Dirk's deity game pt II

[Dirk1302]

@obs true, one of the most important being when you're bottom half you can trade with other bottom halfers without fear of wfyabta. In this case this isn't too relevant. There are 3 ais missing and diplo is positive, good chance of getting Han to friendly around FM so i can trade with impunity without fearing wfyabta too much. Can get SB too friendly but it's almost sure already i'll attack him some stage of the game, it's just too easy boxed in as he is.

 

[Artichoker]

Now i'm going to forget about the south eastern clam/fish site. I've blocked off enough land for at least 10 cities. Capital can grow to 6 atm and should begin on the library. We're dong well if feel. 5 cities pre 1000 bc each with 2c traderoutes and scientists already assigned. Akkad took control of the unirrigated (but farmed by Han ) rice . I think we can keep that rice which means Akkad is quite a good city in the end.Saved some 200 bucks already so i have some leeway here. Settling the gems city'll hurt a bit but i think getting it up now is best, will cost some money but with a grass cow and forested hills this city can help with some extra workers soon. Diplo looks good too with SB and Han pleased and Han and Liz annoyed with each other.

Good demonstration of this style of play...blocking off a big area of land, even at the cost of short-term income.

About the use of the 1st GS...I brought up that idea because in some games I actually do bulb Philosophy using the 1st GS that I get, and it can be good in those games. But given the way you have chosen to play this game, I can see how it would not be practical in this situation.

Now it will interesting to see how the Liberalism race unfolds, with the economy strained by rapid expansion (for now)...

 

[Artichoker]

Spoiler :

Before
City Maintenence 10
Civic Upkeep 1

After
City Maintenence 16
Civic Upkeep 3

Not worth it.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts...in this example, the parts are the individual cities that are settled to block off land. Each city, by itself, is unable to block off rival AIs from settling inward, but when all cities are settled, the block of that big chunk of land is then complete.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link...therefore the weakest link must be strengthened at all costs.

 

[bestsss]

Artichoker, the difference is only one turn. 1gold saved on unit cost, though, not included by Dave. There is some small chance Han to break through but more annoying is getting a barb city nearby (extra culture would prevent that)

 

[Dirk1302]

Close borders with SB as planned and founded 2 new cities.







Fishing researched, Han goes wheoohrn, begin growing te capital to 6





Han builds GLH, that's bad news. It won't be easy now to catch him redhanded (without rifles that is).




Han declares on Liz, lots of hatred now.


But unfortunately Han converts to hinduism, that's bad for sure, i'll have to follow sometime, wonder if it's risky to wait for the war between Liz and Han to end.

Some questions need to be answered now:

Do we convert immediately to hinduism, do we wait or do we stay in judaism? Last option is not such a good plan long term i think.

Library is up in capital, do we raise slider to 100% now or wait for the GS. I have saved > 300 gold so i think slider should be raised now. That'll cost me 19 gpt and i'll have 49 bpt with scientists assigned in capital 44 bpt without.

Do we assign 2 scientists in capital? Settler'll take 10 turns in that case, worker 6. Or do we work all the tiles, we'll have settlers in 6, workers in 4 turns in that case. Assigning the scientists now doesn't make so much difference now, only 5 bpt.I have 5 cities up and the block is complete. I have 3 workers and no iw yet to clear the jungle. If i were to build an academy in capital in 6 turns (GS is 5 turns now) i should certainly assign scientists then but i haven't thought about deployment for the GS too much as of yet. Aest can be researched in 10 turns now, poly will take some turns too. Must trade aest for math subsequently, by that time i need forests prechopped in future parthenon city, i'll need masonry and marble up. So maybe getting some more workers now is a good idea.

 

[Silu]

Convert immediately, I don't see much point in waiting. SB sucks at heathen hating and time to rack up diplo with your neighbors is nice. EDIT: do you have hindu anywhere in the first place? Can't see in those shots.

If GS is in 5 turns keep cranking workers full speed in capital until Academy there and then put up scientists. Could wait those 5 turns with the slider too, with Mathchop Parth shouldn't be a problem I think?

 

[Dirk1302]

Yes, hinduism in Dur Kurigalzu. Converting immediately drops the happy cap to 5 in capital unfortunately. Jury's still out on use of the GS but i tend to agree that academy in capital is best. Actually i think fastbuilding one worker in capital then converting and assigning scientists might be the most precise way. Capital will be somewhat useless unfortunately after it's cap has dropped to 5 and 2 scientists have been assigned. But the position is so good that converting soon is the safest way to play.

 

[DaveMcW]

Academy in the capital is worth 10bpt at max science, but that drops as soon as you run out of gold. Settled GS is quite competitive with that in the short term.

I don't think building an academy and then moving the palace away is a profitable long-term strategy.

 

[Silu]

Ah true of course. I'd guess the war won't be that long though and Liz will spam hindu for every city after. If you wanted you could wait with conversion after their war is over but I don't think it matters too much either way.

EDIT: There's no single outstanding use for that GS assuming moving capital, all the 3 possibilities (settle in future Oxford, academy in future Oxford, academy in capital) peak at different times and have different pros and cons. Depends somewhat on when the capital is going to be moved.

 

[Dirk1302]

Reason for academy in capital would be the need for short term research getting to aest->masonry->poly->lit. My chances for part end GL look good anyway but the sooner the better. Long term the capital 'll be best used for production and some specs and indeed an academy is not so great in such a city. Haven't mentioned it yet but capital can still be cottaged, problem is there are only 2 riversides and the rest of the tiles will be villages (=3 commerce) max for a long time.

Long term maybe an academy in the dye city would be best, it has best long term potential for research, additional advantage would be the 4 culture to be doubled 500 AD in a city that will need culture. Would hurt short term though.

