Colonialist Legacies: Histories of the New World | Colonial + Pre-Colonial civs

[Homusubi]

'Kay. I'll have something done for both tomorrow. I have heard of this human practice called "having a life" and I've decided I want no truck with it. =]

Relationships are so much easier when the other party is a CiV mod.

 

[senshidenshi]

Relationships are so much easier when the other party is a CiV mod.

I beg to differ.

 

[Scapegrace]

May the blessings of Allah flow freely upon you, Mirwais Khan Hotaki, Prince of Kandahar and grandfather of Afghanistan. Your rule began in chaos, your people's lands fought over by bickering Turks and barbarous Mughals. The Pashtun cried out for a saviour and so you became one, after your pilgrimage to Mecca made it clear that bloody insurrection was the only option that could free your countrymen from the yoke of foreign oppression. Your forces routed the Persians time and again until at last Kandahar, and so Afghanistan, was a home for the Afghan people.

Oh great Khan, it is time to take up arms once more. The Pashtun tribes need someone to defend the homeland they fought so hard for. Will you strike down the interlopers and trample their bones into Afghan soil? Can you build a civilization that will stand the test of time?

Hopefully that's okay for Mirwais Khan Hotaki. =]

 

[Viregel]

The DoM looks great for Mirwais! I've had a few ideas for Afghanistan as well, though this does make them look slightly more warmongery:

UA: Graveyard of Empires (This is far too good as a UA title to throw away, in my opinion):
Culture in cities built next to mountains contributes towards Great People. 50% of a city's Defensive Strength is added to Culture. Great People may be expended to give units a Combat Bonus for 10 turns.
Reasoning: Basically, this all synergises to create mountain strongholds that can pump out Great People to expand Afghan culture, or to ward off enemies. It would just be Great Writers, but too many modded civs just focus on them - not that it's a bad thing, but diversity is always good. It does, in my opinion, live up to its name, while not being overly defensive. You can also use it to attack, which Afghanistan did a lot of.
UU: Qizilbash: Has one more movement point than the Rifleman it replaces. After killing another unit, all units in adjacent tiles have +10% Combat Strength the next turn.
Reasoning: These guys weren't strictly Afghan, but I thought they were pretty cool. I was going to stick the rather generic name "Durrani" on them, but I decided that as the Durrani used them, I could probably get away with it. The combat bonus is based on the fact that the Durranis managed to have success after success when fighting against the disintegrating powers against them, and the movement based on the fact that they occasionally used Cavalry, but I didn't really want two mounted units, as you'll see in a second.
UU: Ushtranaal: Unlike the Cavalry it replaces, the Ushtranaal functions as a Siege unit, and has a 200% Combat Bonus against cities. Whenever it attacks a city, the unit generated Great Writer points. Costs more to produce, and has significantly less combat strength. Can be both a Melee and Ranged unit, but cannot move after attacking.
Reasoning: Never really heard of these guys before, but basically they were cannons on the backs of camels, and unlike the unit TPangolin suggested I forget the name of, they were unique to Afghanistan. At least, I presume so, as they only show up in sources about Afghanistan. In the end, mounting a Gatling Gun on a camel? Pffft. Give me Cannons any day.

So, that is my general idea. Use/don't use what you want, but the likelihood is that I will make this anyway, at least as an alternative version. I'm up for coding Afghanistan as well - though I still disagree on the icon, as the symbol really doesn't symbolise Afghanistan much, and it actually looks more like typical Afghan architecture more than anything else. I'll give you it looks pretty sweet, though. Granted, the Hotakis didn't have much inspiration (their flag was just black, literally nothing else there), but I still think the general symbol that appears on most Afghan emblems is better. Not sure if the design overlaps with Vietnam (I think it might in some places), though mainly because I don't know what the current plan for Vietnam is.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I'd rename the Qizilbash as Jezail which is much more identifyiable with Afghanistan (Qizilbash is both Persian and Early modern, so more Musketeer era than Rifleman, also, I'm pretty sure they actually were characterized for their refusal to use modern weapons.)
I'd also have the Zamburak instead of the Ushtranaal, mostly because Zamburak is the truly widely use name for it.

