Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Arachnofiend]

The change of Carthage to anything but Hannibal was just silly.

A general that's famous for losing to Rome isn't much better than a semi-mythic founder, really.

 

[Art Grin]

A general that's famous for losing to Rome isn't much better than a semi-mythic founder, really.

He'd look fine among some other G&K leaders like "I lead 80.000 people to their death and lost" Boudicca, "I died of nosebleed" Attila and "I wasn't even a ruler" Theodora.

 

[Arachnofiend]

That is true, heheh. It just seems silly to me to assume Hannibal is the best option for Carthage when he was such a hilarious failure, especially since so many of these people are critical of Boudicca for doing just as terribly in her fight against Rome.

 

[Snoopaloop]

A general that's famous for losing to Rome isn't much better than a semi-mythic founder, really.

I would say the famous general (one of the most famous of all time) who was certainty not a mythical person would have been the better inclusion. Especially since he also has a history of being included in the series, and many fans were quite attached to his AI presence.

The worst part about Dido is that she is lack-luster in game. No real unique personality, her background is the most eye catching part of her leader screen. As if she is not even there, Carthage might be in my game, but she is as fun to verse as a city state.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Yeah see that's... Not even true? She's the game's prime backstabber, with her as a neighbor I'm in just as much "oh bring out the military units" mode as I would be with neighbor Monty.

 

[ferretbacon]

Yeah see that's... Not even true? She's the game's prime backstabber, with her as a neighbor I'm in just as much "oh bring out the military units" mode as I would be with neighbor Monty.

Seriously. She's in the current game I have going. I had all sorts of positive modifiers with her. But I knew better. Sure enough, she declared war on me without even the slightest provocation. She is the backstabber in the game. Can't ever let your guard down with her.

 

[Godswood]

I'd actually like if Hungary were included. I can see Árpád or whatever leading them.

Ancient (but not that ancient) Israel would also be nice, since it actually does have some potential. But seeing as Jerusalem remains a city state, there's no hope for that.

 

[True_Candyman]

Yeah see that's... Not even true? She's the game's prime backstabber, with her as a neighbor I'm in just as much "oh bring out the military units" mode as I would be with neighbor Monty.

This. I was unmoved by her inclusion and Carthage in general, but her personality in game has made me love Carthage, to play for and against

 

[Emperor Giulio]

Italians and Romans aren't exactly the same people though. Modern Italians are descendants of the intermixing of the original Roman population of Italy and the Germanic peoples(Goth, Lombards etc) that settled there after the 5th century A.D.
They're more like half-Romans, but living in the same place.

I look at it this way, if mostly Amerindian-Mexicans can be proud of being decedents of Aztecs despite inter-mixture with Spaniards; than Italians can celebrate being Roman in the same way. At the very least modern Italians are probably the most closely related to them.

Edit: When I mean Romans, I mean the original Italic tribes that composed the region of Italy in the Roman Empire. Sorry, I tend to have a nationalistic slant on what I meant by that. No doubt that they are not completely 100% the same, and there are pockets of other ethnicity that are more pronounced throughout the peninsula, but I believe it's at least mostly the same. I admit, I'm no geneticist, but but perhaps it's more like 75% for most Italians?

There's definitely visible elements of other Germanic, Celtic, and Mediterranean ethnic groups because of invasions, and immigration. But I believe the base of the biological make up of Italians come from those original various italic tribes.


I think it's a similar scenario with the English. Most people from England actually trace their roots mostly back to the original pre-roman, Celts. Despite the fact that most of them had believed to related to the Anglo-Saxon invaders.

 

[LonleyStrategos]

A general that's famous for losing to Rome isn't much better than a semi-mythic founder, really.

I don't remember him for losing to Rome. I remember him for defeating Rome many times at a numerical disadvantage. I don't think there is any Carthaginian leader who sacrificed more than he did. The end of his campaign against the Romans was kind of tragic. He came so close yet fell so short.

 

[LonleyStrategos]

That is true, heheh. It just seems silly to me to assume Hannibal is the best option for Carthage when he was such a hilarious failure, especially since so many of these people are critical of Boudicca for doing just as terribly in her fight against Rome.

Well... the majority of Boudicca's victories where at a numerical advantage. Sure
Hannibal 's defeat was ridden with bad decisions, but when he did win, he won spectacularly. You can't compare the battle of Zama to the battle of Watling Street. Her men got trapped in their own barricades for pete's sake .

 

[steveg700]

Seriously. She's in the current game I have going. I had all sorts of positive modifiers with her. But I knew better. Sure enough, she declared war on me without even the slightest provocation. She is the backstabber in the game. Can't ever let your guard down with her.

Well, that's the AI. For the most part, they're all quite willing to backstab. Their script is not to seek peace unless provoked. They seek war unless deterred.

Dennis Shirk even spoke to this tendency during the preview, stating that they were endeavoring to modify this behavior.

 

[Arachnofiend]

No, Dido's AI is specifically garnered towards pretending to be friendly right before DOW'ing you, more than any of the other leaders. Compare with Alex, who prefers to make it quite obvious to you and everyone else how puny you are.

 

[steveg700]

Well... the majority of Boudicca's victories where at a numerical advantage. Sure
Hannibal 's defeat was ridden with bad decisions, but when he did win, he won spectacularly. You can't compare the battle of Zama to the battle of Watling Street. Her men got trapped in their own barricades for pete's sake .

Right. Once he got to Italy, Rome had him outmannged and outgunned, and things simply didn't go his way. But a lesser man wouldn't have gotten even close to Rome, much less fight an uphill (literally and figuratively) war against them for over a decade.


Link to video.

 

[Gucumatz]

In one of the patches, they even specifically increased Dido's backstabbing flavor. She is supposed to be the least trustworthy civ leader in game

I am playing a Sweden Deity game right now where my only ally is her and I keep waiting for her to turn on me

 

[Tsuchinoko]

In one of the patches, they even specifically increased Dido's backstabbing flavor. She is supposed to be the least trustworthy civ leader in game

Yeah - from my experience, having Dido and Catherine as your neighbours never ends pleasantly. If they start to 'covet your lands' they will almost invariably backstab you at some point in the near future. I sometimes find that Augustus can be a bit like that too.

 

[ferretbacon]

Mhm, definitely an unstable neighbor; always has a smile on her face and a knife behind her back. It's generally optimal to backstab her before she gets the chance to backstab you, because it's only a matter of time with Dido.

 

[DiogenesK9]

Ugh. If we really want to play this game, I'll lay it out for you.
Culture city-states not yet seen and could be part of a new civ (7/10):
Florence
Bucharest
Yerevan
Milan
Kathmandu
Kuala Lumpur
Brussels

No, I was just having fun with the speculation on this thread. Carry on.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Honestly, I don't think there's any chance at all for an Italian civ. Their capital is Rome, which they call Rome. And there is another city whose name is Rome, and whose capital is Rome, which they call Rome.

That's a very different situation from Constantinopla/Bizantium/Istambul's

EDIT: Yeah I know they call it Roma, but the point still stands.

 

[nunor]

Honestly, I don't think there's any chance at all for an Italian civ. Their capital is Rome, which they call Rome. And there is another city whose name is Rome, and whose capital is Rome, which they call Rome.

That's a very different situation from Constantinopla/Bizantium/Istambul's

If the developers want Italy in, that's not going to hinder them.