Assorted Language Questions

[QarQing]

So I've been studying Spanish recently but I'm finding it hard since, many letters make more than one sound and many are redundant (Ex: V)? What spelling reform do you think you would make? One of them would be me using C for /th/, Z for /z/ when S sounds like Z and Q for /k/? What do you think?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Spanish is way more straightforward than English.

They even put the subject before the description.

More logical, less keeping everyone in suspense.


V gets used in Viva?

The ll could use some reform.
Llevar might sound like yevar in one country, jevar in the next, and shevar furthered down the line.

I wish I could do something about rr.
I can't trill or roll my R's at all!
It took me 5 years of effort to learn to whistle.

 

[Ajidica]

I propose the Spanish language should be reformed into English.

 

[QarQing]

Spanish is way more straightforward than English.

They even put the subject before the description.

More logical, less keeping everyone in suspense.


V gets used in Viva?

The ll could use some reform.
Llevar might sound like yevar in one country, jevar in the next, and shevar furthered down the line.

I wish I could do something about rr.
I can't trill or roll my R's at all!
It took me 5 years of effort to learn to whistle.

I think, C should only make th sound in Spanish, Q /k/ and Z as /z/ (S sounds like Z) sometimes

 

[Birdjaguar]

Compared to English, Spanish nearly perfect regarding sounds and spellings.

 

[Hygro]

So I've been studying Spanish recently but I'm finding it hard since, many letters make more than one sound and many are redundant (Ex: V)? What spelling reform do you think you would make? One of them would be me using C for /th/, Z for /z/ when S sounds like Z and Q for /k/? What do you think?

Spanish is so phonetic I find this hilarious the v is often a b except when it isn’t, there’s leeway.

The language is already carefully controlled by committee, it’s completely different from English which is a free for all.

 

[W|M]

c only sounds like /th/ in the middle of nowhere, in reality the vast majority of spanish speakers use it as /s/

spanish doesn't have /z/

 

[QarQing]

c only sounds like /th/ in the middle of nowhere, in reality the vast majority of spanish speakers use it as /s/

spanish doesn't have /z/

Yeah then use C only for /s/

 

[Hygro]

But why Spanish? C and G are one way with i and e and another with a, o, and u. Ok… meanwhile English has those rules, but also breaks them, has more redundant letters, a mishmash of vowel sounds per letter. Dough, cough, rough, through, are you kidding

 

[QarQing]

But why Spanish? C and G are one way with i and e and another with a, o, and u. Ok… meanwhile English has those rules, but also breaks them, has more redundant letters, a mishmash of vowel sounds per letter. Dough, cough, rough, through, are you kidding

C is kind of confusing in Spanish as it makes a /k/ or /s/ sound. It would be better if it only made one of those sounds (probably /k/ sound)

 

[Hygro]

spanish c is the same as an english c. the soft vowels of i and e make an s, the hard ones, a, o, and u, make a k. Same rules for the g. At least in Spanish it's 100% consistent. In english, there are many exceptions, especially with the g.

 

[QarQing]

spanish c is the same as an english c. the soft vowels of i and e make an s, the hard ones, a, o, and u, make a k. Same rules for the g. At least in Spanish it's 100% consistent. In english, there are many exceptions, especially with the g.

Yeah but remember, this is still ambiguity. Welsh doesn't have soft C anyway

 

[Arwon]

So I've been studying Spanish recently but I'm finding it hard since, many letters make more than one sound and many are redundant (Ex: V)? What spelling reform do you think you would make? One of them would be me using C for /th/, Z for /z/ when S sounds like Z and Q for /k/? What do you think?

The first two would result in different spelling in different dialects, it would be like trying to spell English differently based on whether someone has a rhotic dialect or not.

Also in the dialects that make the distinction, what you call "th", and the Spanish letter "z" and the soft "c" all refer to the same phoneme /θ/.

 

[Arwon]

Also the letters B and V represent the same phoneme, but that phoneme doesn't align directly to English, it's two different sounds in complementary distribution.

It is a hard or strong sound more akin to an English B, at the start of sentences or stressed syllables or after nasals like M and N. Then it's a soft bilabial fricative similar, but not identical, to English V (which uses the top teeth and bottom lip, not both lips) in the middle of words.