 

[Viregel]

I'd rename the Qizilbash as Jezail which is much more identifyiable with Afghanistan (Qizilbash is both Persian and Early modern, so more Musketeer era than Rifleman, also, I'm pretty sure they actually were characterized for their refusal to use modern weapons.)
I'd also have the Zamburak instead of the Ushtranaal, mostly because Zamburak is the truly widely use name for it.

I'd say that the Jezail rename is fine - I'm not bothered by either, I just went with Qizilbash because that's what I got, and they seemed to fit in with Rifleman more than Muketman - just what I thought. As for the Zamburak rename, I'm slightly unsure as they seem to be identified as carrying guns as opposed to cannons - besides, I'm fairly sure that Ushtranaal is more unique to Afghanistan. Whatever is fine with my, as long as it makes sense. I'm just too lazy/tired to do any füther research now.

 

[Scapegrace]

I'd steer clear of that if I were you. The Qizilbashi were invented during and flourished under the rule of the Safavid Turks... who were the people Mirwais Khan Hotaki declared a fatwa on. Not only that, but Qizilbashi were twelvers, or Shi'a militia, and thus responsible for a lot of the Persian persecution inflicted upon the Pashtun in what we now call Afghanistan. Lastly, even if they do get in under the name Jezailchi (meaning a user of a jezail), they kinda have to be a Musketman replacement rather than a Rifleman one because, well, most of the time the things weren't bleedin' rifled; they were generally handmade, very simple weapons, and if someone had a rifled one it was because they'd carved the rifling themselves. Hell, half the time they were matchlock weapons, with the flintlocks often having the lock nicked off of any Brown Besses the British Army left behind. This is not to denigrate them; they worked really bloody well, outranging the shorter British smoothbores by quite a long way. Also, they shot nails. Jezails were hardcore. They were cheap and cheerful and pretty much indestructible.

Here's what I'd do with it:-
UU: Jezailchi (replaces Musketman)
Starts with Drill I and a unique promotion, Ten-Rupee Jezail. When a Jezailchi destroys an enemy unit, the enemy loses progress towards their next Great General by the number of points equal to the destroyed unit's Combat Strength. Costs 25% less than the Musketman it replaces.

Frankly, I've no idea how the hell you'd make that work in XML or LUA, but it's interesting, no? =]

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Sometimes I wonder how come you know so much about, well, anything. You barely ever miss any discussion, That's quite the ability you've got there.

Anyways, I said the Jezail(chi) should replace Rifleman instead of musketman mostly due to the timeframe they were used, which was more or less the time Rifles were the most prevalescent weapon, but I could see them replacing Muskets given their technology level (they seem to be classified as muskets apparently), what if they were an even more unorthodox unit, having range unlike the other gunpowder units? They were known for being used by snipers after all.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

The DoM looks great for Mirwais! I've had a few ideas for Afghanistan as well, though this does make them look slightly more warmongery:

UA: Graveyard of Empires (This is far too good as a UA title to throw away, in my opinion):
Culture in cities built next to mountains contributes towards Great People. 50% of a city's Defensive Strength is added to Culture. Great People may be expended to give units a Combat Bonus for 10 turns.
Reasoning: Basically, this all synergises to create mountain strongholds that can pump out Great People to expand Afghan culture, or to ward off enemies. It would just be Great Writers, but too many modded civs just focus on them - not that it's a bad thing, but diversity is always good. It does, in my opinion, live up to its name, while not being overly defensive. You can also use it to attack, which Afghanistan did a lot of.
UU: Qizilbash: Has one more movement point than the Rifleman it replaces. After killing another unit, all units in adjacent tiles have +10% Combat Strength the next turn.
Reasoning: These guys weren't strictly Afghan, but I thought they were pretty cool. I was going to stick the rather generic name "Durrani" on them, but I decided that as the Durrani used them, I could probably get away with it. The combat bonus is based on the fact that the Durranis managed to have success after success when fighting against the disintegrating powers against them, and the movement based on the fact that they occasionally used Cavalry, but I didn't really want two mounted units, as you'll see in a second.
UU: Ushtranaal: Unlike the Cavalry it replaces, the Ushtranaal functions as a Siege unit, and has a 200% Combat Bonus against cities. Whenever it attacks a city, the unit generated Great Writer points. Costs more to produce, and has significantly less combat strength. Can be both a Melee and Ranged unit, but cannot move after attacking.
Reasoning: Never really heard of these guys before, but basically they were cannons on the backs of camels, and unlike the unit TPangolin suggested I forget the name of, they were unique to Afghanistan. At least, I presume so, as they only show up in sources about Afghanistan. In the end, mounting a Gatling Gun on a camel? Pffft. Give me Cannons any day.

