@ Chrome, Ever thought about using percentages instead of set amounts for the monopoly buildings? Kinda like the monopolies do now but not global. Its done with AreaYieldModifier function I think. Rather than GlobalAreaModifier. Might be easier to manage monopolies OP'ness.
Community Call to Power Project
- Thread starter chrome-rome
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percentages in general can be dangerous. something that gives 5% may be only 3-4 production at one point, but later counts as 50. across all the eras if we had lots of things using percentages we get way too much stacking.
On the topic of eras, what if it was related to techs? Certain techs boost the small buildings by 1 FGP (e.g. fertiliser adds 1 food to all food resources in cities which have built a small XXX building), Globalisation adds 1 gold to all of the monopoly tree buildings, etc. this would mean that in the early era the small buildings are a small boost, in the medieval era the medium building is a small extra, the large is slow to build and costs resources but gives respectable boosts, by rennaisance there is a small increase to the small buildings, by industrial huge and monopoly are there for anyone who has got the numbers of resources available, and modern and digital eras increase the bonuses to still make resources worth hunting for, although the heavy boost comes from getting a monopoly and that often isnt likely without a war
Just a thought: have you considered making the monopoly not modify the tile benefits, but add a flat bonus to each of the lesser buildings? That way the biggest benefit can be skewed to having a couple of cities with huges rather than more with larges, but at the expense of not being able to spread the benefits out.
On the topic of eras, what if it was related to techs? Certain techs boost the small buildings by 1 FGP (e.g. fertiliser adds 1 food to all food resources in cities which have built a small XXX building), Globalisation adds 1 gold to all of the monopoly tree buildings, etc. this would mean that in the early era the small buildings are a small boost, in the medieval era the medium building is a small extra, the large is slow to build and costs resources but gives respectable boosts, by rennaisance there is a small increase to the small buildings, by industrial huge and monopoly are there for anyone who has got the numbers of resources available, and modern and digital eras increase the bonuses to still make resources worth hunting for, although the heavy boost comes from getting a monopoly and that often isnt likely without a war
Just a thought: have you considered making the monopoly not modify the tile benefits, but add a flat bonus to each of the lesser buildings? That way the biggest benefit can be skewed to having a couple of cities with huges rather than more with larges, but at the expense of not being able to spread the benefits out.
chrome-rome
King
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- Jan 7, 2009
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- 620
I'll be back to respond to your questions after class, but I wanted to let everyone know (if you don't know already) that an expansion has been announced for Civ5. This mod will still be worked on, but with the added features, it might become a little bit more difficult to "balance" things. Granted the dll should be out by then, so we would have better control over things, but some of my long-term plans have been tweaked in light of the news. For example, check the post about diplomacy in this linkhttp://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/. By having many Governments, Ideologies, and Systems, there will be less chance that you share a "common belief" with other civs. If we could restrict this to just the Governments this would be more manageable. Other things will have to be looked at as well.
But rest assured, an expansion is great news, and this mod will not be forgotten
But rest assured, an expansion is great news, and this mod will not be forgotten
FiresForever
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2010
- Messages
- 584
I'll be back to respond to your questions after class, but I wanted to let everyone know (if you don't know already) that an expansion has been announced for Civ5. This mod will still be worked on, but with the added features, it might become a little bit more difficult to "balance" things. Granted the dll should be out by then, so we would have better control over things, but some of my long-term plans have been tweaked in light of the news. For example, check the post about diplomacy in this linkhttp://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/. By having many Governments, Ideologies, and Systems, there will be less chance that you share a "common belief" with other civs. If we could restrict this to just the Governments this would be more manageable. Other things will have to be looked at as well.
But rest assured, an expansion is great news, and this mod will not be forgotten
Looks like it's going to be a great expansion pack
chrome-rome
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 620
Very true. I can't wait for it to come out!!!!
@Horem: I have tried to stay away from percentages for the sole reason that they mess with the governments. Way back when, Decimatus remarked that one of the best parts about the governments was that they gave the player exactly how much of x% yield that it said it would. The only way to ensure that it stays that way is if the governments get the only % modifiers (ironically Rome and Egypt mess with this with their UA, but I like Rome
). To be fair, using %s would make many things easier to balance, but that doesn't seem like the best way to go about this.
@Tritous: I dont know if what you are suggesting is possible through xml, but I'm sure it can be done through lua.
One of my main goals is to keep the building "ROI"s in a manageable range. For example, most buildings pay for themselves between 45-50 turns, with some exceptions (Wonders mostly). I want the monopoly buildings to have better ROIs, somewhere in the range of 32.5-37.5. To do this, the yields would have to be substantial, compared to the hammer cost. The initial buildings would have lower ROIs but they would increase as the requirements became more strict. If we were to go with the system of adding yields from techs (which I am inclined to do), I would have to seriously...wait, I literally just answered my own question right now.
