[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

1. If we only get one North American (Maya) and one South American (GC) civ like in previous expacks (Cree/Mapuche, Canada/Inca), then we don't get a western American civ. The Navajo (or maybe the Apache) seem like such a logical fit for the game, and if we have Cahokia it seems fitting for us to get a Pueblo and/or Haida CS. But that can't happen this season if the other six slots are dedicated to other parts of the map.

As I've stated before I think the first pack was only representing the "Latin American World" not all of the Americas. I'm pretty hopeful about another North American Civ.
Probably pack 6 to go along with the new map, an Americas Map and TSL. I agree with the Navajo being a logical fit unless they decide to go with the Iroquois again, but with the amount of returning civs it could easily go to a new tribe.

2. We have Khmer, but no Vietnam/Hanoi, Burma/Pagan, or Siam/Bangkok. I actually think Burma ought to be a civ in its own right alongside Vietnam, and yet we will almost certainly not get both this season. But even if we only got Pagan or Hanoi, that still leaves three very large, influential empires that will likely not all get civ/CS representation in New Frontier. Until we have all three, I don't think SE Asia feels very complete at all when we have Babylon and Akkadia, Ireland and Wales, Swahili and Madagascar, Kanem-Bornu and Nok, so many other empire-dense regions fully fleshed out by city-states while we have nothing but Khmer on the SE Asian Mainland.

I'm expecting a SEA or East Asian representation because there weren't any in GS. If East Asia is covered by possible Mongolia or Korea alt leader I'm sure SE Asia will get another Civ from there.

(2.5 We also don't have Helsinki or Copenhagen or Vienna as CS's yet, and it would still be nice to see a Lhasa CS, maybe even Yakutsk to give us some Siberia/Sakha representation, or Honolulu or T'ui Tonga to help fill out the Polynesian triangle. Point being not even the city-state list as a whole feels complete yet.)

There is still another set of city-states to be released. Its not a make or break deal for me if every culture isn't represented with a city-state, even though it would be nice.

3. To a much lesser extent (because we already have Preslav and Antioch) Bulgaria deserves a shot, and yet the science slot has already been taken by the Maya and players really want Byzantium. I don't see both Byzantium and Bulgaria happening this season, but it's also one of those regions where--if I take VI's "gap-filling" philosophy literally, which although could be wrong still very much seems to hold true so far--I don't see it being completed this season, but I also don't consider the game feeling "complete" without both civs.

If we got another new European civ I would choose Italy, but between Portugal and Byzantines happening I don't see that happening. There's so many European possibilities that I don't see Bulgaria happening either, but I wouldn't say the game would be uncomplete without them as they've never appeared before.

4. To an even lesser extent (because we have Fez and Muscat and Zanzibar added in expansions, not even in the base game), I think Morocco/Berbers/Numidia and Oman/Swahili do a very good job of filling large geographic, cultural gaps on the map. Again, I think the game wouldn't feel very complete without them, but I also don't see both happening this season, although we do stand a solid chance of seeing one or the other.

North Africa is interesting because I can see the need for a Civ there, but it's not a priority for me. I think Africa has shaped up nicely. Interestingly the design of Arabia with Saladin and Mamluks, and the Ottomans with Barbary Corsairs, have ties into North Africa/Maghreb region. The Arabians in the game, however don't just describe the people of the Arabian peninsula but of all the medieval Arab world, which would include Morocco.
If we did get a civ from that region Numidia, or any type of Berbers, would be my preference now that Carthage wouldn't take it's spot geographically, but it's a long shot. I don't see Morocco as Fez was just introduced as a new city-state with an interesting and unique suzerain bonus unfortunately.

 

[cosmicmangobear]

I hope we get more content after NFP, there's still so many worthy civs I would love to see represented: Belgium, Berbers, Caribbean, Cherokee, Ireland, Malagasy, Navajo, Philippines... but I guess that's what mods are for.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

As I've stated before I think the first pack was only representing the "Latin American World" not all of the Americas. I'm pretty hopeful about another North American Civ.
Probably pack 6 to go along with the new map, an Americas Map and TSL. I agree with the Navajo being a logical fit unless they decide to go with the Iroquois again, but with the amount of returning civs it could easily go to a new tribe.

Couldn't the map just as easily be Africa or the Middle East though?

This is yet another thing that would feel incomplete to me if we only got the Americas or Africa. Seems like they could at least be keeping an Americas/Africa map in their pocket for future DLC.

I'm expecting a SEA or East Asian representation because there weren't any in GS. If East Asia is covered by possible Mongolia or Korea alt leader I'm sure SE Asia will get another Civ from there.

I am too, but I am pointing out that SE Asia is really far behind in representation, and merely including a civ, or even a civ and a city-state, still leaves the area feeling underdeveloped compared to other regions of the world.