So, that is my general idea. Use/don't use what you want, but the likelihood is that I will make this anyway, at least as an alternative version. I'm up for coding Afghanistan as well - though I still disagree on the icon, as the symbol really doesn't symbolise Afghanistan much, and it actually looks more like typical Afghan architecture more than anything else. I'll give you it looks pretty sweet, though. Granted, the Hotakis didn't have much inspiration (their flag was just black, literally nothing else there), but I still think the general symbol that appears on most Afghan emblems is better. Not sure if the design overlaps with Vietnam (I think it might in some places), though mainly because I don't know what the current plan for Vietnam is.

I have to say I appreciate the original plan's uniqueness and focus on culture as well as trade. While I do want there to be some aspect of defense in the civ (the culture to city defense is originally what I had in mind), there's plenty of culture defense civs out there. A focus on trade and writing not only is unique, but it's different than what many would expect from Afghanistan.

 

[Scapegrace]

Sometimes I wonder how come you know so much about, well, anything. You barely ever miss any discussion, That's quite the ability you've got there.

Here's the thing; I generally don't know it at the start of any given discussion. I just have a lot of free time in which to research stuff - and since I'm interested in history, I'd probably end up doing it for pleasure anyway. This way, at least adding to my grab-bag of obscure bits of trivia is a bit more productive. =]

Anyways, I said the Jezail(chi) should replace Rifleman instead of musketman mostly due to the timeframe they were used, which was more or less the time Rifles were the most prevalescent weapon, but I could see them replacing Muskets given their technology level (they seem to be classified as muskets apparently)

Well, yeah, they are muskets. The word rifle didn't originally mean the gun, but the grooves cut into the barrel in order to make the bullet spin. That said, you're right on the time period; I got hung up on the wording of it. Mea culpa.

what if they were an even more unorthodox unit, having range unlike the other gunpowder units? They were known for being used by snipers after all.

This is mostly due to the jezail's construction; they were often, like, 25% heavier than the Brown Bess was because of the manufacturing process and the longer barrel, which meant that they didn't kick nearly as much when popping some nails or bits of gravel into some brick-thick English officer barely out of short trousers. When you add rifling, it becomes even more accurate. Perhaps a promotion that allows it to make a ranged attack with a range of 1 tile, but only if it's on a hill? I don't know. Something to consider, maybe.

 

[TPangolin]

I like your UA there Viregel, but unfortunately it might overlap a bit with Vietnam. We also have to consider the fact that Vietnam, Canada, Zapotecs have a Culture/Defensive, Diplo/Defensive and a Faith/Defensive focus.

I've intended Afghanistan to be more Silk Roady and focus on Culture/Trade (what with the Dida's).

Cannon Camels also do sound like fun, but graphics wise that'd be a pain (and there are never enough artists). I have found though Gunners on Camels though (hence my choice for camel gunners).

 

[regalman]

I hope you know about this, could be useful for Vietnam
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=22061

but It's also in another modded civ by Tomatekh

 

[Viregel]

I like your UA there Viregel, but unfortunately it might overlap a bit with Vietnam. We also have to consider the fact that Vietnam, Canada, Zapotecs have a Culture/Defensive, Diplo/Defensive and a Faith/Defensive focus.

I've intended Afghanistan to be more Silk Roady and focus on Culture/Trade (what with the Dida's).

Cannon Camels also do sound like fun, but graphics wise that'd be a pain (and there are never enough artists). I have found though Gunners on Camels though (hence my choice for camel gunners).

Afghanistan boils down to be Great People/Defensive. I'm normally against making civs full-out defensive, but it makes sense in the case of Afghanistan (and the others you had), and I firmly believe it works well. If you want, you could swap out Culture in the UA for something else; in fact, for futher Silk Road focus, it can easily be Gold.

