Double Your Pleasure

[Donegeal]

Possible bug:

I modded DyP so that the no one could build settler units and leader could build cities. However, my problem did not come from my mods. Let me explain the situation:

I am isolated on an island with the Zulu (I am China). We both have one city and do not have contact with anyone other than each other. My city grows to size 8 (I have an inland lake on my border) and I am working a gold tile, a silk tile and an Iron tile on a tiny map. All the rest of the tiles worked have a road. I am playing on Warlord level. I have built the Colossus. Both governments types are Despotism. My Sci slider is set to 60% (the higest allowable for this government) and neither of us have discovered Lit. Shaka only has a size 7 city and only two fur tiles to give extra commerce.

I cannot compete with him in the research department. We had had two wars already and each time he gives me 2 techs and money for peace. He is continually a head of me in the tech department. I have at least 9 more units of commerce per turn than him (more like 12 or 13 with the gold, silk and inland lake). Why can't I keep up? Does the AI get a research bonus at this level? I don't believe they do. This is where my suposed bug comes in. I think that the AI is not limited by the slider restrictions based on government types. Has this come up before?

 

[Donegeal]

Oops... Double post.

 

[Kal-el]

that is interesting, I don't think anybody has ever tried anything like that.

Make sure you set the leaders AI to Settler and Leader, otherwise the AI won't know what to do with them.

 

[Donegeal]

Yeah... the leader building a city deal is another issue. I marked the settler strat for a leader (so it has leader and settler marked). Funny thing is is that the AI still doesn't know how to use them. And thank god for that, cause the AI was able to build them. This problem though is all mine and I will fix it (sometime). However, back to the AI Slider restriction bug. is there just something I'm doing wrong?

 

[Isak]

Some people seem to think that the AI can trade with other AI's even before they have had first contact. Not sure though - I'll try to test if the AI is limited by the Rate Cap, but I think it's going to be a bit tough to test really.

 

[lz14]

The tech tree and wonder list is really top class. Dyp is more qualified to the name 'civilization'. The oringinal game was more like a 'western civ'. Although most late wonders are still Europe/US, but I guess that's just history.
Adding Marxism before communism is right!
And I hope you guys can strengthen the modern age tech tree a bit more, it looks quite slim right now.

 

[dguichar]

I was playing a game as the Carthaginians against the Babylonians, Koreans and Indians. I built the Great Library and guest what...

I got "Natural Curiosity", because both Babylonians and Koreans were scientific. So it's like i'm now half scientific, i got their unique specialist. If i were able to get an extra advance by era, then i'll be fully scientifc. Obviously, that's not possible... unless i demand it as a tribute.

Keep civilized

David

 

[Kal-el]

yeah, that's what happens, but it doesn't really give you an advantage, because by the time you build the GL you should have researched philosophy or should be close to doing so, and at that point you get your own advanced specialists that give the same bonus as the Scientific Wisemen.

 

[pdescobar]

I decided to try out DyP 1.04 (GFX) under PTW 1.14f but it has thus far been a frustrating experience. The main problems I have stem from the state of the documentation, particularly the Civilopedia. I rely on the civilopedia alot to look things up, and with the amount of changes and additions in this mod, I'd normally spend as much time in there as in the game itself, initially. But looking things up there has been a confusing and frustrating experience.

Two examples,
-When looking up what techs to go for, I see a new wonder called Chichen Itza, check that out to see it requires Natives as a resource, and then find that Natives don't exist.
-I start out near jungle, notice my tribe can't settle there, check the terrain entries and see nothing about what is and isn't settleable.

Am I correct in assuming, then, that the civilopedia is still very much a work in progress?

Additionally, I am confused by inconsistencies such as the scenario description, which calls itself "Double Your Pleasure with GFX - v. 1.03x" (even though it was installed from "Full_DyP_PtW_1.04x.zip"). It then tells me to "See the DypReadme.txt in the Double Your Pleasure folder for more info. " and lists "Double Your Pleasure" in the search path, but I only have a DyP Folder, so I become worried that I'm missing things...

So, at this point, I have abandoned the civilopedia for anything but the auto-generated portions and am beginning to not trust the other docs either, but I'm going ahead and start up a game as the Ottomans. I settle my first city and move my worker to a plains square to find out that he can't do a darned thing with it. I'm industrious, and Sid tells me I know mining, and the Readme says "Mining Available with Mining" but after looking here, there, and everywhere I find out that I won't be building mines until the middle ages and Engineering.

In summary, this mod looks great. It has all this cool new stuff that I'm dying to see in action, but the documentation is screwing with me so badly that simply sitting here banging my head against the desk is starting to look like far more fun...

