Are you a fan of cars?

I wonder if EVs should make some kind of artificial noise, just to let you know they're running and/or moving. I've been surprised by an EV while crossing a street or walking through a parking lot a couple of times now. Nothing happened either time, because the drivers were paying attention, but it wouldn't take much for a driver to be distracted for half-a-second at just the wrong half-a-second. (And I've had close encounters with cars that I saw coming. For example, a driver turning right while looking left. Or the driver who was clearly encountering a rotary/roundabout for the first time. The only reason those douchebags didn't hit me was because I got out of the way.)
 
I wonder if EVs should make some kind of artificial noise, just to let you know they're running and/or moving. I've been surprised by an EV while crossing a street or walking through a parking lot a couple of times now. Nothing happened either time, because the drivers were paying attention, but it wouldn't take much for a driver to be distracted for half-a-second at just the wrong half-a-second.
It used to be a thing they talked about and did science on. I wonder what happened there.
 
It used to be a thing they talked about and did science on. I wonder what happened there.
I've read an article or two recently about pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities in the US (surprise! there are a lot of them!) but neither mentioned EVs in particular. I think it was mostly about road design (was it this thread where I mentioned the "stroad"? I can't remember).
 
I've read an article or two recently about pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities in the US (surprise! there are a lot of them!) but neither mentioned EVs in particular. I think it was mostly about road design (was it this thread where I mentioned the "stroad"? I can't remember).
A quick google scholar on "electric car artificial noise generator" gives the top hit:

Artificial Engine Sound Synthesis Method for Modification of the Acoustic Characteristics of Electric Vehicles 2018

Sound radiation from electric motor-driven vehicles is negligibly small compared to sound radiation from internal combustion engine automobiles. When running on a local road, an artificial sound is required as a warning signal for the safety of pedestrians. In this study, an engine sound was synthesized by combining artificial mechanical and combustion sounds. The mechanical sounds were made by summing harmonic components representing sounds from rotating engine cranks. The harmonic components, including not only magnitude but also phase due to frequency, were obtained by the numerical integration method. The combustion noise was simulated by random sounds with similar spectral characteristics to the measured value and its amplitude was synchronized by the rotating speed. Important parameters essential for the synthesized sound to be evaluated as radiation from actual engines were proposed. This approach enabled playing of sounds for arbitrary engines. The synthesized engine sounds were evaluated for recognizability of vehicle approach and sound impression through auditory experiments.
 
Mozilla calls cars from 25 automakers 'data privacy nightmares on wheels'

Privacy-invading data harvesting by smartphones, wearable devices, smart doorbells, and reproductive health apps are well known, but the Mozilla Foundation has found the worst threat to your privacy may be parked in your driveway.

The foundation, the Firefox browser maker’s netizen-rights org, assessed the privacy policies and practices of 25 automakers and found all failed its consumer privacy tests and thereby earned its Privacy Not Included (PNI) warning label.

In research published Tuesday, the org warned that car manufacturers may collect and commercially exploit much more than location history, driving habits, in-car browser histories, and music preferences. Instead, some makers may handle deeply personal data, such as – depending on the privacy policy – sexual activity, immigration status, race, facial expressions, weight, health, and even genetic information, the Mozilla team found.

Cars may collect at least some of that info about drivers and passengers using sensors, microphones, cameras, phones, and other devices people connect to their cars, according to Mozilla. And they collect even more info from car apps – such as Sirius XM or Google Maps – plus dealerships, and vehicle telematics.

Some car brands may then share or sell this information to third parties. Mozilla found 21 of the 25 automakers it considered say they may share customer info with service providers, data brokers, and the like, and 19 of the 25 say they can sell personal data.

More than half (56 percent) also share consumer information with the government or law enforcement in response to a "request." This isn't necessarily a court-ordered warrant, and can also be a more informal request.

And some – like Nissan – also use this private data to develop customer profiles that describe drivers' "preferences, characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities, and aptitudes."

Yes, you read that correctly. According to Mozilla's privacy researchers, Nissan says it can infer how smart you are, then sell that assessment to third parties.


"Why does a car company need to make an inference about my intelligence? It gets creepy really fast," PNI program director Jen Caltrider told The Register.

Nissan, according to the research, is "probably the worst car company we reviewed, and that says something because all car companies are really bad at privacy."

"Please people, if you care even a little about privacy, please stay as far away from Nissan's cars, apps, and connected services as you possibly can," it continues.