There is still another set of city-states to be released. Its not a make or break deal for me if every culture isn't represented with a city-state, even though it would be nice.

Ah yes you are correct I just looked. Would only five more city-states cover everything? I'm....not sure? Some subset of Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, Bangkok, Pagan/Hanoi, Mesa Verde, Haida Gwaii?

If we got another new European civ I would choose Italy, but between Portugal and Byzantines happening I don't see that happening. There's so many European possibilities that I don't see Bulgaria happening either, but I wouldn't say the game would be uncomplete without them as they've never appeared before.

And yet I still think the game's aims would feel somewhat incomplete without something Italian, at the very least. I also think that Macedon is an awful representation of the Balkans and really is more of a second Persian leader geographically/culturally speaking. Bulgaria at its heights conveniently fills out nearly all of the Balkan and Ukrainian areas not covered by Hungary and Russia, we don't have a south slavic civ, and since Babylon seems unlikely Bulgaria seems the best option for a unique library replacement. Plus, the music would be epic. It has a lot of selling points: size, longevity, influence, distinctiveness...it's really the one new civ outside of Italy that I really think rises to the level of VI's other roster choices, and even higher than potential returning civs like Denmark and Austria.

North Africa is interesting because I can see the need for a Civ there, but it's not a priority for me. I think Africa has shaped up nicely. Interestingly the design of Arabia with Saladin and Mamluks, and the Ottomans with Barbary Corsairs, have ties into North Africa/Maghreb region. The Arabians in the game, however don't just describe the people of the Arabian peninsula but of all the medieval Arab world, which would include Morocco.
If we did get a civ from that region Numidia, or any type of Berbers, would be my preference now that Carthage wouldn't take it's spot geographically, but it's a long shot. I don't see Morocco as Fez was just introduced as a new city-state with an interesting and unique suzerain bonus unfortunately.

Yes, for a time I was wondering if we might get a western Arabic caliph for Arabia, but it doesn't seem fair to a region with such a heterogeneous heritage. I definitely think that if we get Morocco it needs to reflect the Berber part of its history, probably by being led by a Berber like Yusuf ibn Tashfin. Otherwise I agree I would prefer something more Berber as well and Numidia seems the strongest option as a unified kingdom of sorts with an obvious female leader.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Couldn't the map just as easily be Africa or the Middle East though?

This is yet another thing that would feel incomplete to me if we only got the Americas or Africa. Seems like they could at least be keeping an Americas/Africa map in their pocket for future DLC.



I am too, but I am pointing out that SE Asia is really far behind in representation, and merely including a civ, or even a civ and a city-state, still leaves the area feeling underdeveloped compared to other regions of the world.



Ah yes you are correct I just looked. Would only five more city-states cover everything? I'm....not sure? Some subset of Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, Bangkok, Pagan/Hanoi, Mesa Verde, Haida Gwaii?



And yet I still think the game's aims would feel somewhat incomplete without something Italian, at the very least. I also think that Macedon is an awful representation of the Balkans and really is more of a second Persian leader geographically/culturally speaking. Bulgaria at its heights conveniently fills out nearly all of the Balkan and Ukrainian areas not covered by Hungary and Russia, we don't have a south slavic civ, and since Babylon seems unlikely Bulgaria seems the best option for a unique library replacement. Plus, the music would be epic. It has a lot of selling points: size, longevity, influence, distinctiveness...it's really the one new civ outside of Italy that I really think rises to the level of VI's other roster choices, and even higher than potential returning civs like Denmark and Austria.



Yes, for a time I was wondering if we might get a western Arabic caliph for Arabia, but it doesn't seem fair to a region with such a heterogeneous heritage. I definitely think that if we get Morocco it needs to reflect the Berber part of its history, probably by being led by a Berber like Yusuf ibn Tashfin. Otherwise I agree I would prefer something more Berber as well and Numidia seems the strongest option as a unified kingdom of sorts with an obvious female leader.

dihya seems like a good woman to lead the berbers as well

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Couldn't the map just as easily be Africa or the Middle East though?

This is yet another thing that would feel incomplete to me if we only got the Americas or Africa. Seems like they could at least be keeping an Americas/Africa map in their pocket for future DLC.

Well we are getting two new maps. I think the other one might be Middle East? If we were getting an African one I would assume it would come with Ethiopia as I think that might be it, at least for Sub-Sahara Africa.

I am too, but I am pointing out that SE Asia is really far behind in representation, and merely including a civ, or even a civ and a city-state, still leaves the area feeling underdeveloped compared to other regions of the world.

A new Civ is justifiable for me. It would at least be a step up from Civ 5, which they've already done with Africa and South America, in my opinion.

