Burial Tomb in top 5 UB?

[Blueboots]

Besides the Stele and the Pyramid (and maybe the Floating Gardens), is there any reason why Burial Tomb shouldn't be considered #4 or #5?

The +2 is useful in any scenario (during any era), especially with the clash of ideologies late-game. The no maintenance makes it a viable early-game building--a circus on steroids (or half a luxury). Also, it makes getting the grand temple an easier feat, contributing to offensive and defensive religious pressure earlier.

Does anyone actually consider the capturing penalty a serious downside?

I usually play a faith/piety game, so a +2 , +3 , and +25% building is hard to turn down, I feel.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Asklepios]

For Deity, its mostly the context that lets it down: its a building that gives faith on a civ that has little chance of getting a dominant religion. As a temple isn't something you "want early anyway" on anything but a faith game, its weakened by that.

I'd actually put Paper Maker ahead of it, as even if its stats are less impressive, it fits better at all levels of play. You're pretty much always going to want a Library in every city, and no strategy is hurt by early gold.

 

[danaphanous]

I like it, I don't know if it's as useful as a few other UB, but the no maintenance certainly sells it to me more than I'd thought before. That's -2 gold on every temple! I usually play piety game too. Say, does the +2 happiness to temples work on it? So could I get +4 happiness on the thing? If so, a super-temple strategy might be fun taking the +2 cultuare and happiness follower beliefs. that'd be one epic temple. Obviously probably not as good as an extra religious building but if they're gone not a bad choice, plus you don't need faith to buy it.

 

[BrokTheFanatic]

It is really good but faith doesn't directly win you games. So I like it purely for the happiness which can be increased another +2 with the belief and 5 followers in a city (which is usually pretty easy to get).

At +4 happiness per temple you can go really wide as well as goto war and directly annex cities, just have to make sure you keep converting cities you take. With 1 point in Piety shrines and tamples are built at half cost, this creates a situation that can quickly turn Egypt into a juggernaut. The +2 tides over small cities and then as they grow they eventually get the +4. If you go commerce you can have massive happiness numbers. The downside to Egypt is an early lack of science but it can usually be overcome.

 

[klaskeren]

really good in multiplayer, not as impressive in single player, probably not top 5

 

[Tabarnak]

really good in multiplayer, not as impressive in single player, probably not top 5

Agree.

 

[Vitruvius]

Its free maintenance and can be made into a super temple. +faith is always great. + happiness saves you from making coliseums. You can ignore construction and beeline civil service and education without happiness problems even when going semi wide.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[joncnunn]

Might be top 5 in Vanilla only civs, but my mental check list got to 5 UBs that were better between G&K and Vanilla alone before I even got to BNW UBs.

(Unfortunately, there is a tendency for people when there say something is a top 5 of anything to not consider the full range initially and thus when asked one by one come up with 10 things deserving to be in the top 5.)

 

[peterw1987]

my top 5 will be
1. Stele +2 faith
2. Pyramid +1 faith, +2 science
3. Paper Maker , no gold maintenance, +2 gold
4. Hanse, 5% extra production for each CS trade route
5. Bazaar, extra copy of each luxuries!!!!!

Burial Tomb is one of my top 5 worst UB (#1 Ceilidh Hall). Egypt does not really need that extra happiness, and burial tomb benefits your opponent when they plunder your city.

extra happiness building will always come last in my list. I prefer extra culture>science(only pyramid has this)>gold UB. Hanse is unique thou. The earlier UB also will always rated higher than later UB, that's why I rank stele and pyramid so high.

 

[tat501]

my top 5 will be
1. Stele +2 faith
2. Pyramid +1 faith, +2 science
3. Paper Maker , no gold maintenance, +2 gold
4. Hanse, 5% extra production for each CS trade route
5. Bazaar, extra copy of each luxuries!!!!!

Burial Tomb is one of my top 5 worst UB (#1 Ceilidh Hall). Egypt does not really need that extra happiness, and burial tomb benefits your opponent when they plunder your city.

extra happiness building will always come last in my list. I prefer extra culture>science(only pyramid has this)>gold UB. Hanse is unique thou. The earlier UB also will always rated higher than later UB, that's why I rank stele and pyramid so high.

Hanse's got to be higher hasn't it? Its so incredibly powerful and synergyses well with Germany's industrial strength. Similary - I think the Floating gardens is overlooked quite often. In some ways I get it - its situational - but anything adding a percentage modifier can be very powerful (and is very rare). Other than that - yeah the Mayan Pyramid is strong - as is the bazaar and the stele.

 

[LoneRebel]

The Hanse though requires you to make trade routes with city-states, which aren't as valuable as trade routes to civs.

