Brexit Thread V - The Final Countdown?!?
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That seems to be the idea.
I guess the EU did want to offer something in order to avoid appearing as unreasonable. The delay offers the opportunity for the UK parliament to vote for something while at the same time it applies pressure to vote for something and makes clear that this is going to be the last vote they will get. Two weeks extra don't hurt anybody and ensure that the UK will not mess with the elections. This was probably the compromise between those who would have liked to end this right now and those who were somewhat sympathetic to the UK.
I might have said, "the empress has no plan," but that would imply that she's merely deluded and has been tricked into it by scheming sycophants. Nearly three years in, this is all her own doing.
I thought it was pretty elegant too.
Well, this farce's been about staying in power since the beginning, for Cameron and for everybody else, so it's just… following the plot, I suppose.
*minus that couple excursions into Celtic Britain, of course.
The plan is to wing it. And stay in power. And wing it a bit more. It's like Julius Cæsar, including attacking the French and Germans and blaming them for it, but without the brilliance, the conquests, the flair, or the good weather*.
*minus that couple excursions into Celtic Britain, of course.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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But she is not being idiot in doing that. They are adversaries in a diplomatic negotiation, and committing to anything without gaining anything new in exchange would be a mistake. She is fully right to preserve the UK's freedom of action there.
In any case everyone already knew what could happen if the WA was voted down again: more of this (the "extension", which is exactly what she went there to ask about), or exit without any deal. Those are the only real options available. Asking May what she intends to do if the WA is again not approved is pointless.
If indeed the EU is offering some extension, that is because it has no good way out of the "irish border" problem it created for itself. The "backstop", the one point that has prevented their agreement from being approved, was allegedly necessary because a border in Ireland would not be allowed to happen. Yet without an agreement that border inevitably happens. By poisoning the agreement with the backstop, the EU will bring about the very thing it allegedly was determined to avoid, and bring it about now, not at the end of 2020 or some other chosen time period. This is just stupid, indefensible. And it is not the UK's government wanting to have it all for a change, it is the EU. I tries to explain here that contradiction to someone from Ireland a few months back... basically the irish government was playing with fire. I still think it will get burned, with no sympathy from the other EU power brokers that because of this failed to get their desired agreement through.
Ahh, I see here the logic for that April 12 as date for the short extension if the vote on the May deal is negative.
UK election law demands 6 weeks between announcing and the EU election.
If by April 12 that announcement has not been made, there cannot be an election (unless that law is ofc changed before)
UK election law demands 6 weeks between announcing and the EU election.
If by April 12 that announcement has not been made, there cannot be an election (unless that law is ofc changed before)
Ajidica
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The time for canny negotiation by Empress May is long gone. Right now the UK stands a very good chance of crashing out of the EU which even you, with your EU hate-boner, must agree is not a Good Thing.
Tell me
How much personal experience, or 100% genuine first hand inside experience, have you with negotiations that support that binary conclusion ?
And not about getting a discount on buying your TV when you buy something else as well.
innonimatu
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That is a rather odd excuse as the UK has already repealed portions of the European Parliamentary Elections Act 2002 that dealt with reviews of its constituencies, and allowed the periods that had been in that law to pass.
I guess Parliament could pass a new law to redo that prior to the election. Or just say that it could proceed without reviewing the constituencies for population changes, but that would allow people to sue over misrepresentation if they wanted to throw some more confusion into things.
Worse than leaving well prepared, but better that staying. As things stand my opinion is that crashing out is still the lesser evil.
You must have noticed that I am averse to handing out identifiable details about myself? It's a won't answer. I only say that I am very sure of my conclusion but anyone is free to disagree.
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She was there to gain an extension, which she could only get from them and which she went there specifically to request. It was an entirely one-sided supplication and yet she refused to make it easier upon herself.
innonimatu
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Perhaps she is just fumbling. Incompetence can explain much. But I still thing she is playing the blame game for the after-brexit, and her attack on Parliament yesterday just reinforced that suspicion I had.
