[NFP] Barbarian Clans Game Mode Discussion

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I am especially curious how the barb behaviour will change.

• If you can bribe them to attack other civs, do they scout their territory first or will they immidiately attack them?
• How will the mode affect the agressiveness of barbs?
• Different camps from the same clan, will they cooperate or does each camp has its own "agendas"? If each camp has their own agenda how are we enable to distinguish between "our friendly barbarian neighbour" with the others?

I suppose that CS will not be able to interact with barbs. On the other hand other civs will probably bribe barbs to attack you a lot. Curious whether a bribed camp can be bribed again and whether it has a cooldown period.

Kupe on its own continent can grow a lot of his own CS in his vicinity.

 

[Abaxial]

It would be fun if barbarian clans can go to war with each other. In Civ V city states could decalre war on each other, which was interesting.

One important thing though - as it is, barbarian camps can spring up any number of times. Is this still going to happen, or will there be six camps initially and no new ones thereafter?

 

[ehecatzin]

I hope there is an interaction with missionaries. Getting barbs to adopt your religion should be a big step toward civilizing them. Maybe an apostle promotion that helps with it.

There is already a promotion that allows you to convert barbarians if I'm not mistaken, never take it, however, If I've got a juicy barbarian clan pumping out legions, It will be worth considering now.

 

[Jimdigriz]

I hope they get this Game mode right as it sounds great! Secret Societies is definitely not for me but this one certainly is.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

There is already a promotion that allows you to convert barbarians if I'm not mistaken, never take it, however, If I've got a juicy barbarian clan pumping out legions, It will be worth considering now.

There is indeed one. Heathen Conversion, it is called.

 

[Josephias]

Tiger Fang Clan: ?

This one looks like spawned on a floodplain.

Is that a Tiger Fang?. It looked a Cake to me, but I guess it is not .. next guess was a helmet, but seeing it spawns in floodplain, I'm leaning now towards a tent and it being the Desert Barbarians.

One important thing though - as it is, barbarian camps can spring up any number of times. Is this still going to happen, or will there be six camps initially and no new ones thereafter?

My guess (but it is just a guess), is you might have several instances of the same clan, and each encampment will have its progress bar. Once one of the encampments becomes a city state, all other encampments from that clan dissapear. It would be a pity to only have 6 barbarian camps on a 12-player game.

There is already a promotion that allows you to convert barbarians if I'm not mistaken, never take it, however, If I've got a juicy barbarian clan pumping out legions, It will be worth considering now.

There is indeed one. Heathen Conversion, it is called.

Ahh, yes the ol'misunderestood Heathen Conversion. Normally it is not in the priority list of anyone, but comes in handy with these barbarian tundra islands if you can make a beachead.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Is that a Tiger Fang?. It looked a Cake to me, but I guess it is not .. next guess was a helmet, but seeing it spawns in floodplain, I'm leaning now towards a tent and it being the Desert Barbarians.

I see a fox head, but why have a full outline of a fox as the symbol for the hills clan, if that's what it is?
I too think that it's a desert clan I just can't make out what the symbol is.

 

[SaboteurINT]

Barbarians` mode can generate a situation, that:
- Aztecs can have Conquistador LOL
- Arabia can have Legions.LOL
- Norway can have Varu LOL
- America can have Cossacks LOL
- England can have U-boot LOL
- Colombia can have Samurai. Samurai in the jungle, that`s it. LOL
- Pericles leads Immortals
- Hungary never sea-bordered, but with Minas Geraes,
- and Ngao Mbeba garrisoned in Stockholm.

I have nothing against, that is only a game which shall bring fun

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Barbarians` mode can generate a situation, that:
- Aztecs can have Conquistador LOL
- Arabia can have Legions.LOL
- Norway can have Varu LOL
- America can have Cossacks LOL
- England can have U-boot LOL
- Colombia can have Samurai. Samurai in the jungle, that`s it. LOL
- Pericles leads Immortals
- Hungary never sea-bordered, but with Minas Geraes,
- and Ngao Mbeba garrisoned in Stockholm.

I have nothing against, that is only a game which shall bring fun

Also Nubia with Hul'che and Byzantium with War Carts and Varu early game.

 

[Leucarum]

Barbarians` mode can generate a situation, that:
- Aztecs can have Conquistador LOL
- Arabia can have Legions.LOL
- Norway can have Varu LOL
- America can have Cossacks LOL
- England can have U-boot LOL
- Colombia can have Samurai. Samurai in the jungle, that`s it. LOL
- Pericles leads Immortals
- Hungary never sea-bordered, but with Minas Geraes,
- and Ngao Mbeba garrisoned in Stockholm.

