Assyria - upgrading the siege tower

[Asklepios]

Currently doing an alphabetical playthrough of all the leaders, and played a rather inefficient Assyria game.

First time I played Assyria, it was on King difficulty with conditions set up in my favour - small map, pangaea. That was just after BNW came out, and I was just seeing how they worked. Net result was easy domination before the end of the classical era.

This time round, I played on Immortal with continents, so still played a domination win, but it took a bit longer this time round. The opportunity came up to upgrade my towers into Trebuchets, and I did so for two of them, but found that this reduced their overall performance as a unit considerably.

The rams I could use with my CBs/crossbows to take cities in 2 turns of siege, moving the towers up with one volley of shots from the ranged guys behind them, then the second turn a second volley and 2-3 ram attacks capturing the city.

Trebuchets proved considerably slower, given the setup time, and my army was already holding a nice melee/ranged balance that got messed up by changing a melee unit into a ranged one. It was nice that they had cover promotions from their ram form, but really it wasn't worth upgrading them. The rest I kept as towers, till finally I skipped them straight up the chain for artillery, by which stage the game was already at the stage of finishing off the last remaining opponent. They had remained useful right till that time.

So what do people think? Is the siege tower worth upgrading before artillery?

 

[Loucypher]

Yes. Yes it is. The thing is that while the Siege Tower is a fantastic unit, in later eras it becomes very vulnerable. You can hold off upgrading it a big longer then you would with Ballistae, but by the time cannons come around you'll want those for sure. They're just so...vulnerable otherwise. And they also can't preform other roles, like I sometimes use my cannons/trebs to fend off armies swooping in trying to recapture the city you just caught.

 

[slowcar]

I tend to keep one of them around as they have a passive bonus for other units.

If i use renaissance siege (trebouchet, cannon) at all i want them to have regular ranged promotions. Upgrading experienced siege towers is usually not a good idea as they have melee promotions which block the ranged ones.

 

[bhavv]

UU specific bonuses carry over when you upgrade them, so an upgraded siege tower should retain the 50% bonus for nearby units.

 

[George Abitbol]

If you talk about the sapper promotion (with the bull head), it doesn't carry on. Not all the UU carry their bonus (Forest elephant, Berseker,etc).

 

[Vitruvius]

When you get promotions for seige tower, get things like shock and drill instead of cover. Cover doesn't apply to ranged units (trebuchets) but shock and drill does. Just keep a siege tower around for sapper bonus.

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[tetley]

No, I don't think they should be upgraded before artillery. But they're not exactly the mainstay of your siege force, either. Never were. They're support units. You just move them next to a city and let them sit, and hope he cannot one-shot-kill you. But if he can, at least they're cannon fodder. Just make sure you move them first, so at least you get the bonus for one turn (which, incidentally, is not that much for trebuchets. The 50% bonus is only additive with the trebs' city attack bonus).

Assyria is basically a civilization that really shines when it takes cities...with lousy siege.

 

[civ54lyfe]

there are also more rare coastal defense situations you want actual ranged Siege units. and cities get too stronk for the towers around Renaissance anyway.

 

[Tyrvos]

UU specific bonuses carry over when you upgrade them, so an upgraded siege tower should retain the 50% bonus for nearby units.

The only thing siege towers retain is the cover promotion. Not all specific bonuses are kept on UU upgrades.

 

[Asklepios]

No, I don't think they should be upgraded before artillery. But they're not exactly the mainstay of your siege force, either. Never were. They're support units. You just move them next to a city and let them sit, and hope he cannot one-shot-kill you. But if he can, at least they're cannon fodder. Just make sure you move them first, so at least you get the bonus for one turn (which, incidentally, is not that much for trebuchets. The 50% bonus is only additive with the trebs' city attack bonus).

Assyria is basically a civilization that really shines when it takes cities...with lousy siege.

Lousy siege?

I'd say they're the only worthwhile siege unit of the ancient/classical era, myself. Composite bowmen make catapults meaningless, crossbowmen make trebuchest redundant. In contrast, the siege tower significantly shortens siege times.

+5 combat strength over a catapult, Cover I promotion in place, +1 Sight, and +200% bonus vs Cities = the best melee unit for siegework in the early game. Add the buff aura as well, and 2-3 CBs and a tower or 2 can capture a city pretty damn quick. The UA synergises well too, as you can concentrate on military and production techs and let the UA get you the rest.

Assyria has weaknesses, definitely, but the UU is not one of them.

 

[tetley]

I thought what you did on paper, but when I played deity for real I was begging to get my cats back. Siege engines are of no help against units--in fact, other units have to help them to survive. And then that means you don't get experience unless you're either getting hit or attacking a city. And even if you level up, you have to promotion save because your melee unit upgrades to a ranged. I rocked & rolled with Attila's battering ram, but the siege engine I don't like so much. I think I like Rome's the best (maybe because it synergizes with Legion's roads).

 

[Suicidekills]

Maybe tetley you waited too long to go to war. My diety game i was able to take out Egypt's capital by turn 60 with 2 archers 3 chariot archers a siege tower a warrior and a spearman with little resistance. And yea the siege tower helped.

 

[tetley]

Turn 75, Celts, Goddess of protection, surrounded by forest. The city gets TWO free shots because you have to move the siege right next to the city to even get the bonus.