Here's what I have:
Techs will give boost to one of X category (food, production, gold, f/p, f/g, p/g, f/s, p/s, g/s) monopoly trees, but only on one "building level" (small, med, large, huge). So one tech will improve the small wheat and small fish (because they are both in the food category), another would improve the medium, large, and huge, respectively. This will allow the economic tech tree to get more fleshed out. I'm thinking that tech improving them should appear in either the next era or the era after when the building actually comes available. Continuing the food example, the small fish and wheat are available in ancient. The improving tech will come either in classical or medieval. Still want to get these values worked on, but you have helped me solve the most pressing issue; not making the yields too strong too early.
@Nutron: Thank You!!! That's high praise indeed!!
@Horem: I have tried to stay away from percentages for the sole reason that they mess with the governments. Way back when, Decimatus remarked that one of the best parts about the governments was that they gave the player exactly how much of x% yield that it said it would. The only way to ensure that it stays that way is if the governments get the only % modifiers (ironically Rome and Egypt mess with this with their UA, but I like Rome
). To be fair, using %s would make many things easier to balance, but that doesn't seem like the best way to go about this.@Tritous: I dont know if what you are suggesting is possible through xml, but I'm sure it can be done through lua.
One of my main goals is to keep the building "ROI"s in a manageable range. For example, most buildings pay for themselves between 45-50 turns, with some exceptions (Wonders mostly). I want the monopoly buildings to have better ROIs, somewhere in the range of 32.5-37.5. To do this, the yields would have to be substantial, compared to the hammer cost. The initial buildings would have lower ROIs but they would increase as the requirements became more strict. If we were to go with the system of adding yields from techs (which I am inclined to do), I would have to seriously...wait, I literally just answered my own question right now.
Here's what I have:Techs will give boost to one of X category (food, production, gold, f/p, f/g, p/g, f/s, p/s, g/s) monopoly trees, but only on one "building level" (small, med, large, huge). So one tech will improve the small wheat and small fish (because they are both in the food category), another would improve the medium, large, and huge, respectively. This will allow the economic tech tree to get more fleshed out. I'm thinking that tech improving them should appear in either the next era or the era after when the building actually comes available. Continuing the food example, the small fish and wheat are available in ancient. The improving tech will come either in classical or medieval. Still want to get these values worked on, but you have helped me solve the most pressing issue; not making the yields too strong too early.
@Nutron: Thank You!!!
That's high praise indeed!!
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
Great news, indeed. I really hope the dll will also be released this yeah.
It would be great if can use "probeteams"
It would be great if can use "probeteams"
chrome-rome
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
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- 620
Sorry for the double post; I just like seeing CCtP on the top of the Modpacks section... No but actually, now that the expansion has been announced I have a general planning question: What do you all think will be more efficient, working out the processes and concepts as I have them written down, or adjusting them to incorporate the new features. For example, many of the Social Tree wonders are kinda meh. Do you think it best to bring them up to par, or plan effects for them that require the expansion, ie Faith yields. Let me know. Also, if it wasn't clear, CCtP will be moving on to be a mod for the expansion. For those who don't want to purchase Gods & Kings, we will leave it in a playable state, but all future updates will be based on the expansion
No but actually, now that the expansion has been announced I have a general planning question: What do you all think will be more efficient, working out the processes and concepts as I have them written down, or adjusting them to incorporate the new features. For example, many of the Social Tree wonders are kinda meh. Do you think it best to bring them up to par, or plan effects for them that require the expansion, ie Faith yields. Let me know. Also, if it wasn't clear, CCtP will be moving on to be a mod for the expansion. For those who don't want to purchase Gods & Kings, we will leave it in a playable state, but all future updates will be based on the expansion glad I could help. It would be nice to get economic techs that are not just about gold buildings, gold buildings and....gold. an economy is a more subtle thing too, and many farming and production items are economic in reality. having the economic tree gently ramp up resources woudl be good, as long as it isn't as artifical as the early parts: there is no reason to make resources completely parallel. Maybe one category (e.g. production) can have no medevil tech for smalls, but have a later tech that boosts smalls and mediums...earlier than most other mediums. Balance doesn't have to be 100% perfect; sometimes a little biasing adds more immersion.
In a similar way there is a possiblity to use the social tree more too. You have categories, but why not branch them or cross them over a little? e.g. alligator: a little later it becomes as much a culture thing as a profitable thing. why not have a couple of resource later on give 1 luxury instead of FPG, or have something that gives production give gold later (as a resource become outdated by technology but now becomes a recreational resource). In reality these things in various eras shift between being cultural, recreational, and being profitable. It makes it a lot more interesting too when a city that has lots of copper isn't doomed for all time to be a production city, but can start cashing in later when it becomes more of a decorative material. Gold could even contribute to science when we hit the computer age, and so the cities we once considered our population cities start to become more trade cities and we have to adapt our view as times change.
My recommendation would be to "complete" the mod without the expansion first. when the expansion comes a lot will have to be remade, and I don't think we'll be able to help you in the balancing until we've had a fair while to get the feel of the expansion too. Rather than call it moving on, consider it a separate project but as a higher priority than the basic mod. besides, it will probably be a big task getting the nuances of the new engine features.