I have nothing against, that is only a game which shall bring fun

This might be most impactful for civs like America, Canada and Australia whose UUs come relatively late. Giving them access to improved units early could be a nice equalizer.

Also imagine how fast a Gran Colombian Pitati will move or a Vietnamese Ngao Mbeba...

 

[UWHabs]

This might be most impactful for civs like America, Canada and Australia whose UUs come relatively late. Giving them access to improved units early could be a nice equalizer.

Also imagine how fast a Gran Colombian Pitati will move or a Vietnamese Ngao Mbeba...

I wonder how many you'll be able to recruit. You're still limited to only 1 every 10 turns, and each time, it boosts their progress to civilizing. But even a couple units could make all the difference. And might not even just be UU - being able to convert a barbarian horseman presumably without needing the 20 horses could be huge on an early rush.

 

[nzcamel]

I LOVE this. Possibly best game mode so far.

Looking at all the changes brought by this mode in detail, they ironically seem to make barbarians less barbaric...

I think that is less ironic, and a bit more true to life.

There is already a promotion that allows you to convert barbarians if I'm not mistaken, never take it, however, If I've got a juicy barbarian clan pumping out legions, It will be worth considering now.

There is indeed one. Heathen Conversion, it is called.

Yeah, but it would be nice to have another religious interaction with them that can convert them not to your civ, but to your religion, which speeds up their becoming a CS.

 

[Abaxial]

I think it is interesting that the last two game modes receive all the plaudits. If only they had been released first, instead of the awful apocalypse mode, for instance, how much better would have been the reaction. If apocalypse came out now, people would be saying, "OK, this is lame, but we had the great barbarians mode, so we're happy". Bad psychology.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I think it is interesting that the last two game modes receive all the plaudits. If only they had been released first, instead of the awful apocalypse mode, for instance, how much better would have been the reaction. If apocalypse came out now, people would be saying, "OK, this is lame, but we had the great barbarians mode, so we're happy". Bad psychology.

Zhuangzi recorded an ancient Chinese anecdote that goes like this:


There was a monkey-trainer that can understand monkey's language. One day, he decided to talk to monkeys about their daily rations.

"I'll give you 3 chestnuts every morning and 4 every evening," he said, "Is that enough?"

All the monkeys became angry.

The monkey-trainer then said: "Well, so what about 4 in the morning and 3 in the evening?"

All the monkeys felt quite satisfied, and accepted the new arrangements.

 

[Abaxial]

Or alternatively, the practice (mentioned in the Bible) of serving the best wine first and moving on to the cheaper stuff later on.

 

[Datgingah]

I LOVE this. Possibly best game mode so far.

Yeah, but it would be nice to have another religious interaction with them that can convert them not to your civ, but to your religion, which speeds up their becoming a CS.

"Every 50 religious pressure a barb camp receives (rounded down) from non-passive sources, the camp gains 5 CS points. Barb camps receive +1 CS point a turn for every 50 points of passive religious pressure. Both are tripled if running heathen conversion. Barbs following a religion do not gain religious bonuses, but will not attack religious units of the same religion."

Just a demo idea, but I think that would fit well - and add to the idea that organized religion helped push a lot of government centralization throughout history.

 

[King William I]

Me and a buddy were talking about some scenarios that could come from this mode. Like Genghis Khan with Tagmas, or Ambiorix with Eagle Warriors.

 

[UWHabs]

Me and a buddy were talking about some scenarios that could come from this mode. Like Genghis Khan with Tagmas, or Ambiorix with Eagle Warriors.

Genghis can already get Tagmas, since the capture ability works on UU already.

The bigger ones would be if China spawned next to an Eagle Warrior camp, suddenly you could have Qin using eagles to create builders for his wonders. Or as mentioned by someone else, Gran Colombia with Pitati Archers. Or anyone with a combat bonus gaining a strong early unit like Eagles or War Carts. Like, if you are on the same continent as Rough Rider Teddy, and he starts coming at you with some War Carts? Ouch.

 

[Phoenix1595]

So what's the consensus of what you guys will do with Barb camps now?

I will continue to wipe out camps too close for comfort, but I fully intend to pull a Tyrion/Tywin Lannister and bribe and cajole clans to look the other way and attack my neighbors instead. I also really like the idea of CS conversion. To be honest, I feel like all city-states should start like this.

 

[Datgingah]

I will continue to wipe out camps too close for comfort, but I fully intend to pull a Tyrion/Tywin Lannister and bribe and cajole clans to look the other way and attack my neighbors instead. I also really like the idea of CS conversion. To be honest, I feel like all city-states should start like this.

The problem is it would mess with things currently relying on early city states - like political philosophy, or the entire civ of Hungary. But potentially if they made envoys or other diplomatic tools able to be sent to these barb camps to increase rate of conversion, it might barely work out in time?