You could use one letter to represent this phoneme but then you'd be merging a number of homophones which are currently distinct in written form, like vienes and bienes and rebelarse and revelarse.

 

[bene_legionary]

c only sounds like /th/ in the middle of nowhere, in reality the vast majority of spanish speakers use it as /s/

spanish doesn't have /z/

My Spanish school's teachers keep rotating around trips to their home countries / getting leave, so I've had about 4 teachers in the past few years I've been at the school. Earlier this year I had one from Spain so I had to get used to pronouncing the 'c' like a 'th'. She went on leave back to Spain last term, so this term I have a Chilean teacher (that I've had in the past) so I've only just managed to switched back. But I heard she's also going on leave too and the teacher from Spain is coming back so I'll have to go back to 'c' being 'th' again.

I guess my Spanish will sound pretty international?

 

[mitsho]

I guess my Spanish will sound pretty international?

And I think that‘s a good thing. If you‘re goal isn‘t to integrate in a specific reason, it‘s best to learn some kind of mishmash that is the global variant. Just as with English where a very basic simple English is the variant most often spoken (from India to Brazil, from Egypt to China). English by the way has this problem even more - since it has a simple grammar that makes it easy for people to speak, but the writing-to-pronounciation is a total free for all with no rules whatsoever. So yeah, the opening post really is hilarious coming from an English speacher.

PS: I first thought / hoped that this thread would be about Gender-Inclusive language. That‘s a huge culture war topic and it‘s quite interesting how different languages handle it.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

'ce' 'ci' and 'z' sounds as /th/ in all Spain excepting some parts of Andalusia and Canary islands where 'ce' 'ci' 'z' and 's' are all the /s/ or /θ/ sound with small local variations, about the same for the Americas.

'b' and 'v' are absolutely the same sound (bilabial) and have been for centuries. IIRC in the middle ages they were different with v being like some f or something. A century ago or so there was some pedant illustrated linguists who tried to differentiate both (b bilabial, v lip-teeth) but it was an artificial thing and didn't take root. So 'b' and 'v' could theoretically be fusioned in a single letter. In fact there have been discussions about keeping both letters or not dating back to the 15th century, until Antonio de Nebrija, a prestigious linguist, decided in 1492 that the 'v' letter was here to stay.

Anyway as in any language there are many useless things in Spanish, most coming from its evolution from latin, most evident one is the soundless 'h' which comes from the latin 'f' (farina--->harina) which went from aspirated to soundless many centuries ago. However if we eliminate the 'h' and other surplus letters, different words which are pronounced the same would also be written the same. (hola/ola), same for (basto/vasto) or (allá, aya, halla, haya) since 'll' and 'y' are currently pronounced the same too, making the whole thing even more confusing.

But even if confusing for English speakers i think Spanish tries to be a very unequivocal and exact language independent of the context with very strict rules to avoid any ambiguity at any cost, specially in the written form. For instance with the use of graphic accent (') which we could probably live without (and many persons in fact do ) but which makes the pronunciation and meaning of written words unequivocal using a comprehensive set of rules we all learn very early at school.

I have read somewhere this wish of being unambiguous comes from Spanish extremely bureaucratic tradition back from the imperial times, when everything was written down at detail in official administrative, ecclesiastical and judicial documents and stored in huge archives.

 

[bene_legionary]

In english, there are many exceptions, especially with the g.

I've been doing some volunteering service teaching children who weren't brought up with English to spell. Oh man, doing that made me I wonder how I even learnt to spell in English, and I could say it's not even my first language either...

Spanish is generally easier to spell, but for me it makes up in how rapidly it gets spoken, which I'm still getting used to after a couple years now.

most evident one is the soundless 'h' which comes from the latin 'f' (farina--->harina) which went from aspirated to soundless many centuries ago. However if you eliminate the 'h' different words which are pronounced the same would also be written the same

Yeah, Italian and Portuguese loses the 'h'. I did a double take looking at 'ospedale' when I was in Italy because I didn't make the connection that it was 'hospital'.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Keep spelling it S. P. A. N. I. S. H. When you spell it E. S. P. A. N. O. L. I can't follow you.

Because I don't speak Spanish.

 

[Hygro]

¡N ≠ Ñ!