Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[Enyavar]

I am not sure, but maybe additional 43 camel archers which moors got after I didn't let them go is a little too much?

Newly spawned Civs need their due birth protection, and the protection scales according to the strength of the "attacker".
Playing a super power France, Prussia gained 100 Musketiers I think? And half as many Bombards when I attacked them in the first round after the birth protection ended.

Just wait one more round (10 of enforced protection, +1 after that) and there is no additional protection at all.

Oooor, if you're a bit sneakier, you can screw over the Spanish with this spawn situation: The Moors only get reinforcements in Iberia. Don't let the Moors go, but only re-conquer Carthage in the first round where they don't get reinforcements and also won't attempt to regain the city later. Ignore the Moors in Iberia until they inevitably DoW and wipe out Spain; and then conquer 'em both.

 

[Cypriot]

Oooor, if you're a bit sneakier, you can screw over the Spanish with this spawn situation: The Moors only get reinforcements in Iberia. Don't let the Moors go, but only re-conquer Carthage in the first round where they don't get reinforcements and also won't attempt to regain the city later. Ignore the Moors in Iberia until they inevitably DoW and wipe out Spain; and then conquer 'em both.

That exactly what happened! Poor Spain, they have no chance in the first place. But, what I mean, that's kinda ridiculous, those newborn countries get armies strong enough to conquer half of the world out of the thin air. I understand, that it's the simplest way to not make new civs to die to human player immediately, but still. And it is not even that effective, because, as you noticed, you just can wait eleven turns and then crush them anyway.

 

[Dracosolon]

I wonder where else you could use this trick, to sabotage a nearer civ. Maybe refusing a flip to Canada, if America is your tech rival?

 

[Cypriot]

Canada and USA doesn't have mutual contested areas, so they shouldn't declare war on each other? So you need use militaristic civ. Maybe Prussia? But they surprisingly doesn't have that much of claims on others. Or they get them over time? Still, super Germany risks to end up much bigger problem than anything you wanted sabotage with it.

 

[Cypriot]

I wonder where else you could use this trick, to sabotage a nearer civ. Maybe refusing a flip to Canada, if America is your tech rival?

Well, here some thoughts:
Greece to sabotage Middle East. Pointless. Firstly, it will be extremely costly to spawn someone that early. Secondly, to make it possible you yourself should be in Middle East. And thirdly, they perform well enough without additional help.
Persia to Middle East. Ditto.
Rome to Mediterranean. Ditto.
Byzantium. Actually, seems legit, cause Persia exists and usually performs well, so it could be a possibility to eliminate really strong Persia.
Arabia. Pointless, cause they have enough additional units without someone's help and their potential victims, Persia and Byzantium, tends to just die themself anyway.
Turks. Ditto.
Mongolia. This monster conquer entirety of Asia without any problems, if you try to provoke it, you risk to make them conquer you as well.
Ottomans. Can be used to eliminate someone in the Middle East. The problem is, there is nobody there when Ottomans spawns.
Prussia to kill strong Holy Rome or France.
Overall, I don't see much use for this trick. Moors works because there are too civilization which spawns almost simultaneously and roughly in the same area, so you can make them fight each other. Most of AI civilization tends to die themself after some date, so pull of victims to eliminate also kinda small. If only DoC have multiplayer mode... Oh boy, you could have abuse this trick so hard there.

 

[Wessel V1]

The massive maintenance costs of the army should pretty much ruin the civ's research, so it may not be a bad idea to cripple the civ you wish to contain directly by letting them have a huge army.

 

[Dracosolon]

What causes the path through Greenland to be opened for the Vikings? I've done the UHV before but looking at the map editor the ice blocks the ships beyond what an Icelandic city can reach. Is this triggered somewhere?

 

[Osborneman]

What causes the path through Greenland to be opened for the Vikings? I've done the UHV before but looking at the map editor the ice blocks the ships beyond what an Icelandic city can reach. Is this triggered somewhere?

That ice tile doesn't exist if the player is the Vikings.

 

[Dracosolon]

Thanks. I guess this means that the future Celtic civ could potentially settle Iceland without opening up the path to America, which is desirable.

 

[Cypriot]

Is Rome hardcoded to collapse after Byzantium spawns? Every single game I recently played they didn't live longer, but yesterday I had the most blatant case. I have played as Rome to prepare for ideal Byzantium run. I didn't conquer anything besides Greece. When I switched to Byzantium Rome was completely stable and has none non-core cities, and nevertheless they just died a few turns after without any rational reason for it. Aren't they suppose to live at least for 476 AD?