According to the Nissan USA privacy notice, the automaker may collect and share a ton data for targeted marketing purposes, including:

Sensitive personal information, including driver's license number, national or state identification number, citizenship status, immigration status, race, national origin, religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity, precise geolocation, health diagnosis data, and genetic information.

"Nissan's privacy policy stands out as one of the most amazing things I've ever read," Caltrider said. "They aren't shy about saying they could collect all of this stuff."

But Nissan isn't the only brand to collect information that seems completely irrelevant to the vehicle itself or the driver's transportation habits.

"Kia mentions sex life," Caltrider said. "General Motors and Ford both mentioned race and sexual orientation. Hyundai said that they could share data with government and law enforcement based on formal or informal requests. Car companies can collect even more information than reproductive health apps in a lot of ways."

The Mozilla Foundation also called out consent as an issue some automakers have placed in a blind spot.

"I call this out in the Subaru review, but it's not limited to Subaru: it's the idea that anybody that is a user of the services of a connected car, anybody that's in a car that uses services is considered a user, and any user is considered to have consented to the privacy policy," Caltrider said.

Opting out of data collection is another concern.

Tesla, for example, appears to give users the choice between protecting their data or protecting their car. Its privacy policy does allow users to opt out of data collection but, as Mozilla points out, Tesla warns customers: "If you choose to opt out of vehicle data collection (with the exception of in-car Data Sharing preferences), we will not be able to know or notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time. This may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability."

While technically this does give users a choice, it also essentially says if you opt out, "your car might become inoperable and not work," Caltrider said. "Well, that's not much of a choice."
Old second hand used cars all the way.
 
I wonder if EVs should make some kind of artificial noise, just to let you know they're running and/or moving. I've been surprised by an EV while crossing a street or walking through a parking lot a couple of times now. Nothing happened either time, because the drivers were paying attention, but it wouldn't take much for a driver to be distracted for half-a-second at just the wrong half-a-second. (And I've had close encounters with cars that I saw coming. For example, a driver turning right while looking left. Or the driver who was clearly encountering a rotary/roundabout for the first time. The only reason those douchebags didn't hit me was because I got out of the way.)
Blind people have it worst from EV's.....
edit:fixed brain fart
 
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LoL. Could happen to anyone.
 
I saw an article that claimed that EVs and hybrids in the US and Europe are required to emit a sound when going at low speeds, but I got surprised by an EV in a parking lot just this morning and I don't remember it making any sound at all.
 
I saw an article that claimed that EVs and hybrids in the US and Europe are required to emit a sound when going at low speeds, but I got surprised by an EV in a parking lot just this morning and I don't remember it making any sound at all.
After a slightly better google:

New noise systems to stop ‘silent’ electric cars and improve safety

From 1 July 2019 all manufacturers must install an acoustic sound system in new types of quiet electric and hybrid electric vehicles to improve road safety.​
vehicles will now have systems to produce a sound when they are reversing or driving below 20 kilometres per hour (km/h, about 12mph) providing greater confidence to vulnerable road users​

12 mph seems far too low, I think 30 would be too low as so much danger is people just exceeding the speed limit in urban areas.

[EDIT]Though I found this, and you can see why they may have made that decision.

 
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After a slightly better google:

New noise systems to stop ‘silent’ electric cars and improve safety

From 1 July 2019 all manufacturers must install an acoustic sound system in new types of quiet electric and hybrid electric vehicles to improve road safety.​
vehicles will now have systems to produce a sound when they are reversing or driving below 20 kilometres per hour (km/h, about 12mph) providing greater confidence to vulnerable road users​

12 mph seems far too low, I think 30 would be too low as so much danger is people just exceeding the speed limit in urban areas.

[EDIT]Though I found this, and you can see why they may have made that decision.

Yep, after a certain speed the noise is wind noise rather than engine noise.

The noise emitting thing is a bad move in my books however:
- yet more noise pollution
- hybrids are silent at low speeds too (so inconsistent)
- you should be looking anyway for bikes.
 
Yep, after a certain speed the noise is wind noise rather than engine noise.

The noise emitting thing is a bad move in my books however:
- yet more noise pollution
- hybrids are silent at low speeds too (so inconsistent)
- you should be looking anyway for bikes.

At high speeds "hearing the car coming" becomes irrelevant as to whether one can get out of the way, barring horn or screeching tires.
And bikes are much less of a problem for blind pedestrians, generally.
 