As for the Cannon Gunners, I shall once more leap to their defense! Would you mind having a graphic with guns on them instead of cannons? At least, the name could be changed so it's more unique to Afghanistan.

And the other UU? I give in. Do whatever you want with the name.

Edit: Afganistan was called "the Soviet Union's Vietnam". No wonder there's overlap!

 

[TPangolin]

This is what they currently look like:



Granted I can get someone to convert them. Basically they are a Super 1 Range Camel Archer that can devastate your opponents. Considering giving them +4 Movement instead of 3.

Dida's will also look like:

 

[Viregel]

Nice! Has any code been done for Afghanistan as of yet? You guys could work on the Inuit or something, and I could assemble Afghanistan to get it done in double-quick time. I may have some difficulty with the Lua (and there's going to be a lot of it...) but aside from that, I could do the bulk of it. Just gimme a final plan, and I'll do what I can. Also, what do you think of changing the culture in my idea for the UA to gold? I honestly think it would work quite well, and besides, there would be a lot of synergy with the Dida.

 

[TPangolin]

The only thing we have for Afghanistan so far, is the DoM, all the pedia entries and also the Dida graphics (still need an icon, but I'll sort that out). I love the ideas of Mountain strongholds, but I want to create the feeling of high versatility for the Afghans (so if using your UA, the capital doesn't have a Mountain, that'd suck nuggets). I've included a mountain trait for the Dida's though!

So here's a bit of an update in terms of where we are at:

Cree - Needs music, Icon Art, Unit Models, Coding is in testing phase. Also Pedia entries are needed.
Vietnam - Everything is done except for the WPT Defensive trait. We have all of the individual elements - but we really just need someone to connect the dots and package it all up.
Anangu Aboriginals - Still waiting on Art Assets from Leugi, also need to convince LS to start working on it next after the Zapotecs. Also Pedia entries are needed.
Zapotecs - Needs music, Unit Models and some more coding - JFD will be packaging this but I'm not sure what's happening. Also Pedia entries are needed.
Blackfoot - Not much has been done at all.
Inuit - We just need the art assets from Leugi and we'll e good and raring to go. It's been in this state for a while now.
Anishinaabe - Pontiac needs a leaderscreen - over than that we are rocketing through the testing. Need music, unit art models and some icons. Also Pedia entries are needed.

 

[Scapegrace]

Speaking of DoM speeches...

The mountains themselves tremble beneath your gaze, Cosijoeza of the Zapotec, lord of Zaachila and master of your people's destinies! Truly you were a mighty king, and the Zapotec were in dire need of one; the Mixtec had stolen great Monte Alban, and the Aztec were out for blood. But Coquihani shone the path of wisdom for you, and your people kept to the beautiful cities in the clouds Cocijo protected and nurtured you with. However, between the brutality of the Aztec military machine and the depredations of greedy Spaniards, your empire dwindled and was lost, but do not be ashamed; you made peace with them, and they betrayed your trust.

O lord of lords, O last and greatest of the Be'ena Za'a kings, it is time to bring the victories that your old life denied you. Will you be as you once were, a patron of the arts and maker of peace to shame the meagre efforts of the Europeans? Will the Cloud People fall upon the world like lightning bolts and sunder all those who oppose them? Can you build a civilisation that will stand the test of time?

---

Much later edit: Decisions time!

Craft Jewels For The Tlatoanis
"Our neighbours are powerful, and we must recognise that and sate them. Perhaps a gift of worked stone and gold will keep them at bay..."
Cost: ???
Effect: Generate +6 Gold and +4 Culture in the Capital and +3 and +2 in all other Cities for each Major Civilization with whom you have a direct border.
Restrictions: ???

Carve The Dancer Stones
"The deeds of our people in the name of our gods are mighty indeed, and must be commemorated. Our masons shall make these stones rise like the Sun God himself and tell all of the splendour of the Be'ena'a!"
Cost: ???
Effect: +2 Culture and Science from Monuments. +1 Culture and Production from Engineer Specialists in the Capital. +1 Tourism from both after Archaeology is researched.
Restrictions: ???

---

No idea if these are even viable, but w/e. =]

 

[Viregel]

The only thing we have for Afghanistan so far, is the DoM, all the pedia entries and also the Dida graphics (still need an icon, but I'll sort that out). I love the ideas of Mountain strongholds, but I want to create the feeling of high versatility for the Afghans (so if using your UA, the capital doesn't have a Mountain, that'd suck nuggets). I've included a mountain trait for the Dida's though!