In a similar way there is a possiblity to use the social tree more too. You have categories, but why not branch them or cross them over a little? e.g. alligator: a little later it becomes as much a culture thing as a profitable thing. why not have a couple of resource later on give 1 luxury instead of FPG, or have something that gives production give gold later (as a resource become outdated by technology but now becomes a recreational resource). In reality these things in various eras shift between being cultural, recreational, and being profitable. It makes it a lot more interesting too when a city that has lots of copper isn't doomed for all time to be a production city, but can start cashing in later when it becomes more of a decorative material. Gold could even contribute to science when we hit the computer age, and so the cities we once considered our population cities start to become more trade cities and we have to adapt our view as times change.
My recommendation would be to "complete" the mod without the expansion first. when the expansion comes a lot will have to be remade, and I don't think we'll be able to help you in the balancing until we've had a fair while to get the feel of the expansion too. Rather than call it moving on, consider it a separate project but as a higher priority than the basic mod. besides, it will probably be a big task getting the nuances of the new engine features.
Just got this mod today and i must say its looking really good so long, but there is a few things i dont get.
What i havent figured out is how to build the buildings like small fish market, small wheat mill etc. after researching these techs. Also anywhere you can see the amound of wheat/fish/crab etc thats needed to build those wonders?
Also its hard getting used to having to go back and forth between the tech trees, would prefer it to be on one page but u could scroll down, but i guess thats personal preference and just have to get used to it
What i havent figured out is how to build the buildings like small fish market, small wheat mill etc. after researching these techs. Also anywhere you can see the amound of wheat/fish/crab etc thats needed to build those wonders?
Also its hard getting used to having to go back and forth between the tech trees, would prefer it to be on one page but u could scroll down, but i guess thats personal preference and just have to get used to it
Just got this mod today and i must say its looking really good so long, but there is a few things i dont get.
What i havent figured out is how to build the buildings like small fish market, small wheat mill etc. after researching these techs. Also anywhere you can see the amound of wheat/fish/crab etc thats needed to build those wonders?
Also its hard getting used to having to go back and forth between the tech trees, would prefer it to be on one page but u could scroll down, but i guess thats personal preference and just have to get used to it
As of curent version, the smaller version buildings are disabled, but I believe they are working on reintroducing them in a more balanced and hopefuly fun manner (before it just seemed like grinding out a ton of small successive buildings up to monopoly and made most cities vastly overpowered).
I sorta agree with the tech tree..especialy when trees have prerequisites in the other trees, makes it hard to gauge the actual path it'll take to research the tech you're targeting. It's a small issue for me tho, the other great stuff in this mod more than makes up for it
AlextheGr8
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2012
- Messages
- 180
What files do I need for this mod? I have the latest civ5 patch and all the dlc. Just download the link on the first page, that's it? In the original thread there's a fix for dlc, do I need to download that file too? Interested in trying out this mod, thanks!
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
All you need is to download the stable version, or the new version.
I have also all dlc`s and can play CCTP but my version(heavy modded) is none of them above.
But i think you can play both.
But your question is a good one, maybe someone can help on this.
For the techtree, it was a great step to create this, and i a love it.
But i agree if you are new to this mod its a little bit confusion.
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
Another point. When i was looking and working with the xml files i build an SDI project (nukeinterception)
On fanatics i saw that Spatzimaus created a full workin SDI project with lua.
It would be great if this could be included, since my lua knowlege is so
On fanatics i saw that Spatzimaus created a full workin SDI project with lua.
It would be great if this could be included, since my lua knowlege is so
HardRocker
Student.
Do you need all he DLC to play this mod? Because I have none
on the right bar (where normaly you would have your current research showing) you can click to get a several differnt options. one is to show all your resources available.
As for the tech tree. I get the impressed that it has engine limitations. there were so many techs supposedly required for markets, yet it woudl be unlocked as soon as 5/9 of them are completed. They were crammed in but the view couldn't show it.
On one hand it's nice to have this separation of techs. I can often focus on one area more than others depending on what my current long term plans are. The down side is it's hard to see the cross tree links
As for the tech tree. I get the impressed that it has engine limitations. there were so many techs supposedly required for markets, yet it woudl be unlocked as soon as 5/9 of them are completed. They were crammed in but the view couldn't show it.
On one hand it's nice to have this separation of techs. I can often focus on one area more than others depending on what my current long term plans are. The down side is it's hard to see the cross tree links
darkedone02
The Suggestor
Sometimes I wondered if I should reinstall Civilization 5 and install this mod and the ingame editor to see how far this mod has gone since my absence of the game.
Gilgamesch
Ancient Alien
Do you need all he DLC to play this mod? Because I have none
No, you can play this mod without any dlc.
chrome-rome
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 620
Hey guys sorry for the absence: midterms are a-coming :/ Thanks for those who have answered questions and kept things moving along. Haven't had much time to think more about monopolies quite yet, but there are a few other (admittedly low priority) things that I'm trying to put together. Hopefully my busy spell will pass by the end of the month so I can get back to heavy duty CCtP
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