Do you think galleys should be improved?

[Imuratep]

Though you can see it quite often building galleys the FFH AI never attacks from the sea.
The reason is obvious: It does not get it that you have to give the ship an extra cargo space to be able to use these troops properly.
IMHO this would be easily solvable by giving them 1 extra cargo space and by adding the Expanded Hull promotion to them from the beginning. That way a ship could transport as many troops as in vanilla and considering your efforts to get sailing are much higher it would be more than fair.

 

[Methuselah]

Though you can see it quite often building galleys the FFH AI never attacks from the sea.
The reason is obvious: It does not get it that you have to give the ship an extra cargo space to be able to use these troops properly.

Also not forgetting that galleys can not enter oceans, so they are not overly useful.

IMHO this would be easily solvable by giving them 1 extra cargo space and by adding the Expanded Hull promotion to them from the beginning. That way a ship could transport as many troops as in vanilla and considering your efforts to get sailing are much higher it would be more than fair.

Triremes already fulfil the role of an early transport ship (again they are limited to coastal squares.) Optics is only 1 tech after sailing however which gives you seaworthy ships, so I do not think galleys need adjusting.

 

[Diamondeye]

Having the AI be better at using crews or adding a cargo space to AI vessels could be an idea.

Now, to learn them to use it...

 

[Imuratep]

It's not thought for a human player (though I think the investment you would have to make for finally getting real transports is MUCH to high). A human player can just add expanded hull (though 1 cargo is of course very uneffective for leading war) It's thought for the AI as the AI builds galleys quite a lot and researches Optic very late.

 

[Methuselah]

It's not thought for a human player (though I think the investment you would have to make for finally getting real transports is MUCH to high). A human player can just add expanded hull (though 1 cargo is of course very uneffective for leading war) It's thought for the AI as the AI builds galleys quite a lot and researches Optic very late.

I guess if it was linked just for AI's or something, sure.

But, their naval AI needs adjusting more so. I've seen them build queen of the line's before for example, but they spent most of the time docked in a city.

 

[the_fish]

Do people generally like the ship reconfiguration "spells"? I always found them to be unnecessary micro. The naval AI would obviously be improved with their removal.

 

[Bitwise]

Do people generally like the ship reconfiguration "spells"? I always found them to be unnecessary micro. The naval AI would obviously be improved with their removal.

In general, no. The crew configuration allows me to build fewer ships, but in general I don't feel it adds enough and it hurts the AI.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I can do without them.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Any improvement in the AI handling or even use of invasion fleets? I'm mostly for - this one could help. Right? I'm thinking only slightly though. The AI needs more help than that...

 

[Imuratep]

Could perhaps someone who knows how BTS AI works say why BTS AI manages to lead war with ships while FFH AI doesn't?

 

[zbelg]

I'm apparently in the minority, I love the system. The crews are one of the features I was first attracted to in FFH- I like that you can strip your warships for more cargo if you're transporting a large army, focus other ships on exploration, help out defending ships close to your cities, etc.

I agree that the AI should really be given some sort of benefit, though. I don't think I've ever actually seen units in galleys.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I believe FF has this right. galleys start with cargo space so the AI understands they can use them as a transport. 2 cargo spaces works best cuz the AI can send guarded settler/workers that way.

 

[Turinturambar]

Do people generally like the ship reconfiguration "spells"? I always found them to be unnecessary micro. The naval AI would obviously be improved with their removal.

No, most often it's not really a choice, because one option is more suited to your needs anyway. I'd increase the general cargo capacity by one for each ship and make crew toggling lanun-only. That way the mechanic stays in the game, but it won't bother players who don't care to micromanage their fleets.

 

[the_fish]

No, most often it's not really a choice, because one option is more suited to your needs anyway. I'd increase the general cargo capacity by one for each ship and make crew toggling lanun-only. That way the mechanic stays in the game, but it won't bother players who don't care to micromanage their fleets.

This is a good idea.

Is it implementable without UUs for the Lanun? I suppose it could be enabled by a promotion, granted like Sinister/Dextrous...

 

[WarKirby]

I think it is a bad idea. I like micromanaging my ships. There generally aren't many of them, and I like the control.

 

[Emptiness]

In general, I'm against dumbing the mod down to help the AI cope. I feel that a better approach is to smart the AI up.

I really like the the ability to reconfigure ships. This is one of the aspects of FfH2 that was immediately appealing to me, and frankly I wish it was available in vanilla Civ.

I don't agree that the AI's difficulties with naval assault are caused by ship reconfiguration or insufficient base transport capacity on early ships. It is true that the AI doesn't get ship reconfiguration (I've never seen the AI do it yet, which I admit does handicap its navy) however even once the AI can build ships that start with 2 or more cargo capacity it still fails to initiate any real naval assaults. If an AI is on an island it will never leave it (even to expand), and if I'm on an island then the AI will never attack me (with the exception of sending the occasional ship to harass). I gave up using the Erebus map because the AI can't cope with using a ship to get to another map area, and I've recently been playing only single-landmass map types because of this problem. Hopefully this serious deficiency in the AI will be addressed when the other AI problems in FfH2 are being corrected.

 

[Jet]

I don't know, but the naval part of the game as a whole feels weak. Too many boat units that are too similar to each other, wierd metal requirements (why not just give them metal promotions?), and a not working right naval invasion AI.

 

[zup]

I agree. Just increasing galley cargo capacity will not make navies interesting.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I've seen the AI land troops on my shores.

 

[Turinturambar]

In general, I'm against dumbing the mod down to help the AI cope. I feel that a better approach is to smart the AI up.

I really like the the ability to reconfigure ships. This is one of the aspects of FfH2 that was immediately appealing to me, and frankly I wish it was available in vanilla Civ.

I don't agree that the AI's difficulties with naval assault are caused by ship reconfiguration or insufficient base transport capacity on early ships. It is true that the AI doesn't get ship reconfiguration (I've never seen the AI do it yet, which I admit does handicap its navy) however even once the AI can build ships that start with 2 or more cargo capacity it still fails to initiate any real naval assaults.

I have seen the lategame Deity AI do intercontinental invasions (against another deity AI even, so it wasn't just a lone ship attacking), so the possibility is there, but my hunch is that the extremely limited cargocapacity acts as a huge deterrant to the AIs decision making.