Difficulty levelvel

[Shorlin]

What many Deity players won't tell you is how often they re-roll the map when they get stuck with a crappy start. Or when they ragequit on turn 30 cos they start stuck between Montezuma, Gheghis Khan, and Aminitore.

Don't forget save scumming

 

[Casworon]

Re-reading oSieyeza's comment i think i did initially misunderstand it.

I agree a player completely new to 4x games and Civ is not going to be able to play on Deity. But also the way people are representing deity in this thread is simply so alien to my personal experience that i have to say something.

 

[AntSou]

Beyond that, the only way to win at the hardest dificulty is to get a powerful civ, to study the game to the point you memorize an optimal play style, and to be lucky.

There is a very specific type of player, minmaxer, or optimizer, that aproaches the game as an optimization formula, trying to improve strategy and moves to perfection. My cousing, another fan of the game since Civilization I, Is one of them.

I play with him online, and honestly he destroys me.

He rerrolls bad starts, but he does not use exploits. He plays in deity often and his strategy is the kind of trategy that requires very speciphic conditions: Such as "by turn 20 you need to have accomplished this, if you dont, you already lost".

I dont like playing like this, and sometimes I think my cousin has an obsession and is not really enjoying a game. He even says you cannot have "fun" at deity, it is a totally different experience that is very frustrating and unforgiving.

Credit where credit is due, though. It takes patience, passion, and years of practise to learn to play like this by yourself.

He wins less than 1/3 of deity games he plays. And Im sure there are better players out there, but Im not aware of a simple player in the world that wins on deity more than half the games without exploits.

Only 5% of players have ever won at deity. And most of them have used exploits or guides to get the achievement.

In other words, you have to be insane to recommend deity to new players. What is wrong with you people?

Sorry, but this is all nonsense.

I do nothing but roleplay on deity, throw strategies out the window for the sake of fun and handicap myself (never sell diplo for gold, always offer open borders im exchange for open borders and only ever trade luxs for luxs).

I win most of my games on Deity playing like that. I don't know what it is you're describing, but it sounds like a description of what you believe deity to be rather than what it is.

I rarely catch up to the AI before the late Renaissance / Industrial.
---

Beginners who have experience with Civ can safely start on Emperor difficulty and then play Immortal.

Once you move to Deity, to avoid the annoying shenanigans of absurd early aggression on Deity, make sure you do not add any Civs on top of the default amount for each map size.
---

A side note: Deity isn't always the hardest difficulty, that could sometimes be Immortal. The less aggressive AI makes it less likely you'll get free cities early on to boost your start, and the AI is more likely to focus on developing their Empire.

 

[oSiyeza]

Re-reading oSieyeza's comment i think i did initially misunderstand it.

I agree a player completely new to 4x games and Civ is not going to be able to play on Deity. But also the way people are representing deity in this thread is simply so alien to my personal experience that i have to say something.

It is ok. We can all missunderstand sometimes.

Also, I did not pretend to be confrontational.

I think you just lack perspective. You are an elite player and you know it.

You sound like Usain Bolt saying: I don't understand how some people cannot get to the Olympics, I win easily all the time!

Beginners who have experience with Civ can safely start on Emperor difficulty and then play Immortal.

Sorry, you are wrong. This is not true at all.

50% of the players have actually completed the game. Of these ony 1 in 5 has ever won emperor or above.

You know this. And you know what you say is not reasonable at all.

You also know perfectly well, cause you are very active here, that most veteran players play King or Emperor. And by veterans mean the 1000h players.

Im sorry if you disagree, but you have lost your perspective about being a new player.

 

[Tech Osen]

King is the last difficulty level on which you can reliably win simply going with the flow, without min-maxing, chopping everything in sight, optimizing all decisions, chaining eurakas etc. If you are prepared to maximize efficiency at the cost of the roleplaying aspect of the game, the game might really be easy on any difficulty level, with how weak the AI is.

This is also subjective. For me it's at emperor difficulty. And I really don't minmax, most of the times I don't even have a gameplan.
But I also have no interest in trying harder difficulties. I want to be able to freewheel it.

 

[oSiyeza]

This is also subjective. For me it's at emperor difficulty. And I really don't minmax, most of the times I don't even have a gameplan.
But I also have no interest in trying harder difficulties. I want to be able to freewheel it.

You are both right. King and Emperor are the goto difficulties for veterans. Depending on how you like to play, this is where most experienced players find their balance, according to my experience on this forum.

I personally play most of my time on King, and go to emperor when Im in the mood. And Im not afraid of saying that, despite being at the 400 hours mark on Civ 6, I lose on king often enough.

I'm unsure where a totally new player should start. I would recommend prince... I will certainly never ever recomend starting emperor or above.

I'm really baffled by this conversation. I was sure this was just a bit of trolling. Now I think this community may have become a bit elitist, and self indulgent. Maybe there is such a thing as too much civ.

This is how human brains work (I'm a psychologist in the making) we bias ourselves the whole time.

I know I am biased, and my experience is not the experience of other people. I'm used to this, as I'm also a kind of an expert in theological debates. But still...

