Does Stalin really belong in the game?

[Onionsoilder]

Stalin deserves a spot in the game, as does Hitler and Mussolini. Sure, they did horrible things, but it is impossible to deny how they shaped the world. For the German version Hitler could be replaced with another leader, similar to how Mao is replaced in the Chinese version. As others have stated, many other leaders in the game have done things just as bad if not worse, such as Isabella, Montezuma and Alexander.

 

[jsweeney]

even roosevelt and lincoln had people who didn't like them, even though they are seen as top presidents in a bunch of polls and stuff

 

[Icekommander]

This is DEAD people, let it lie. It was the Subject of Thread Necromancy and really doesn't have anything else that hasn't already been said and concluded.

 

[DionyKH]

Rome v Carthage anyone?
Now that's genocide.

Not only sacked the city and put every survivor into slavery, but they destroyed the city so that "not one stone stood upon another," and theeeeeeeeeen salted the earth for 50 miles surrounding the city.

Rome knew how to make a statement, methinks.

 

[bestbrian]

This is DEAD people, let it lie. It was the Subject of Thread Necromancy and really doesn't have anything else that hasn't already been said and concluded.

I SO ditto this (but, then again, someone would just start another thread with the same topic).

 

[whitelaughter]

and theeeeeeeeeen salted the earth for 50 miles surrounding the city.

Their salting the earth is a myth. (Not that I'm saying that what they did do was acceptable. Mind you, they didn't think so either, and blamed future misfortunes on the 'Punic Curse' divine punishment for it).

 

[Gorey]

there's only one reason games don't include hitler and nazi symbols. it's because including them would make the game unsellable in germany (where it would be illegal).

it's about money. the gain in profit far outweighs the loss of historical significance.

thats where the modders come in.

 

[Supr49er]

I saw Native American baskets with a reverse swastika at the San Antonio de Padua Mission. Seems like its an ancient symbol forever ruined.

Welcome to the Forums Gorey.

 

[Ace of Gold]

there's only one reason games don't include hitler and nazi symbols. it's because including them would make the game unsellable in germany (where it would be illegal).

it's about money. the gain in profit far outweighs the loss of historical significance.

thats where the modders come in.

not just Germany, but Austria, Czech republic, and i think Poland, im not sure

 

[a4phantom]

Stalin he probably was THE biggest monster, much much bigger than Adolf Hitler but this westernized view of good vs evil has personified him as much better than in reality

Stalin, like Hitler, was a devil.
Stalin, unlike Hitler, wasn't a complete loser.

 

[Joshua368]

not just Germany, but Austria, Czech republic, and i think Poland, im not sure

Couldn't the localized version of the game for those countries just have him modded out? Like how the Chinese leaders were changed in their version?

Definitely would be a fun leader to have around, and a perfect AGG/CHA.

 

[Wodan]

Couldn't the localized version of the game for those countries just have him modded out? Like how the Chinese leaders were changed in their version?

Definitely would be a fun leader to have around, and a perfect AGG/CHA.

It's a world market. A localized version costs quite a bit.

Anyway about all I play is the Wolfshanze mod so I have no complaints.

 

[Justy]

I think that this argument about Stalin, thread Necromancy aside, is about 17 / 18 years too late since Stalin was in Civ I. Then again there are all those Avalon Hill war games with Soviets and Nazis etc. History is history, don't bother applying present day values on the past. It doesn't work. If you want to play a game based on history which basically revolves around war, don't cry when you see the skeletons.

 

[Ace of Gold]

I think that this argument about Stalin, thread Necromancy aside, is about 17 / 18 years too late since Stalin was in Civ I. Then again there are all those Avalon Hill war games with Soviets and Nazis etc. History is history, don't bother applying present day values on the past. It doesn't work. If you want to play a game based on history which basically revolves around war, don't cry when you see the skeletons.

But again, its all about the money, they don't want to make a separate version of Civ just for Germany

The leaders in Civ actually did something good for their country, thats why they are in Civ, Hitler did not do anything good for Germany, he ruined it. Why should he be in Civ if he did not do anything for the Country he ruled.

Stalin might of killed as much people as Hitler but at least he was a great leader who actually helped Russia.

 

[DBear]

I think ALL the WWII leaders should be in. Mussolini, Hirohito, Franco and Hitler as well as Churchill, FDR, De Gaulle and Stalin. I guess this proves the old saying that the winners write the history books.

 

[jsweeney]

One other point. Stalin was on America's side. Nuff said

 

[Iranon]

Hitler doesn't belong, and not only because of German anti-Nazi Nazis.

All leaders currently in the game were either mostly successful OR are still cultural icons seen in a positive or at least neutral light.
None of them failed AND are almost universally reviled.

Replacing him with Von Papen in the Road to War mod is a travesty though.

 

[Antilogic]

That was just so they could legally sell the game in Germany. You do know there is an "expansion pack" download that fixes this, right?

I think ALL the WWII leaders should be in. Mussolini, Hirohito, Franco and Hitler as well as Churchill, FDR, De Gaulle and Stalin. I guess this proves the old saying that the winners write the history books.

Why? This game covers over 6000 years of human history, more than ample material. And now you want to add another 4 WW2 leaders to the already prodigious number? 15-20% of the leaders in the game coming from a single period?

There are so many better choices, if people would pay attention to more than the last century.

 

[bestbrian]

Oh, just let this thread die already. Unless you've read every post in it and have something constructive and new to add, just let it go.

 

[Roller123]

This thread makes no sense. The only thing which makes less sense is comparing Hitler to Stalin. He didnt exterminate ethnic groups, unlike germans with Holocaust, americans with their black slaves problem, or japanese who perceived chinese as little more than vegetables. Also the OP is completely ignorant. *shakes head* Stalin killed jews? Stalin was the key figure in establishing postwar Israel.