OK then, I bags code for Afghanistan. Hear me out, decide on final plan, then coding time begins.

I think that the UA does offer a large amount of versatility; you don't need to have the capital next to a mountain, it just encourages setting there (which, if I recall correctly, I've only seen one or two civs do). You don't even need to if you're doing well enough! Besides, I feel it represents Afghan history well. The ability isn't defensive either, it's just rewarding you for having well defended cities. The mountain stronghold idea is one I was going for, as it does represent Afghanistan well. Also, a couple of questions: 1) Where are the pedias at? 2) Why do you want high versatility for the Afghans? (In my opinion, it doesn't make that much sense - most of the country is effectively a dustbowl, which doesn't really imply flexibility for different terrain types. Besides, you're gaining a reputation for making civs suited for specific terrain types!)

So yeah. Lay down the plans, and I'll do what I can.

 

[Scapegrace]

Okay. You've latched onto the concept of Hill-focused defensive tall Civ when creating Afghanistan. That's fine, but we've already got those, both in the base game with the Inca and in CL with the plans for Zimbabwe. While you have a focus on Culture that the others don't (and even then there's quite a bit of overlap with Vietnam, as TP mentioned), you're ignoring a lot of Afghanistan's history as a trade hub in favour of a very military-dominated civ, and I'm not sure I agree with that approach.

I really like Afghanistan as is, my thoughts on the UA name notwithstanding. While your stuff is really interesting, I'm just not sold on it as an Afghan civ. Sorry.

Oh, and TP: I'd stick with the +3 Movement. Gatling Guns have 2 Movement anyway; +3 turns that into 5 (that's maths, that is), which is what unique cavalry units generally have - and what is the Zamburak if not a unique cavalry unit? Also, maybe the Dida could generate a flat amount of Gold or Great Writer points when it's pillaged, since you said you wanted it to people to have an incentive to invade Afghanistan.

 

[Viregel]

Okay. You've latched onto the concept of Hill-focused defensive tall Civ when creating Afghanistan. That's fine, but we've already got those, both in the base game with the Inca and in CL with the plans for Zimbabwe. While you have a focus on Culture that the others don't (and even then there's quite a bit of overlap with Vietnam, as TP mentioned), you're ignoring a lot of Afghanistan's history as a trade hub in favour of a very military-dominated civ, and I'm not sure I agree with that approach.

I'd suggested swaping out the Culture for Gold, what would you think of that? We're most likely going to use the UU and UI that TPangolin suggested anyway, so I'm not sure if that looks any better. On overlap with civs: my original proposal had less overlap with the Inca! I'd suggested having a bonus to mountains in the UA, while TPangolin wanted a bonus for the UI when next to mountains. (Not that it's bad or anything, just for the sake of argument.) As for Zimbabwe and Vietnam; I don't know the current plans, nor do I know where to find them (probably somewhere in this thread, though I cannot be bothered looking). If someone could please tell me what's in them, I could adapt accordingly!

I really like Afghanistan as is, my thoughts on the UA name notwithstanding. While your stuff is really interesting, I'm just not sold on it as an Afghan civ. Sorry.

Absolutely fine! I'd given mine thought to be slightly irregular (I wasn't fully convinced by TPangolin's idea, to be honest), though TPangolin's idea is probably a lot simpler to code. Not that I should really care about that if I do the bulk of it, though. I will attempt to sneak an idea or two somewhere else if I can. Not everyone's going to like every civ - I guess my style for these is a hell of a lot different to TPangolin's.

Oh, and TP: I'd stick with the +3 Movement. Gatling Guns have 2 Movement anyway; +3 turns that into 5 (that's maths, that is), which is what unique cavalry units generally have - and what is the Zamburak if not a unique cavalry unit? Also, maybe the Dida could generate a flat amount of Gold or Great Writer points when it's pillaged, since you said you wanted it to people to have an incentive to invade Afghanistan.

5 movement sounds best, yeah - and extra gold from the Dida when pillaged? Sounds like a good idea! Probably not why the USSR actually invaded Afghanistan, though.