 

[Maggy_domain]

Is it possible to go for a science victory playing the historical way aka tall ? I tried many runs with the US, regent, epic and always felt short of ~20-30 turns every time. The same when I tried with China, Babylonia and England. It seems my research inevitably plateaus once reaching global era if I restrain myself from occupying the whole continent. Any possible way ? Or is science really a domination victory in disguise ?

 

[banzay13]

Is it possible to go for a science victory playing the historical way aka tall ? I tried many runs with the US, regent, epic and always felt short of ~20-30 turns every time. The same when I tried with China, Babylonia and England. It seems my research inevitably plateaus once reaching global era if I restrain myself from occupying the whole continent. Any possible way ? Or is science really a domination victory in disguise ?

Yes, it's possible. But not in every game. Save some checkpoints, and reload if needed. And you need use espionage especially with classic civs

 

[Lzz]

Is it possible to go for a science victory playing the historical way aka tall ? I tried many runs with the US, regent, epic and always felt short of ~20-30 turns every time. The same when I tried with China, Babylonia and England. It seems my research inevitably plateaus once reaching global era if I restrain myself from occupying the whole continent. Any possible way ? Or is science really a domination victory in disguise ?

I can see this not working with Babylon and China, but I did it easily with USA controlling historical territory only and England would likely be even easier since it has so much historical territory and its unique power is insanely powerful. I recall almost doing it once with England without expanding beyond the British Isles at all.

 

[Maggy_domain]

I can see this not working with Babylon and China, but I did it easily with USA controlling historical territory only and England would likely be even easier since it has so much historical territory and its unique power is insanely powerful. I recall almost doing it once with England without expanding beyond the British Isles at all.

The problem I face with US is the late spawn, where even accounting to tech trades and espionage I end up reaching satellites mid 70s. I once overdid research boosting and ended the game with 12k points tech/turn. However I inevitably fall short due to the first satellite/man in space/moon landing/mars bottleneck. Even with a god tier Chicago production.

 

[Efim]

earlier in the editor there was an opportunity to influence stability and so on. How to return?

 

[Lzz]

The problem I face with US is the late spawn, where even accounting to tech trades and espionage I end up reaching satellites mid 70s. I once overdid research boosting and ended the game with 12k points tech/turn. However I inevitably fall short due to the first satellite/man in space/moon landing/mars bottleneck. Even with a god tier Chicago production.

12000 research per turn is great. When I played USA last with that much research at the end of the game I recall researching Transhumanism 14 in 2020. The key early is to have an efficient research path, getting a bunch of scientists for Academies and just building infrastructure everywhere instead of military. The Dutch can be friendly quite early with Individualism being their favourite civic so they are a great tech trading partner. As for the end game production - Denver, Chicago and New Orleans all have incredible production capacity and a well built Washington, New York, Grand Forks and Seattle are not far behind either so I don't know how you are lacking for production

 

[Cypriot]

Maybe it is a good idea to add some mechanic which will force AI to create historical alliances for World Wars I & II (And maybe also Napoleonic wars)? Cause overall DoC simulates global history quite well, but when game comes to exactly this aspect, it absolutely fails to recreate anything close to historical outcome.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Maybe it is a good idea to add some mechanic which will force AI to create historical alliances for World Wars I & II (And maybe also Napoleonic wars)? Cause overall DoC simulates global history quite well, but when game comes to exactly this aspect, it absolutely fails to recreate anything close to historical outcome.

I kinda agree, but while Napoleonic Wars can last up to 30 - 40 years (Supposing we start around 1780's and end 1815 or 1820-ish) meaning around 10 - 20 turns in normal speed, it would mean around 5 turns per World War, and that's too short to be a normal war in this game.

To represent such events we would have to introduce very complex mechanics and destroy Paris and/or Berlin twice in an unreasonably short amount of time.

 

[Dracosolon]

Aren't Defensive Pacts shenanigans supposed to represent this kind of things?

 

[Cypriot]

I kinda agree, but while Napoleonic Wars can last up to 30 - 40 years (Supposing we start around 1780's and end 1815 or 1820-ish) meaning around 10 - 20 turns in normal speed, it would mean around 5 turns per World War, and that's too short to be a normal war in this game.

To represent such events we would have to introduce very complex mechanics and destroy Paris and/or Berlin twice in an unreasonably short amount of time.

Yeah, that's problematic. Additional turns could have partially solve this problem. Or just make more turns in World Wars period in cost of less turns in modern era.

Aren't Defensive Pacts shenanigans supposed to represent this kind of things?

They are supposed. But the result is just completely ahistorical. We get too randomise alliances and too many wars. And if some country is allied with two others, and those two declare war upon each other, this country end up in war against "agressor", even if it would benefit to join another side or declare neutrality. And we don't have proper peace conferences between coalitions. And so on. Alas, Civilization just too simplifies real diplomacy.