I mean, she must know by now that the odds of getting that WA through won't increase because an extension was granted?
If anything, it'll encourage another period of silly ideas, alternatives to the deal, being revived because there is time. New excuses to vote against the WA. Look at this revival of the "cancel brexit" thing: now an MP can vote against "May's deal" claiming that he wants a cancellation of Article 50 (never mind the fact that the EU wasn't even asked if it would accept a cancellation). Or to use an extension to negotiate some new deal. More of the same...
If I was active in british politics on the side of no-deal bexit in the event of an extension or another vote I'd start a Article 50 revocation petition myself, had someone not done so already! If everyone is playing machiavelic, play or get out.
She bet everything on forcing it through under threat of no-deal exit and failed already.
I mean, she must know by now that the odds of getting that WA through won't increase because an extension was granted?
If anything, it'll encourage another period of silly ideas, alternatives to the deal, being revived because there is time. New excuses to vote against the WA. Look at this revival of the "cancel brexit" thing: now an MP can vote against "May's deal" claiming that he wants a cancellation of Article 50 (never mind the fact that the EU wasn't even asked if it would accept a cancellation). Or to use an extension to negotiate some new deal. More of the same...
If I was active in british politics on the side of no-deal bexit in the event of an extension or another vote I'd start a Article 50 revocation petition myself, had someone not done so already! If everyone is playing machiavelic, play or get out.
She bet everything on forcing it through under threat of no-deal exit and failed already.
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FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
The UK could try and make use of the 14 day extension to prepare for a hard brexit ?
Dose the UK even have a plan in place for all those Polish Plumbers and workers currently in the UK ? There's around 3.8 Mil EU citizens currently working in the UK
Dose the UK even have a plan in place for all those Polish Plumbers and workers currently in the UK ? There's around 3.8 Mil EU citizens currently working in the UK
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I'm shocked you'd say such a thing! Shocked!
And we should very seriously consider the possibility that sexism and rape apology are the true causes of Brexit not having been properly implemented yet.
Actually... wait a minute. That's totally a possible sell. Something, something filthy continentals, Rape of Belgium, we'll throw in a grabby mime with the appropriate accent... can somebody fetch a camera and call Kate Smurthwaite?
We can have this uploaded before lunch.
Yesterday evening the 90 minutes that May negotiated with the EU PM's:
Strong and stable with grace and a deft touch.
De Volkskrant of NL
I translate that:
And that third line is telling !
EU: "What arguments do you have for your request to postpone 3 months ?"
May: "uh uh"
EU: "Why is Parliament, after two times rejecting, going to say this third time "yes" on the deal ?"
May: "uh uh"
May: "the EU has always a last minute solution...... isn't that so ?"
END
Strong and stable with grace and a deft touch.
De Volkskrant of NL
I translate that:
And that third line is telling !
EU: "What arguments do you have for your request to postpone 3 months ?"
May: "uh uh"
EU: "Why is Parliament, after two times rejecting, going to say this third time "yes" on the deal ?"
May: "uh uh"
May: "the EU has always a last minute solution...... isn't that so ?"
END
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EnglishEdward
Deity
As the countdown has been reset back by 14 days, the thread title minght be better renamed:
Brexit Thread V - The Not So Final Countdown?!?
I suppose I should tell the agency to send the cancellation charge,
for the giant cake and jump out dancing girl, to number ten.
Brexit Thread V - The Not So Final Countdown?!?
I suppose I should tell the agency to send the cancellation charge,
for the giant cake and jump out dancing girl, to number ten.
I saw that the extra imported champaign over the last months (year ?) was 15 million bottles
May has achieved something. I can't recall the TUC and CBI sending a joint letter to the PM ever before https://www.theguardian.com/politic...cbi-write-to-may-pleading-for-a-brexit-plan-b
Lexicus
Deity
TUC is presumably Trade Union Congress but what is CBI? Apologies for asking, but that FT article is behind a paywall for me.
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