There is something to be said about a finely tuned sport exhaust on a gasser that is wonderous to the ears. Can't get that in an EV.

Edit: for those who don't get what a gasser is I'll explain. It's a term my friends and I use to describe a petrol powered motor car as opposed to a diesel or electric powered car.
 
My hybrid emits sound when in EV mode, but that's probably mostly the high pitch noise that the electric motors/generator produce.
 
As we switch to more and more EVs, the cities will get quieter and quieter, and the loudness of tires against pavement will be noticeable even at low speeds. But most cars, gas cars, are already much quieter than the wind they generate, and nothing about an EV will solve that, so at higher speeds it is moot.
 
I very much like my car, Scion FRS (same car as Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ). Sporty little rear wheel drive coup.
I very much dislike big SUVs and pickup trucks.
I have the same car (with a Toyota badge). Very nice,
 
I'm not a car person, but I appreciate the mobility that cars afford.

200 years ago, for most people, their world was their town and maybe the next town over in a direction or two. If you were lucky, you could travel by horse, but if you were poor and didn't have a farm, you couldn't go anywhere that you couldn't walk to.

120 years ago, that was often still the case, but thanks to the railroad, if you had the money and the time, you could visit more distant places.

Now, you can go pretty much anywhere at pretty much any time you please if you have a car. It's pretty amazing. No more having to plan around a train schedule, and if the train doesn't quite reach your destination, you don't have to walk there from the train station, you can drive there. Though you, or one of your travel companions, does have to put in the effort to drive the motorcar.

Although if I had to choose my top modes of transportation to invest more in relative to the past 10-20 years, cars would probably be 4th. Trains, public transit (bus/subway/etc.), and bicycles would all be higher on the list. Because while I can drive anywhere, sometimes it's really nice to sit back and read a book on a train or a subway, or just relax and not think about anything after a long day, or conversely to get some exercise by biking somewhere. And while you can get a lot of places in Europe (and maybe China and Japan?) by those methods of transportation, they're pretty lacking in North America.

I drive a 1.5L I-4 hatchback, 5-speed auto but with manual override (handy in the mountains), and it's pretty reliable, gets good fuel economy, and doesn't send any data back to the manufacturer. It's had as few as 3000 miles in a year (when I took public transit to work), and as many as 3000 miles on a single road trip. Not fancy, but it does pretty much anything I need, and is pretty economical in the process. I have no desire to drive a Lamborghini, but I'm a fan of my hatch.
 
I'm not a car person, but I appreciate the mobility that cars afford.

200 years ago, for most people, their world was their town and maybe the next town over in a direction or two. If you were lucky, you could travel by horse, but if you were poor and didn't have a farm, you couldn't go anywhere that you couldn't walk to.

120 years ago, that was often still the case, but thanks to the railroad, if you had the money and the time, you could visit more distant places.

Now, you can go pretty much anywhere at pretty much any time you please if you have a car. It's pretty amazing. No more having to plan around a train schedule, and if the train doesn't quite reach your destination, you don't have to walk there from the train station, you can drive there. Though you, or one of your travel companions, does have to put in the effort to drive the motorcar.

Although if I had to choose my top modes of transportation to invest more in relative to the past 10-20 years, cars would probably be 4th. Trains, public transit (bus/subway/etc.), and bicycles would all be higher on the list. Because while I can drive anywhere, sometimes it's really nice to sit back and read a book on a train or a subway, or just relax and not think about anything after a long day, or conversely to get some exercise by biking somewhere. And while you can get a lot of places in Europe (and maybe China and Japan?) by those methods of transportation, they're pretty lacking in North America.

I drive a 1.5L I-4 hatchback, 5-speed auto but with manual override (handy in the mountains), and it's pretty reliable, gets good fuel economy, and doesn't send any data back to the manufacturer. It's had as few as 3000 miles in a year (when I took public transit to work), and as many as 3000 miles on a single road trip. Not fancy, but it does pretty much anything I need, and is pretty economical in the process. I have no desire to drive a Lamborghini, but I'm a fan of my hatch.
Exactly. Cars are powerful things. They give any nobody freedom to go wherever he wants whenever he wants. Unlike public transportation, It is the individual who decides, nobody but him is in control. And they are pretty cheap if you think what they really are and how much pieces, materials and engineering there is in every car. Beyond sustainability issues and such, cars are really amazing things.
 
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