Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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Lol, I'm still looking forward to the changes to Babylon's UP.

I was thinking, Leoreth, that there should be some sort of "minor" corporations (trading companies or something) that don't add as much of a benefit (except maybe financially) based on the types of resources you have access too? Like spices, dyes, fur and whatnot?

Also, to Jammerculture, if Rome is alive, Italy won't respawn and every once in awhilerome won't collapse. Its very rare, though. Especially since Leoreth made it more likely for some civs to collapse after times when their civ collapsed (AI only).
 
would it be possible to add new wonders that have the same tech prerequisite as existing wonders, but different religious prereqs. That way you could add christian wonders to mirror the islamic ones and vice versa. This is one way to introduce more renaissance/medeival wonders. As well, why do wonders always have to be buildings? Great works of art such as Dante's Inferno or The Mona Lisa are wonders as well.
What kairob said, mostly, and the fact that they're built with production, which is at least believable for an architectural wonder, but for literature and paintings?

I already thought about having double effects for Islamic/Christian wonders, but feared it would take some of the wonders' uniqueness.

i tried a 3000 bc start to play Italy, started as Inca waited three turns and nothing happened. Can you only play Italy on 600ad?
Did you make sure Rome is dead? If they manage to survive until 1167, there will be no Italy.

Also, i understand that the great works are represented in game, however, if you wanted to create more renaissance wonders, this would be the way to do it. It wouldn't be without president in the game either i.e. the heroic epic and national epic.

On that thought, would it be possible to dynamically name those two wonders to represent actual heroic or national epics i.e. Beowulf for the English or the Illiad for the Greeks
Yeah, I already had that idea as well, but it's rather tedious to implement (only idea is to go via UBs for each of them).

Also, i just thought of an addendum to my earlier idea. If you could make these great works be like relics from SoI. Then we could represent a common event in history, in which conquerors take pieces of their conquests culture as a trophy, and gain the benefits of their conquests knowledge. This could help civs like the mongols, who are conquerors, not fall behind their advanced neighbours.
Tech stealing was into consideration when I changed the Mongol UP. I was of the opinion that they needed the military boost more, however (which might not be true anymore as they now seem to be potent enough to crush China at least).

I think for America and England, both civs existed as distinctively separate nations for over 200 hundred years and throughout multiple important conflicts throughout history (Revolutionary War, WWI, WWII, and the Cold War most notably).

The Western Roman Empire (if you minus the years under the tetrarchy) on the other hand barely coexisted with the Eastern Roman Empire for over 100 years before it collapsed.
Yeah, but that doesn't interfere with the statement that there no conditional spawns in RFC.

What about a combination of
-Making Romans get an even slightly higher production boost and/or decreasing cost of legions
-Including an easier-to-achieve "complete Roman Empire" UHV, for instance, only needing to control at least 1 city in France, 1 city in Spain, 1 city in Great Britain, 2 cities in Northern Africa, 2 cities in Asia, 2 cities in Balkans/Eastern Europe (Constantinople would count both as city in Asia and city in Balkans/Eastern Europe).
-Help out AI to emulate Roman Empire by having "total war"on Greece and Carthage, spawn some units in Levant, spawn a settler+defender in London and give an x% chance to flip cities around Mediterranean to Rome (if not human player controlled).
Exchanging some Western cities for Eastern cities is exactly what I meant when I said I'll change the UHV to a more Eastern orientation. Making legions cheaper is great idea if properly balanced.

I won't give the AI too much artificial help though. London is not that important to the shape of the empire, and random city flips go too far in my eyes. A total war feature might help, though, but I think the problem with Carthage is rather that Rome can't mount a proper naval invasion.

Is there also a way to make Spain, France, Balkans, Turkey, the Levant, Egypt, and North Africa all be considered part of one continent (for combat purposes) from 500BC to 200AD?
There is. Maybe it'd be wise to include a proper algorithm for these things into the code (to make the continent boundaries change depending on how they were perceived at the time), rather than making hardcoded changes on a whim as it is currently.

BTW, when are you planning to work on your combat update? This mod's looking amazing already, but I'm still really looking forward to revamping the combat system.
I'm afraid this has medium priority at most at the moment. It's better too have implemented as much as possible before such an extensive feature. Otherwise it's difficult to distinguish which change has which repercussion.

