.

 

[Quineloe]

how do you get into the NQ thing?

 

[Gucumatz]

Nope, not as i can tell. Cultural victory is the hardest of all in mp so it can take several tries before catching one

Anyone going for it here is a possible strategy that almost worked for me (Our game ended up in a 3 way agree to draw) where I was only 900 tourism [Or one Great musician away from victory] that I learned from an attempt by Yoruus [although he didn't get as far in the game he tried this strategy out against me and others]

An Autocracy culture victory. Basically the strategy is to NOT produce great artists/writers/musicians early on and save that for later. You MUST have good faith production and if possible sacred sites is a bonus but not required. You immediately rush for the Eiffel Tower [and doing so will allow you to pick your ideology to be autocracy] and getting the +12 tourism should be your signal. The goal is to take the +250 tourism for each civ for spawning a GM/GW/GA. If no one has gone culture people won't have been going culture mostly either [except for maybe the Great Writer bomb] and people's culture will all be low, so the goal is to blitz a culture victory with autocracy. By that point you should have queued up a musician, writer, and artist to spawn.

Build all the culture wonders you can for the free units, get archaeologists as quick as possible, and continue to spawn GAs/GWs/GMs. If anyone starts trying to realize whats going on incite the other players to go to war with that person in secret via whatever diplomacy needed. And once you are close if you have a good faith bank buy several great musicians and send them over to your biggest cultural enemy [guarded of course] and with leftover faith buy a GW and GA for an extra 500 tourism for every civ.
========

Anyways there are several NQ Youtubers out there

Yoruus, Furo, and Trump are all good to look at