There are people recommending deity for new players...

Just wow.

 

[Casworon]

It is ok. We can all missunderstand sometimes.

Also, I did not pretend to be confrontational.

I think you just lack perspective. You are an elite player and you know it.

You sound like Usain Bolt saying: I don't understand how some people cannot get to the Olympics, I win easily all the time!

This perspective thing is my entire point. And why OP's question is so difficult to answer.

People's experiences are so different. To the point where the way people are describing Deity in this thread simply doesn't correspond with my experience playing the game, like, at all, it's almost if people have a different game installed on their hard drives. The same way me describing my experiences is almost as if i have a different game installed on my hard drive.

So in a way the only real answer we can give to OP is just to give it a try themselves. Depending on their experience and their approach to Civ, eg a builder vs a warmonger, the level of difficulty they experience is going to be vastly different.

And on the Usain Bolt thing, i wouldn't make the comparison myself, I know there are many players on this forum who are better than me, but thanks anyway, it's very kind . I wouldn't describe myself as an elite player.

 

[snakeboy]

I'm unsure where a totally new player should start. I would recommend prince... I will certainly never ever recomend starting emperor or above.

I'm really baffled by this conversation.

I agree. To recommend Emperor or above, let alone Deity, for a beginning player is absurd to me. Like, totally absurd.

Also, roleplaying on deity? I'd love to see that

 

[Chefofrats]

I publish articles in peer-reviewed journals, which is some evidence I am not a complete idiot, and yet when I first started playing Civ VI, having played all previous Civ games since the early 1990s, I almost lost my first game on... Warlord. I would have likely had my posterior handed to me on a silver platter by the AI had I played on Prince, or higher. Especially now, with all the different mechanics introduced in the expansions, I find it almost impossible to believe a newcomer would handle any of the higher difficulty levels.

 

[AntSou]

Sorry, you are wrong. This is not true at all.

50% of the players have actually completed the game. Of these ony 1 in 5 has ever won emperor or above.

How many have attempted Emperor or above?

You know this. And you know what you say is not reasonable at all.

You also know perfectly well, cause you are very active here, that most veteran players play King or Emperor. And by veterans mean the 1000h players.

I know no such thing.

You are both right. King and Emperor are the goto difficulties for veterans. Depending on how you like to play, this is where most experienced players find their balance, according to my experience on this forum.

I personally play most of my time on King, and go to emperor when Im in the mood. And Im not afraid of saying that, despite being at the 400 hours mark on Civ 6, I lose on king often enough.

I'm unsure where a totally new player should start. I would recommend prince... I will certainly never ever recomend starting emperor or above.

I'm really baffled by this conversation. I was sure this was just a bit of trolling. Now I think this community may have become a bit elitist, and self indulgent. Maybe there is such a thing as too much civ.

This is how human brains work (I'm a psychologist in the making) we bias ourselves the whole time.

I know I am biased, and my experience is not the experience of other people. I'm used to this, as I'm also a kind of an expert in theological debates. But still...

There are people recommending deity for new players...

Just wow.

No man, it's just you're being a bit arrogant and are seemigly unable to grasp that some people just do not accept your argument at all.

The only person who recommended Deity was Lily.

And where did you get the data that most veterans play on King?

 

[oSiyeza]

This perspective thing is my entire point. And why OP's question is so difficult to answer.

People's experiences are so different. To the point where the way people are describing Deity in this thread simply doesn't correspond with my experience playing the game, like, at all, it's almost if people have a different game installed on their hard drives. The same way me describing my experiences is almost as if i have a different game installed on my hard drive.

So in a way the only real answer we can give to OP is just to give it a try themselves. Depending on their experience and their approach to Civ, eg a builder vs a warmonger, the level of difficulty they experience is going to be vastly different.

And on the Usain Bolt thing, i wouldn't make the comparison myself, I know there are many players on this forum who are better than me, but thanks anyway

It was just an analogy

But you are right, it works that way, and is certainly amazing.

Now that I think about it... I may want to make my master thesis on psychology about this .

Is also worth noting, that many things can affect difficulty beyond the difficulty setting. Map size, your civilization, the other civilizations, victory type...

I like to chose personally half of my enemies at random, and the other I like to face strong civs like Korea. Also as stupid as it sounds, I never chop, and very rarely pillage. Im not handicaping myself, I just think is not a nice move, haha. Things like this can really affect how hard of a time you will have.

 

[AntSou]

How many times have you actually tried Emperor or Immortal?

 

[oSiyeza]

How many have attempted Emperor or above?



I know no such thing.



No man, it's just you're being a bit arrogant and are seemigly unable to grasp that some people just do not accept your argument at all.

The only person who recommended Deity was Lily.

And where did you get the data that most veterans play on King?

I said most veterans play on king or emperor. I have no data on this besides my experience of the forum and the achievement rates.

You maybe think I'm arrogant for not thinking that unexperienced players will enjoy playing on Emperor, since I don’t want to uphold new players to my veteran standards. I don’t think this can be called an arrogant position by any standard.