Ah yes you are correct I just looked. Would only five more city-states cover everything? I'm....not sure? Some subset of Copenhagen, Helsinki, Vienna, Bangkok, Pagan/Hanoi, Mesa Verde, Haida Gwaii?

It would be a set of 6 (Religious, Scientific, Cultural, Trade, Militaristic, Industrial) Some of those could be replacements as well. I'm assuming Lisbon will need a replacement at least and others if Byzantines and Babylon do make it in. In fact Copenhagen could make a decent Lisbon replacement with the suzerain ability and trade bonuses.

And yet I still think the game's aims would feel somewhat incomplete without something Italian, at the very least. I also think that Macedon is an awful representation of the Balkans and really is more of a second Persian leader geographically/culturally speaking. Bulgaria at its heights conveniently fills out nearly all of the Balkan and Ukrainian areas not covered by Hungary and Russia, we don't have a south slavic civ, and since Babylon seems unlikely Bulgaria seems the best option for a unique library replacement. Plus, the music would be epic. It has a lot of selling points: size, longevity, influence, distinctiveness...it's really the one new civ outside of Italy that I really think rises to the level of VI's other roster choices, and even higher than potential returning civs like Denmark and Austria.

I don't think Macedon was supposed to represent the Balkans at all or South Slavs. It just represents everything I would want in an Alexander the Great Civ though.
I agree that Austria and Denmark are out of the running thanks to Hungary and Norway.
Assyria could possibly still get a unique library like in Civ 5 though if Babylon is out. Bulgaria is interesting but I would save it for later as Europe is crowded and it's not like we don't have any Slavic civs. Though if we wanted a Civ to encompass the region Vlad Tepes for Romania would be my pick.

 

[ButSam]

I predict Babylon will get promoted to a full civ instead of a city state. They were highly influential in ancient times. They could be a science civ, or a civics civ--possibly with a Unique Ancient Government as a 4th option that only they could pick? Or a unique government district/building? Since civs in expansions have often shaken up the norm and Unique Governments do not currently exist, that would be a very cool option for Babylon...and quite historical for the Code of Laws civilization.

 

[Naktis]

I hope we get more content after NFP, there's still so many worthy civs I would love to see represented: Belgium, Berbers, Caribbean, Cherokee, Ireland, Malagasy, Navajo, Philippines... but I guess that's what mods are for.

I doubt we get anything after NFP, maybe some balance patches thats it. After NFP 2021 march game will be about 5 years old..so prob time for Civ 7 to think for 2022.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I predict Babylon will get promoted to a full civ instead of a city state. They were highly influential in ancient times. They could be a science civ, or a civics civ--possibly with a Unique Ancient Government as a 4th option that only they could pick? Or a unique government district/building? Since civs in expansions have often shaken up the norm and Unique Governments do not currently exist, that would be a very cool option for Babylon...and quite historical for the Code of Laws civilization.

These civs are going to be compatable with the vanilla version so they won't get a unique governor or anything to do with the government plaza either.
That being said a unique government choice sounds interesting but I don't know what that would entail.
The only thing I can think of is a Bureaucracy since it would work for a centralized Civ, however that government is not necessarily unique to Babylon, and would probably fit a Byzantine Civ better. But starting the game with Code of Laws would easily work.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Hammurabi with a culture focus and a new government sounds cool.

 

[Inawordyes]

These civs are going to be compatable with the vanilla version so they won't get a unique governor or anything to do with the government plaza either.
That being said a unique government choice sounds interesting but I don't know what that would entail.
The only thing I can think of is a Bureaucracy since it would work for a centralized Civ, however that government is not necessarily unique to Babylon, and would probably fit a Byzantine Civ better. But starting the game with Code of Laws would easily work.

The alt leader in this pass specifically requires Rise and Fall (making them likely an alt for one of the R&F civs), so whoever it is, whether Kublai Khan or otherwise, could theoretically make use of R&F mechanics such as the government plaza due to the fact that they’re already going to be dependency-tied to the expac anyways.

 

[TheBoulderite]

I know this has probably already been said, but I am willing to bet twenty dollars that one of these future civs is Portugal.

I'd also love to see Ancient Israel under King David or Solomon, and the Navajo would be really cool too. Romania would be a lot of fun as well.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I hope we get more content after NFP, there's still so many worthy civs I would love to see represented: Belgium, Berbers, Caribbean, Cherokee, Ireland, Malagasy, Navajo, Philippines... but I guess that's what mods are for.

