Demon capturing

[CareFactor0]

Just an idea - maybe for archmages or civ specific, but the ability to capture demons (similar to the command promotions, but demons only). Maybe also give them a % chance each turn to escape their bonds.

 

[xienwolf]

Hrm... Bind Demon promotion, available with Combat 5 + Channeling 2. And any captured Demon automatically gains Crazed promotion?

Could work fairly nicely. But might be appropriate then to allow for Enslave Divinity to exist as an Anti-Angel capability. Especially since that would mean more people are capable of getting Angels to sacrifice to the Pyre of the Seraphic.

 

[odalrick]

And any captured Demon automatically gains Crazed promotion?.

I have to ask: "Why?"
You've made a difficult promotion to get, with no value against non-demons, for the sole purpose of capturing demons.
Then you want to nerf it into oblivion, by making the demons useless for any longterm plans.

If I wanted disposable units, I wouldn't invest 6 promotions into possibly capturing demons from my enemy. I'd invest 2 promotions into summoning magic, and avoid the drawbacks of exposing the caster to combat, paying upkeep for fodder units, healing cannonfodder and possibly... probably, not facing demons in the first place.

What's next? A promotion that requires Dwarwen, Enchantment I, Combat V, Hero, Drill III and Shock I that allows you to kill any Worker units you defeat?

I'm not overly fond of the Shock and Cover lines either, since they are nigh useless against mixed stacks, and completely useless against single units if your guess was incorrect.

If always capturing demons is to powerful: Either make it unreliable, like Command; or my preference, make it give a combat penalty against demons. Capturing something is always harder than killing it, and it would make demons, your preferred prey, more likely to defend.

 

[Alzara]

Nice concept, but I can see what odalrick is saying. I guess for lore purposes it makes sense that demons are bound "on-summoning", rather than when already in Erebus, where they can be killed or banished.

Al

 

[msb45]

what about making something of this sort for the grigori only?

I've always found them somewhat at the whim of the armageddon counter since they can't adopt a religion.

Thematically it works too, since you can sort of see Cassiel (or one of his agents, maybe an adventurer only promotion) convincing an angel or demon to give up the fight and join his civilization.

 

[Alzara]

Demon-capturing in the hands of the Grigori... can't say I approve

Al

 

[xienwolf]

Well, I only said Crazed because the original idea was that they could slip the binds. And it isn't too terribly hard to get the promotion, but yes it is most likely better to get a summoning spell, unless you are neighboring Hyborem.

 

[odalrick]

I was ranting against the concept that any advantage has to be coupled with horrible drawbacks, which is all too common in games. Sorry xienwolf had to be on the recieving end.

Instead of a regular promotion, it could be a spell. Say: Dimensional III, grants Extraplanar Net to all stacked units. Extraplanar Net captures 50% of all defeated Angels and Demons, maybe Elementals too. Also gives -20% combat vs them and any captured units get Crazed.

 

[thapagan]

I an not a big fan of all the minor race variants, Angels demons and undead, illusion, puppets, elementals, and others. I understand the flavor, but I think some races should be merged, angels and demons give them and extra planer promotion, or if you want to keep the goovs evil thing going merge undead with demons or......

"nah it would never work" Steve Martin SNL

 

[rusty217]

I an not a big fan of all the minor race variants, Angels demons and undead, illusion, puppets, elementals, and others. I understand the flavor, but I think some races should be merged, angels and demons give them and extra planer promotion, or if you want to keep the goovs evil thing going merge undead with demons or......

"nah it would never work" Steve Martin SNL

Umm, but if angels and demons are the same thing then things with demon slaying such as valin phanuel would be able to kill angels as well as demons...


And merging undead and demons is just wrong... you can make liches, they are most certainly not demons, oh and it would make OO and AV practically the same religion...

Whats wrong with race variants?

Boo to minor race variant racist type people....!

Oh, and merging angel and demon promotion would make demons sacrificable at the pyre, which would be wrong...

 

[stp]

I think that different race promotions are good and would like to see some more (for example representing the magical nature of the amurites). However, every one should have their unique characteristics like the elven wood movement bonus. Demon and Angel represent some of the most powerful units in the game and make them non-living so they make sense. From what I know Illusion and Puppet promotions do nothing at the moment. Is there any advantage in these promotions that I fail to understand at the moment?

 

[rusty217]

Well illusion makes the unit immune to death and poison damage, so it does something...

 

[Calbrenar]

I an not a big fan of all the minor race variants, Angels demons and undead, illusion, puppets, elementals, and others. I understand the flavor, but I think some races should be merged, angels and demons give them and extra planer promotion, or if you want to keep the goovs evil thing going merge undead with demons or......

"nah it would never work" Steve Martin SNL

gasp! Heaven forbid!

 

[xienwolf]

I haven't found code for, nor tested it, yet but supposedly an Illusion will not fight any non-Living target. Can still attack the stack, but will only be defended against by a Living Unit, and if there are no Living units I guess it either just moves onto the tile like it couldn't see anything there, or it cannot attack.

Puppet just gives them big heads No non-graphical effect on that which I am aware of.

 

[stp]

Well illusion makes the unit immune to death and poison damage, so it does something...

Yeah, but all summons that come to my mind already have that immunity (from elemental, undead, ...). I think that revelation destroys illusions, so it might make a little difference, but other than that there is nothing really new or unique or even only beneficial in these promotions. If revelation truly kills all Illusions it only invaluates Svartalfar summons against the Empyrean, making the promotion harmful.

A little idea to add some flavor that fits the Balseraph: Puppets could gain a small cance to pass the Crazed promotion in combat.

Edit: Didn't know that Illusions will only fight non-living targets, in that case has something unique.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Edit: Didn't know that Illusions will only fight non-living targets, in that case has something unique.

Ilusions only gith living units. This makes them weak against Demons, Angels, and Golems.

 

[stp]

Sorry, for the mistake. It is still unique though

 

[thapagan]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, If I capture a manes, can I add him to my city and get demonic citizens (no un health, no un happyness).

This idea may have merit.

or not?

 

[xienwolf]

You cannot do that with a Manes currently. But it is a good idea for them so that Infernals aren't quite as crippled in a captured City. Though it is fairly fitting for them to have a preference toward razing and settling over capturing.

 

[Alzara]

I really think demon capturing is a bad idea. It would be better to summon. Also it would weaken demon summons if you implemented the idea as people could steal your summoned units.

Demon slaying and order are enough for anti-demon abilities.

Al