Also I don’t know how many players have tried high difficulties. I’m just assuming players play the difficulty they feel more comfortable with. And 90% of civ players seem to think emperor and above is not this point.

I think to pretend that a new player can start in a difficulty setting that 90% of the players find too difficult is not a reasonable advice.

How many times have you actually tried Emperor or Immortal?

I try emperor from time to time. When I'm in the mood.

I have tried Immortal a couple of times, I don’t play on Immortal because it is too hard for me. And I don't enjoy it.

No mystery about it. I have my balance on King.

I know I'm not any standard, but I think is reasonable to not expect from new players the skill I have with 300 hours of gameplay on this game, and I just don’t want to think on my combined experience with civ 1-5.

 

[conor83]

So many diffrent opinions on this i will just have to try it myself.Idident play civ 6 but i can only tell from my expiriance that civ 4 ai(realism invictus mod)can crush my skull even on king while civ 5(no mods)diety is very easy.Im not cosider myself a very good player but im veteran of grand startegy 4x games(all civs, pardox games).My only concern with civ 6 is that there are no good mods from what i see in the workshop and i suspect that no moded civ 6 ai can be total 0 but i will try it thx guys i rly appreciate that you shared youre expiriance with this game

 

[AntSou]

You maybe think Im arrogant for not thinking that unexperienced players will enjoy playing on Emperor, since I dont want to uphold new players to my veteran standards. I dont think this can be called an arrogant position by any standard.

Nice spin.

You're arrogant because you claimed that I'm lying and that I know that I'm lying. You say this because it is inconceivable to you that your subjective experience is anything but objective.

Also I dont know how many players have tried high difficulties. Im just assuming players play the difficulty they feel more comfortably with. And 90% of civ players seem to think emperor and above is not this point.

I think to pretend that I new player can start in a difficulty setting that 90% of the players find too difficult is not a reasonable advice.

You keep pulling numbers out of thin air.

 

[oSiyeza]

Nice spin.

You're arrogant because you claimed that I'm lying and that I know that I'm lying. You say this because it is inconceivable to you that your subjective experience is anything but objective.

You keep pulling numbers out of thin air.

I said you are wrong, saying that Emperor is a reasonable difficulty for newcomers.

I know you are a veteran, and I assumed you know the game stats, and you know this forum; but you are right, I should have not phrased it that way.

I don’t think you are lying at all, I think you are just upholding other people to your standards because you are in the perspective of your own gameplay style and experience. And forget that you cannot pretend other people to have that experience.

My numbers are public. 90.4% of the players have never won on emperor or above according to steam. We cannot know how many players just won once, or got the achievement using an exploit, or like me play from time to time above their setting. Saying 90% dont play on emperor or above is a conservative number. My only assuption is that players play usually on their preferred dificulty setting according to their skills.

You can argue that I should correct by the number of people never winning a game, so the actual number would be more like 80%. But still my numbers are not off.

 

[Casworon]

So many diffrent opinions on this i will just have to try it myself.Idident play civ 6 but i can only tell from my expiriance that civ 4 ai(realism invictus mod)can crush my skull even on king while civ 5(no mods)diety is very easy.Im not cosider myself a very good player but im veteran of grand startegy 4x games(all civs, pardox games).My only concern with civ 6 is that there are no good mods from what i see in the workshop and i suspect that no moded civ 6 ai can be total 0 but i will try it thx guys i rly appreciate that you shared youre expiriance with this game

No worries! and hope you enjoy it! Despite my problems with the game it is still a lot of fun (At the end of the day its still Civ ). I just pray we can get our hands on the DLL one day

For a thread about whether to recommend the game to someone or not this seems to be getting very confrontational...

 

[Pietato]

Always remember to ignore lily. He is an online speed constant war special sausage.

 

[Chefofrats]

My forum experience improved greatly when I literally ignored Lily.

 

[Basajaun]

It is only "easy" if you already know the game pretty well. Deity starts with 3 settlers, 5 warriors and I think 2 or 3 builders and doble yields. Which gives them a really big advantage if they happen to spot your capital in the first turns. If you can survive ancient/classical era, you will probably be good, but if you dont play with some degree of planning/optimization, they can definitely make a game challenging/make you lose.

The easiest path to victory (any victory, except perhaps diplomatic with the latest changes) is dominating your opponents with military. If you are playing for example, continents, and you defeat the AIs in your continent, you will have stolen enough wonders and districts that no matter what you do from that point onwards, you will win regardless sooner or later.

A new player will find even prince challenging not because of the AI, but the humongous amount of choices presented in the early game. I have played Civ occasionally basically all my life, especially Civ V, and I found Civ 6 to be quite overwhelming.
Chopping doesnt happen automatically with a builder anymore, and proper district placement vs "this looks good" placement make a big impact on your progress.

Adding to this; game speed completely changes how you play the game as well. In online speed, you can churn out several units/civilians/buildings before even meeting any civ or cs. If you play marathon, you might have already explored your whole continent before you plant your second city.