Carribean Civ really is overdue! I wonder how many people would get ticked off if Toussaint Louverture made it into a Civ iteration? it'd be glorious

 

[Navelgazer]

I think Toussaint Louverture leading Haiti would be really well-received, actually, but would need to be carefully and thoughtfully designed.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The alt leader in this pass specifically requires Rise and Fall (making them likely an alt for one of the R&F civs), so whoever it is, whether Kublai Khan or otherwise, could theoretically make use of R&F mechanics such as the government plaza due to the fact that they’re already going to be dependency-tied to the expac anyways.

Yes the new leader does require an expansion so they could have something to do with loyalty or the Govt. Plaza, but not any of the new civs.

 

[Navelgazer]

Now I'm just trying to imagine how to design this without using the Loyalty mechanic or Governors or anything else not in Vanilla, since the historical flavor of Haiti/Louverture is the righteous, violent slave revolt into founding an independent nation of self-freed peoples. Vanilla mechanics don't lend themselves towards those concepts.

I think the design could possibly integrate the use of pillaging to conquer cities, as burning plantations was a major part of the revolution, and I could see Vodou Priests being a UU replacement for Missionaries who could be spent to give a combat bonus to adjacent units against districts (in reference to Vodou Priests signaling the start of the revolution.)

This is tough, though.

 

[The Mo]

Hi guys,

I am usually just a quit reader, but I think in todays civ game I found a hint to Babylon beeing added.

While playing the game showed a rumor of "...babylonian capital Bologna was captured...". Its obviously a bug, but maybe its a mistake by the devs who included some babylon lines already.

Below I added the picture of the game as evidence. Its in german....sorry

 

[Zaarin]

Hi guys,

I am usually just a quit reader, but I think in todays civ game I found a hint to Babylon beeing added.

While playing the game showed a rumor of "...babylonian capital Bologna was captured...". Its obviously a bug, but maybe its a mistake by the devs who included some babylon lines already.

Below I added the picture of the game as evidence. Its in german....sorry


View attachment 557454

Some people are going to be disappointed that a Bolognese city-state makes Italy unlikely, but for me I'll just be ecstatic to have Babylon. (Too bad it makes Assyria unlikely, but that was always a long shot.)

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Well we are getting two new maps. I think the other one might be Middle East? If we were getting an African one I would assume it would come with Ethiopia as I think that might be it, at least for Sub-Sahara Africa.

Okay I guess they could cover America and Middle East. Sucks for SS Africa but unless we got more than Kongo and the Zulu it's kinda barren.

A new Civ is justifiable for me. It would at least be a step up from Civ 5, which they've already done with Africa and South America, in my opinion.

But that's just it. Africa and South America are way ahead of SE Asia. SA has four civs and three city states. Africa has five civs and six city states. SE Asia has ONE mainland civ and NO city states. We need more than just a single civ for me to feel like that area is complete. If we can have the Nok, then we sure as hell had better get Burmese, Siamese, and Vietnamese representation in some form.

be a set of 6 (Religious, Scientific, Cultural, Trade, Militaristic, Industrial) Some of those could be replacements as well. I'm assuming Lisbon will need a replacement at least and others if Byzantines and Babylon do make it in. In fact Copenhagen could make a decent Lisbon replacement with the suzerain ability and trade bonuses.

Ah you're right forgot about replacements.

The alt leader in this pass specifically requires Rise and Fall (making them likely an alt for one of the R&F civs), so whoever it is, whether Kublai Khan or otherwise, could theoretically make use of R&F mechanics such as the government plaza due to the fact that they’re already going to be dependency-tied to the expac anyways.

Although it's possible the R&F refers expressly to mechanics, I don't think it's strictly tied to mechanics or else it would also work with GS. So also I was hopeful we might be surprised by a non-RF civ leader, all signs point toward it being an alt for one of those eight civs. Although that still leaves open the question of whether it's a dual leader....

 

[DWilson]

But that's just it. Africa and South America are way ahead of SE Asia. SA has four civs and three city states. Africa has five civs and six city states. SE Asia has ONE mainland civ and NO city states. We need more than just a single civ for me to feel like that area is complete. If we can have the Nok, then we sure as hell had better get Burmese, Siamese, and Vietnamese representation in some form.

I mean, looking at a map, SE Asia is much smaller than those two continents.

And Singapore ups the total mainland city states to one. Then Indonesia and Bandar Brunei double the representation.

Two civs & city states isn't as bad as you make it sound, even if I want there to be more.

 

[Abaxial]

Wallachia & Vlad Drakul?
Denmark & Christian IV?
Ireland & Brian Boru?

Part of the problem is the overlap between ancient and modern. I would like to see Mexico & Santa Anna, but it overlaps with Aztec, just as Italy & Garibaldi overlaps with Rome. It would be easier if it were policy to have either ALL ancient or ALL post-Renaissance.

I read somewhere that France was getting another leader, which means it would have THREE, which seems absurd.