 

[Silu]

Academy culture never doubles. Or at least the listed value, is that just a display bug?

Starting to think settle in dye city would be best for this if actually if not many cottages in current capital and not a very fast capital switch.

 

[Dirk1302]

Are you sure? I thought culture from every building doubled over time but admit to never having checked that for the academy.

Related, where should i build parthenon and where the GL. I have no chopping power in dye city, some chopping power in gems city but not too much. GL would be best in nippur but no production there either. Not having the wine city up right now hurts, well couldn't do everything at once unfortunately. I can chop parthenon in gems city where it helps a bit with culture as well but i'll probably have to chop GL in capital. And if this is the case there's much more to be said for an academy there. (Chain ) irrigation can make a good gp farm out of it, under caste system an academy isn't great but not bad either. It'll take time to setup dye city as a good alternative, i can make an academy later there. It strikes me with all this that not having a very good buro capital makes playing a bit more complicated, most of the time academy in capital is the obvious choice in combination with some early river tile cottages.

Just some thoughts, i'm interested in other ideas, settling the GS in dye city could be good but with a library it's just 7.5 beakers, that's really not much compared to an academy, i may have to drop the slider although maybe i can stay at 100% for quite some time if we all get currency in time. After currency and GL the academy'll be worth more while a settled spec will be constant in worth for quite some time regardless of city as long as it has a library, will get a bit better after uni and a lot after oxford and rep.

If i have to chop GL in capital i think an academy there is best.

@Silu, you're right about the academy, don't believe in a display bug.

 

[DaveMcW]

After currency and GL the academy'll be worth more while a settled spec will be constant in worth for quite some time regardless of city as long as it has a library, will get a bit better after uni and a lot after oxford and rep.

Settled spec also improves when your second GS builds an academy.

 

[JammerUno]

Even short term bpt won't be helped much by an academy at this point. When upkeep gets higher academy returns drop fast, and to outperform a settled GS you'll need quite a high slider or use specs extensively. For reaching lit I think settling would be the better choice, academy is still the best long term.

The question is, will you get to lit fast enough to claim the GL if you use him for an academy? If so, you'll lose some beakers short term without consequence; there's no real cost involved with an academy in that case, since you'll probably break even in total beaker output from the GS fairly soon after the GL.

About switching religion: Does slavery whip unhappiness decrease when in anarchy? If so, I think it will be best if you whip away the unhappy townsfolk before switching.

 

[kossin]

I think turning up the slider to at least get Pottery would be nice for the economy. The Academy in the Capital might be ok short term but...

By the time you make it you'll have about 378 and at 100% you'll be at -19gpt (assuming you don't get more costs, but it will be more soon), for about 19~20 turns of 100% research.
As Dave said, it will be worth about 10 with the cottages you might put in it, so we're talking of around 200 from the Academy. Settling it in your new city will take (about 27) around 30 turns to match that output (you'll be breaking even at around 40% after that). OTOH you have to wait 5 more turns to get it so you actually gain around 5~7 (rounding a lot) turns worth of research towards Literature.

If those 5~7 turns mean the difference between getting TGL+Parth then yes go for an Academy.

 

[whats a navy]

I say build academy in gems city and move the cap to that city. You can cottage it with all the grassland, though no rivers. You have a decent shot at GL because of the hills and trees to chop. At size four you can work hill gems, grass hill, plain hills, and cows giving ten hammers per turn. And have you thought about settling marble city yet for GL? This site may not be as long term as dye city but with GL and working gems tiles it can be pretty good short and mid term.

 

[obsolete]

Must trade aest for math subsequently, by that time i need forests prechopped in future parthenon city, i'll need masonry and marble up.

Careful here, a lot of time I have found myself with the AI`s having no stone or not enough Ind`s around, and then you have to wait SOOOOOO long for math you have no choice but to re-search it on your own.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Dave, i did some calculations and i think you're right. At 100% science the capital will put out 10 extra beakers, with GL it would be 13 extra beakers compared to no academy. So without GL i'd break even with a settled scientist (=8 beakers + 1H with a lib in town, dye city's almost there) at 80%, with GL at 60-70%.So short term i gain only a few beakers and only as long as i run 100%.

Long term a settled spec in dye city which is to be the cottaged capital with oxford in the future is much better.

There is an other consideration I need more workers + 1 settler fast, when i get iw i need to do a lot of work on dye city and gems city. I also need to prechop for the marble wonders and get marble up and roaded. I also need a settler for the marble site. So it seems workers and settler is more of a constraint of getting the wonders up quickly than a few beakers. Without an academy in capital i don't really need to assign scientists there so it can build a settler and 4 workers in 22 turns, maybe ~2 turns sooner when i get that last mine up there.

An academy in dye city doesn't give enough research short term gain (same goes for academy in gems city) so i think settling a spec there is correct. Without this discussion i would probably have chosen academy in capital without much thought .

As for converting, i think i should do so when i get 1 happy resource so i can keep the capital at size 6 without unhappiness. Could be gems but might also be wine from SB for instance, he just researched monarchy.

@obsolete, that's indeed possible, Liz and Han are such good techers that math will probably be available around the time in need it but no guarantee.

 

[Duckweed]

Settling 1st GS is always my last choice. Cash is usually abundant in deity.

 

[Dirk1302]

^Absolutely agree and there is a good chance that i can run 100% slider until ~1000 AD. Happens often enough. In this case the capital is so low on commerce though that i'm inclined to agree with Dave and others. Mind you Rusten has a tendency to settle his first GS in some cases too so it can't be all that bad i feel. Here Liz and Han maybe out of tech reach for some time and SB probably won't be a big cash cow. Also it's no pangeae, we don't know all ais yet.

What's your suggestion, academy in capital or maybe academy in dye city?