Lol, I'm still looking forward to the changes to Babylon's UP.

I was thinking, Leoreth, that there should be some sort of "minor" corporations (trading companies or something) that don't add as much of a benefit (except maybe financially) based on the types of resources you have access too? Like spices, dyes, fur and whatnot?
Babylon is definitely due this week ;)

Maybe I will move to a SVN repository like embryodead did, so that you can download (unstable) preview versions before I release the next proper version.

I'm still considering whether medieval/renaissance/colonial companies would work for the game.
 
Thanks. Currently only the building expires, but its hardcoded effect does not. :D
 
Also, i just thought of an addendum to my earlier idea. If you could make these great works be like relics from SoI. Then we could represent a common event in history, in which conquerors take pieces of their conquests culture as a trophy, and gain the benefits of their conquests knowledge. This could help civs like the Mongols, who are conquerors, not fall behind their advanced neighbors.

Rise of Mankind had an interesting view on this : whenever you conquer a city, you get a little bit of the knowledge of the civ in one of the techs they have and you don't. You're basically learning some of the techs by warring which I found quite logical since if you conquer a city where the Eiffel tower is built, you're bound to find out that it's made in a strong new metal that could be used very simply by your civ.
 
You can now always view the current state of the modmod at my SVN repository HERE.

You can even download the files and try to play it. However, I don't guarantee it to be stable, so please don't report any errors you find while playing these versions.
 
I think Italy is bugged. I have played many games with them now and in all of them their seems to be far too many announcements of GP births. It almost seems like every one is getting Italy's UP. Has anyone else noticed this?

I have attached a save of my latest game. In the turns after this save I was getting 4-6 GP births every other turn! I think it is a side effect of this but I have also been seeing alot more letter or gibberish named GP. Check it out.
 

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You can now always view the current state of the modmod at my SVN repository HERE.

You can even download the files and try to play it. However, I don't guarantee it to be stable, so please don't report any errors you find while playing these versions.

LOL! I love how all the big game developers are starting "SVN repositories" ;)
But goodwork! Will you still be posting them up as files as well though?
Thanks!
 
I think Italy is bugged. I have played many games with them now and in all of them their seems to be far too many announcements of GP births. It almost seems like every one is getting Italy's UP. Has anyone else noticed this?

I have attached a save of my latest game. In the turns after this save I was getting 4-6 GP births every other turn! I think it is a side effect of this but I have also been seeing alot more letter or gibberish named GP. Check it out.
Are sure this isn't simply caused by the fact that when Italy is around, we likely have a dozen active civs that in general run more specialists than in BtS, and this is only a side effect (the GP threshold has also been lowered for many civs)?

I checked the code again and it definitely checks for Italy. Tested the game as well, other civs don't seem to get the Italian UP (see attachment).

You're right about the wrong GP names though, they appear when one civ runs out of names for this category. Since Great Spies, Independents, Natives and some other civs (Khmer, Ethiopia and Maya, iirc) lack dynamic names completely, you see a lot of them appear. It's among my aims for the next version to move the complete dynamic GP code to the DLL which should solve the problem (and be faster); I just have problems with the necessary C++ container classes at the moment.

LOL! I love how all the big game developers are starting "SVN repositories" ;)
But goodwork! Will you still be posting them up as files as well though?
Thanks!
I don't think I'm a "big" game developer. ;)

But you're right, embryodead gave me the idea to reveal my current progress to you. SVN has also some other advantages for me; it provides an easy method to undo changes and allows me to work from different PCs, which happens quite often at the moment. So it wasn't entirely altruistic :D

I will of course continue to release proper versions here on civfanatics.

How can you do it?
You have two options:

1) Copy all of the files shown on the linked site into your RFC Dawn of Civilization folder (right click -> save as ...).

This has the disadvantage that you have to redownload everything to update for every minor change I've made, and it's quite tedious to download all those files manually. Therefore I recommend ...

