Assimilation

[Kael]

For anyone interested; I wrote a tiny mod that allows captured cities to retain their civilization build options. So that if you were playing as Babylon and you captured an Egyptian city you could build Egyptian UU's and UB's in that city.

I dont really think that fits very well with FfH. I was thinking about adding it as a FfH game option for a while but Im still on the fence so I decided to just write it up as a base Civ4 mod so I could get the code out of my head.

But I thought I would mention it hear in case any modmoders are interested in using it in their FfH mods. It could be kinda neat to be able to capture a Calabim city and start creating vampires, or capture an Amurite city to build a Cave of Ancestors in it.

All of the source code is included with Assimilation, its really a pretty smple change.

Here is the full thread for those that are interested: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=281289

 

[The13thRonin]

Sounds pretty neat, good work as always Kael.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

For anyone interested; I wrote a tiny mod that allows captured cities to retain their civilization build options. So that if you were playing as Babylon and you captured an Egyptian city you could build Egyptian UU's and UB's in that city.

Sound very nice. How does this work exactly? Does it require a certain % of the city culture, or does a city permanently keep the build orders it would have under the building civ. The second would be better, imho.

It might be good for you to be able to build the units that would be available to a civ that has, say, at least 25% of the city's culture.

I also think it would be a good idea to give out the Default Racial Promotions based on the percentage of the culture of the appropriate civs. Probably an equal percent chance of getting a default race as the percentage of the culture of the civ that has that default race.

It might be appropriate to create a new unit tag that blocks certain units (heroes, vampire, demons, etc.) from being built by other civs though this mechanism.

I dont really think that fits very well with FfH. I was thinking about adding it as a FfH game option for a while but Im still on the fence so I decided to just write it up as a base Civ4 mod so I could get the code out of my head.

It should definitely be included as a a game option. (Allowing gifting again should be an option too.)

 

[cyther]

Yes yes yes did I just get a bit over excited there. I really wanted something like this I for so long. Some things didn't even make much sense like capturing a city from the infernals and it suddenly being able to build normal humans.

 

[xienwolf]

Kael made a mod-mod!



It is pretty cool as a concept. I can see precisely how it would be done without downloading it I think. Just another example of a nifty thing which is easily done, but has to be thought of first


MC: Since he said it was a simple change, I am 95% certain it is just tracking who founded the city, and basing all build orders on that, rather than on the current owner. Thus cultural percentages are not a factor at all.

 

[Kael]

Kael made a mod-mod!

It is pretty cool as a concept. I can see precisely how it would be done without downloading it I think. Just another example of a nifty thing which is easily done, but has to be thought of first

MC: Since he said it was a simple change, I am 95% certain it is just tracking who founded the city, and basing all build orders on that, rather than on the current owner. Thus cultural percentages are not a factor at all.

Yeap, you got it. It really is a pretty basic change (codewise) with a fairly neat effect.

 

[Ekolite]

Does that mean that if I as the Luchuip captured an elven city, i would be able to build units in that city taht would look like elves? Would i be able to build a ljosalfar archery range there? Would it mean I could get longbowmen instead of gargoyles from that town?

Is this being included in main FFH?

 

[Kael]

Does that mean that if I as the Luchuip captured an elven city, i would be able to build units in that city taht would look like elves? Would i be able to build a ljosalfar archery range there? Would it mean I could get longbowmen instead of gargoyles from that town?

Yes to all these things (though the default race would take an additional check that i didnt put in the bts version).

Is this being included in main FFH?

No plans to include it in FfH.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Having the default race carry over is even more important than the build orders, imho.


How does the code decide whose the city is for the purposes of the "The raised one of our cities!" diplomatic penalty? Or for the "stop the aggression against our mother country" (or whatver it is caled) unhappiness? I'm thinking that one of those would be a better marker of what build orders should be present than merely who originally built the city. Over time, the original population may dwindle down and be replaced with citizens of your empire.

 

[Kael]

Having the default race carry over is even more important than the build orders, imho.

In FfH, yes. As a default BtS mod though it of course doesn't mean anything.

How does the code decide whose the city is for the purposes of the "The raised one of our cities!" diplomatic penalty? Or for the "stop the aggression against our mother country" (or whatver it is caled) unhappiness? I'm thinking that one of those would be a better marker of what build orders should be present than merely who originally built the city. Over time, the original population may dwindle down and be replaced with citizens of your empire.

None of that is changed. Anything that refers to the player is exactly as it was before. The only difference is that in the few places where it asked "what is this citys civilization?" before the check merely looked at the civilization of the owning player, and now that value is stored when the city is created, and that value is returned instead.

There are a few other tweaks to smooth things out (capturing a barb city imprints it with your civ, etc) but thats basically it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I realize that, I was just saying that it could be better if it didn't work that way, so that cities would slowly be assimilated into your civilization, eventually changing to having you build orders. I thought that the mechanic that one of those used would let you check for the civ whose nationality was the most common there, which would be a better measure of what should be built than merely who originally founded it. (If you were extending this logic to the FfH History, wouldn't your way mean that Braduk the Burning would have Bannor build orders?)

 

[Nicopol]

OMG, I love it!
That would be a great option!

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Could you have a late game assimilation technology? Its neat to have individuality among civs in the early game, but if a game stagates so long to as to get to future tech, its fun to see your large empire adopt the ways of the conquered peoples. Or be able to contract out to the elves, hire an Amurite wizard-historian etc.

Hmm, if I play Zulu, settle one city, build a huge army and let the People of the Rathaus surround me - I still won't get as good of a maintenance discount as bannor lanun with 2 law mana.

 

[DuckAndCower]

Could assimilation be a civic?

Oh, and I think we're using "assimilation" wrong here. If a conquered civ were to assimilate, it would take on the characteristics of the conquering civ... i.e., how things work normally. The term "abrogation", used in postcolonial literature, might be more fitting: "a refusal of the categories of the imperial culture, its aesthetic, its illusory standard of normative or 'correct' usage, and its assumption of a traditional and fixed meaning 'inscribed' in the words."

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, the way I was proposing it be changed would be gradual assimilation.

 

[it-ogo]

Looks like one more attempt to move from National State concept to multiethnic and multicultural Empire model (along with colonies, revolutions and so on). I think as a model it needs a number of new features and mechanisms (including strong reworking of culture concept) preciously balanced.

IMHO as it is it would give no more then some pointless complification to BTS and provide a bunch of conflicts and exploits in FFH (national heroes? elven workers?).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Actually, even workers suck, They are slow, and the ability to build improvements without clearing forests is civ specific, not unit-specific. The best workers are mud golems under Ljosalfar/Svartalfar control.

 

[it-ogo]

Yeah, and vampires now can feast only under Calabim control. I am slightly lost in all those tweaks. In any case possible bonuses from city of another civ standards look like exploits, not like natural strategy factors.

 

[xienwolf]

Hadn't thought about the fact it would allow you to race them to building their own hero That'd be pretty dang sweet I'd say!

 

[Mesix]

I think it would make a nice option for FfH in the custom game screen. It would not be any more unbalancing than the unrestricted leaders option in BTS and would create a unique game experience for those players who want to use it.