[BtS] Aybraus's Pitboss

Wasn't there a more recent autosave? There should be an autosave from the last time each player logged in at the following location, no?

\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves\pitboss\auto\

This has the potential to be quite game changing for me since the animals now have a second chance to eat my settler.. :sad: :(
 
This is the turn the game went down so not sure what the problem is...
 
No, it wasn't the turn that the game went down. adrianJ was subbing for me, and he had already played in that turn, hit end turn, and played in the turn afterwards as well. So the reload was back 2 turns for me.

Regardless, the net effect is that I replayed my moves and this time, incredibly, the panther DID eat my warrior + settler (on a forested hill, with 1.2% odds). That's not how it happened originally. The first time around, the warrior won (at 98.8% odds).

Now, I don't want to sound like a bad sport but this is obviously
- a) game changing
- b) unfair

I understand there are going to be technical problems but losing a settler at 1.2% odds because of a reload is ridiculous. Sorry to have to ask this, but please can I request a reload so that I can replay my moves as they actually happened?

Thanks,
Munro
 
I would have to agree with munro on this one!
 
We should reload instead of continuing....I also want to note that I was looking on civstats...and it says there is a "Turn Limit" for this game at 127 turns....the game itself says a 500 turn limit as a normal length game...which is correct?...if that is truly the case(127), then continuing a game that will "end" in another 86 turns is kinda pointless.
 
the game itself is correct of course... civstats is something you set manually...
 
I guess Aybraus is away? I did also PM him about the reload but haven't heard anything back.

I have an out of town trip starting early tomorrow and will be back on Oct 21st (11 days). I have a sub lined up but if I don't hear back before I leave, I'll just kick it to AI since I am not really that interested in playing on as things stand.

Hopefully we can still get this sorted out though. Aybraus?
 
I received a response from Aybraus:

Munro said:
Hi,

Just wondering if you saw my post in the pitboss thread? That last reload screwed me over - I replayed my turns but they turned out completely differently and I lost my settler + warrior to a panther at 1.2% odds.

Please can you reload it again from the same point so we can recreate it how it originally happened? I am not really interested in playing on as it stands.

Thanks,
Munro
Click to expand...
I reloaded the turn without knowing that it would impact you, so it's completely fair play if you happened to be less lucky on the reload. It's like messing up when dealing a poker hand--it doesn't matter if one player had a royal flush, the cards have to be redealt because one player got an extra card.

I'm not going to reload the turn precisely BECAUSE you had bad luck. I have to be fair to the other players, who have exposed themselves to such randomness as much as you have.
Click to expand...

Aybraus, I take your point but I don't think this is the same. In the poker hand, it's not possible to 'replay' the original hand on discovering the extra card, since knowledge of that card fundamentally affects the way that hand will be played. That's not the case here - the only thing preventing us from replaying the moves as they happened is your unwillingness to do so.

Secondly, it's not true that everyone is equally exposed to risk from the reload, since there is very little combat this early in the game. Most likely everyone else was able to replay their moves without any additional risk - certainly not of losing a city or a settler or anything close. So the reload unfairly impacted me (by giving me another chance to lose) - and (most likely) me alone.

If the boot was on the other foot and it was YOU that had lost your settler or city at 1.2% odds due to a technical problem, I would have no objections to a reload, and it seems from the posts above that at least some of the other players feel the same.

If there are (still) no objections from other players, is there any chance you will reconsider? It's supposed to be fun after all.. this is not going to make for an enjoyable game for me.
 
Just asking out of ignorance...but do "other" player moves affect the RNG for Munro's game.

If that is the case, then even if he replayed exactly as before, someone else taking advantage of the reload to "explore" in a different direction, or changing a worker action could cause big problems.

If that is not the case, then i assume that munro/adrianj did not re-execute the moves exactly as intended.

I still favor a reload no matter the circumstances, as munro got totally hosed the second time around through NO fault of his own. If there had NEVER been a reload to begin with, we would not be having this discussion.
 
The RNG would be exactly the same if everyone did exactly the same in exactly the same order... Given that it is terribly unlikely that everything do everything in the same order even if they do the same moves it'll be hard to recreate exactly what happened at any given point in time...
 
Munro said:
No, it wasn't the turn that the game went down. adrianJ was subbing for me, and he had already played in that turn, hit end turn, and played in the turn afterwards as well. So the reload was back 2 turns for me.

Regardless, the net effect is that I replayed my moves and this time, incredibly, the panther DID eat my warrior + settler (on a forested hill, with 1.2% odds). That's not how it happened originally. The first time around, the warrior won (at 98.8% odds).

Now, I don't want to sound like a bad sport but this is obviously
- a) game changing
- b) unfair

I understand there are going to be technical problems but losing a settler at 1.2% odds because of a reload is ridiculous. Sorry to have to ask this, but please can I request a reload so that I can replay my moves as they actually happened?

Thanks,
Munro
Click to expand...

Thing is, what if the first time your units were killled by the panther? Would we reload 100 times until we got the same result again?
The pre-reload game becomes non-existent. The reload becomes the actual game.

Personally I think the policy is that whatever happens during the reload should stand, although we could make an exception in this case since we haven't discussed it yet and made a rule.
 
Well, strict rules can be useful, but they should also be reasonable and fair - otherwise the game just stops being fun. And in the case of reloads, IMHO that should mean making a reasonable effort to ensure that no player is unfairly or excessively penalised (or receives an unfair or excessive advantage) as a result of a reload that they had nothing to do with.

Late in the game that probably does mean that the reload should always stand, since there is no practical alternative (and the impact of each individual RNG is so much less anyway) - but here we could easily have honoured the original (and overwhelmingly likely) outcome, and allowed my game to remain competitive and fun.

Anyway - that's just my view, but this issue (and the clear differences in philosophy by which this game is being run) have killed my interest in continuing. Sorry to throw an AI into the mix, but I am going to be retiring from the game instead.

Good luck with the rest of the game, and sorry we couldn't reach an agreement on this.

Munro
 
I really don't like an AI being in the game already because it can screw up the balance, it is basically free land and cities for anyone near Munro's civ.

Can we reload this one time? It is going to decrease the quality of the game, I believe, and it all was just a matter of luck.
 
As someone obsessed with mathematics and probability, I know that this is NOT fair to the other players, and I consider it bad sportsmanship to quit the game after a stroke of bad luck.

But worse than an unfair game is a nonexistent game, and I should have made that clear. I'll do the reboot on October 12, when I'm able to access my server. Until then, create alternate history I suppose. From now on, all reboots are final for everyone.

This is actually probably a good thing, since I've been on a short-term-notice trip since yesterday and have had my (civ iv tenderfoot) sibling play for both me and holplos. She's been following my directions via phone, but still...
 
should we make a rule though, that if at war a person can not make different moves after a reload? Because they might have discovered new information after their previous move... they shouldn't be able to take that information into account, I think.
 
Levgre said:
should we make a rule though, that if at war a person can not make different moves after a reload? Because they might have discovered new information after their previous move... they shouldn't be able to take that information into account, I think.
Click to expand...
This SHOULD always be the case, even when not at war IMO. Just like a reload from an autosave during a GOTM or SGOTM caused by a computer crash. You are supposed to recreate the moves EXACTLY as the first time around.
 
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