2) Download Tortoise SVN. This is a program that allows you to access SVN repositories easily with your explorer. After you installed it, all you have to is click on your already existing "RFC Dawn of Civilization" folder and select the new option "SVN checkout". The following window asks you for the URL of the repository, where you enter the SVN URL displayed at the link (i.e. "https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/Dawn_of_Civilization/").

The program will then check if there is any difference to the files you currently have and only download and overwrite those that differ (which are only a few usually). So once you have installed Tortoise, it's much easier to update yourself.

But I will add a short guide on this on the first post soon, as well.
 
I don't think I'm a "big" game developer. ;)

lol, well in my eyes you are! ;)
You, Edead, Zappara, Baldyr and of course Rhye are the people, whose mods I play all the time; so yes, you are a "big" game developer. :goodjob:
 
Ok, I know that corporations have no effect on UHVs and not much effect on the game at all. But this is ridiculous, I founded Oil Industries with Arabia, and this seems to be a bit messed up: It gives me a total of 64 Oil resources in a city with the corporation, resulting in +160gold - per city! I dont know if this is intended or not... but it seems to be like a "self-inducing" effect (if u know what I mean...), so having more Oil gives me even more Oil which gives me a whole lot of money :king:
 
Yeah, it wasn't intended for Oil Industry to produce oil at all (oversight on my part). It's already been fixed, and if you want to apply the fix immediately, it's the perfect situation to use my SVN ;)
It's sufficient to download Assets\XML\GameInfo\Civ4CorporationInfos.xml.
 
I'll take your word for it that all these GP's are normal but I have definitely seen WAY more GP births in the games I have played as Italy then say, Germany.

A couple of other things I have seen that are not necessarily bugs but definitely not cool. One is that after researching rifling, but before chemistry, it is possible to build longswordsman or pikemen, promote them to CR 1 or 2 and then upgrade them to riflemen or, hold them till after chemistry and make CR2 grenadiers. Severely OP!

Also, the triumphal arch is considered a national wonder, which means it takes up one of your national wonder slots. I was two turns away from building wall street when I accomplished my second UHV condition and lost the ability to continue building Wall Street.

In general, I have found Italy to be a little bit OP in the mid to late game. Part of this could be because their game plays to my strengths but in my latest game I got to radio in 1850!!! i am currently deciding whether or not to incite a world war now to dominate with my infantry or wait five more turns for my artillery. I am bringing in close to 600 research per turn and 75-100 gold per turn at 70%!
 
Where did you get your strong military from? Maybe I'm not good at low-production civs, but I often lived in fear of France or Germany crushing me ...

But what would you nerf to rebalance Italy? Slower unit-building? Slower research? More upkeep? Everything?

And I'll check the great persons again.

The CR-Riflemen and NW Triumphal Arc are minor things, but I'll note them :)
 
Just played the Italian UHVs, but the last one was not checked in 1930, it says not yet in 1932. Save is attached.

If things don't go too bad, Italy is very strong. There are settled super specialists in Rome, plus the free ones lets you research at 100% with a lot of gold overflow. With all those GPs I got the tech lead very soon, however, building units really took a long time and in the end I nearly messed it up because i badly underestimated the Ottomans and there were no reinforcements. So, I would suggest slightly lowering tech rate/increase upkeep, but the unit costs seem ok.
 
I think I found the problem, but now it says NO for your game in that situation, which also isn't right. Will check it again when I have more time later.

A few general observations, did you conquer Germany or did it collapse before your eyes? It's also interesting that you built Napoli and no Durazzo (which was always crucial in my games).

But your game definitely shows that Italy's tech rate is too high; by 1800, the other civs should at least have caught up even with a human controlled Italy.

Also what troubles me is that your expansion stability isn't nearly as bad as I would like it to be with all those cities in Germany, France and Egypt.
 
So, I would suggest slightly lowering tech rate/increase upkeep, but the unit costs seem ok.

I agree with this. In my Italy games it has been easy to have infantry way before anybody else. However, don't nerf them too much, since that's also doable with any other European civ.

The expansion stability isn't the problem IMO, but rather that civs don't tend to collapse easily. For example, I have seen the Dutch living on and being stable after losing Amsterdam and India (2 cities), they only had 2 cities left in Africa. Arabia doesn't collapse after losing Egypt and Middle East excluding the Arabian Peninsula.
 
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