It's quite noticeable when trade routes to civs get over 20 gold per turn, and Germany is stuck making trade routes to CS for 12 gpt.

Another, more subtle downside is that CS won't give a quest to send them a trade route if you're already sending them a trade route, so Germany won't receive as many of these quests.

 

[klaskeren]

1. Floating gardens
2. Pyramid
3. Steele
4. Ikanda
5. Bazaar

 

[kamex]

Besides the Stele and the Pyramid (and maybe the Floating Gardens), is there any reason why Burial Tomb shouldn't be considered #4 or #5?

The +2 is useful in any scenario (during any era), especially with the clash of ideologies late-game. The no maintenance makes it a viable early-game building--a circus on steroids (or half a luxury). Also, it makes getting the grand temple an easier feat, contributing to offensive and defensive religious pressure earlier.

Does anyone actually consider the capturing penalty a serious downside?

I usually play a faith/piety game, so a +2 , +3 , and +25% building is hard to turn down, I feel.

What does everyone else think?

I only play Emperor but its my fave UB... Double build speed from piety plus belief buffs, potentially +4 happy make it pretty insane for wide.

 

[Talamare]

Godly for going Wide, especially since Piety opener allows you to quickly build it in every new city

 

[Babri]

my top 5 will be

Burial Tomb is one of my top 5 worst UB (#1 Ceilidh Hall). Egypt does not really need that extra happiness, and burial tomb benefits your opponent when they plunder your city.

extra happiness building will always come last in my list. I prefer extra culture>science(only pyramid has this)>gold UB. Hanse is unique thou. The earlier UB also will always rated higher than later UB, that's why I rank stele and pyramid so high.

Why not ? Go for rapid expansion as Egypt & you'll love burial tombs. And I don't know why are you considering the plundering as that much of an issue. Good players rarely loose cities !

Also as other pointed out Hanse has it's share of weakness as well, due to weak nature of CS trade routes. My list would go as follows:-

1. Pyramid (Maya)
2. Bazar
3. Floating Gardens
4. Stele
5. Paper Maker

I only play Emperor but its my fave UB... Double build speed from piety plus belief buffs, potentially +4 happy make it pretty insane for wide.

Good point.

 

[Talamare]

Why not ? Go for rapid expansion as Egypt & you'll love burial tombs. And I don't know why are you considering the plundering as that much of an issue. Good players rarely loose cities !

Tall doesn't really need happiness

Egypt is interesting that they have bonuses for both Tall and Wide

+20% Wonders is directed towards Tall
+2 Happiness on an early building is directed towards Wide

If you play 1 way, you will probably not see the strength of the other way. Ethiopia is fairly similar in this I suppose, but their tall option is not as amazing imo

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Egypt is a civ made for all playstyles:

Compare them to huns they are maybe just a little behind on the rush front but still one of the better rusher thanks to the war chariot a unit that atleast in early civ 5 days was common on which UU is the worst one, however I have used this unit effectivly up to pickes and killed of whole continents with these

The advantage of the huns come from the burial tomb 2 atleast extra happines from each of these but that is not the whoul story.
Pick piety and they get cheap, get a religion and they can give you more happines.
One good idea is to pick the extra tempel happines as Egypt, don't pick faith building because even if they will pay back their faith they take their time and if you used that faith on missions your religion can become very dominating giving you very large advantage.

The wonder bonus in my opinion is the least valuble thing this civ offers, nice to have but just nice to have the UU and UB is what make this civ what it is

 

[Calouste]

The Hanse though requires you to make trade routes with city-states, which aren't as valuable as trade routes to civs.

It's quite noticeable when trade routes to civs get over 20 gold per turn, and Germany is stuck making trade routes to CS for 12 gpt.

Another, more subtle downside is that CS won't give a quest to send them a trade route if you're already sending them a trade route, so Germany won't receive as many of these quests.

Trade routes to city states are pretty valuable when you can't have trade routes to other civs because you are at war with your neighbors. You'll have a big, cheap army as Germany, what else are you going to do when you run out of barbarians?

 

[InspCallahan]

The Hanse is in my opinion the most powerful UB in the game. You can get up to 12 trade routes I believe (assuming Petra and the Colossus). If that's correct, you can get up to a 60% production bonus IN ALL CITIES once you have those trade routes going. This is a bonus no other civ can replicate; Germany is capable of almost twice the production of other civs.

It also has great synergy with the Freedom policy that makes you gain influence with CSs you have a trade route with.

 

[reddishrecue]

If I was after Thebes then the burials tomb will benefit me because if I were to capture Thebes, I know that I would get an extra sum of gold by capturing the burial tomb and in addition to the gold that you get from capturing the city of thebes itself. ..