Any advice or suggestions? Is there a Tutorial Game or an Idiot's Guide to DyP buried deep within the 2400 posts of this thread? Or should I just forget about having fun and go back to cataloguing leaderheads?

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by pdescobar
Am I correct in assuming, then, that the civilopedia is still very much a work in progress?

Yes, you are. We have had some bad luck in getting people to work on thsi cinsistently, but there's hope now that it will finally be done.

Additionally, I am confused by inconsistencies such as the scenario description, which calls itself "Double Your Pleasure with GFX - v. 1.03x" (even though it was installed from "Full_DyP_PtW_1.04x.zip"). It then tells me to "See the DypReadme.txt in the Double Your Pleasure folder for more info. " and lists "Double Your Pleasure" in the search path, but I only have a DyP Folder, so I become worried that I'm missing things...

Oops. That's for Isak to deal with

In summary, this mod looks great. It has all this cool new stuff that I'm dying to see in action, but the documentation is screwing with me so badly that simply sitting here banging my head against the desk is starting to look like far more fun...

Any advice or suggestions? Is there a Tutorial Game or an Idiot's Guide to DyP buried deep within the 2400 posts of this thread? Or should I just forget about having fun and go back to cataloguing leaderheads?

Don't Give Up
You'll get the hang of it soon enough.
Also, check this forum - it has tome tips. There could be more, though.

 

[Kal-el]

once we get a stable mod in place I think we can expect to see more strategy type documentation become available.

 

[bshirt]

That would be great....

Still though, there ain't nothing like the DYP mod!

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by RobO
Don't Give Up
You'll get the hang of it soon enough.
Also, check this forum - it has tome tips. There could be more, though.

Thanks. I've started a new game since I had gone a good while in the first game with a none-growing size 2 capital before I realized they could build clans which only cost 1 pop point. I'm determined to plod through this time, with or without documentation I'm on a break right now because I'm unable to sell off my granaries (right clicking on them results in an invalid page fault and necessitates reboot) but I'm 99% sure that's Firaxis punishing me for upgrading to 1.21

BTW, regarding the post by Donegal: If you have reached the point in the game where embassies are available, simply investigate an AI city and you will be able to see his allocation percentages for tax/research/luxuries

 

[pdescobar]

Originally posted by pdescobar (Yes, me! I'm talking to myself!)
I'm on a break right now because I'm unable to sell off my granaries (right clicking on them results in an invalid page fault and necessitates reboot) but I'm 99% sure that's Firaxis punishing me for upgrading to 1.21

This is why I left that 1% I now believe that the problem is not (at least primarily ) the patch's fault. Rather, the problem is that the civilopedia.txt lacks a "Maintenance" Game concept (there's a GCON_Maintenance12 and GCON_Maintenance36 -- or similar -- but no GCON_Maintenance) Because this is gone, when you right-click on a building requiring maintenance, the game crashes. Adding a GCON_Maintenance makes it happy again and the right-click displays a menu and allows me to sell off my granaries like a good little program.

I would guess that this applies to any of the right-click menu options which launch a civilopedia in that there must be a GCON for culture, happy faces, etc (I don't recall them all offhand.) And I wouldn't be surprised if a missing building entry caused a crash if you right-click that specific building, but that's all speculation. The only thing I know for sure is that the lack of a generic GCON_Maintenance in the civilopedia playing dyp-1.04x-with-gfx under PTW 1.21f will cause an invalid page fault if you right-click on a granary, barracks, or palace. And the fix is to edit the dyp civilopedia.txt and add one.

 

[Kal-el]

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Gelvan]

Firstly I have to thank you for this mod, it’s so wonderful, that many choices, that many units..! Plain and simple: you are great!

Here are some things I’ve noticed and changed (V0.91r):

140x140 map with DyP-Resources:
1. There were no Elephants. Added some in India and South Africa.
2. No Silk. Added some in China and West India.
3. No Incense. Added some in Israel (2), Tibet, Kashmir and Saudi Arabia.

I’m not sure if I did something wrong, but on my map they appeared not. I suppose it's a problem with the DyP-Bic- file not with the map file. Maybe you've put these ressources on fields where they can't appear in the DyP-bic.

4. Added Horses to the Camarque (near Marseilles). This Region is famous for them.
5. England became 1 Plains more in the south west.
6. Italy became 2-3 Plains more in the south, makes it look like a “boot”.

Furthermore I’ve added plenty of Barbarians in Asia, Africa and South America. Even though, it doesn’t prevent the AI from expanding there. Maybe changing most of northern Russia to a forest could help (remember civ 1 world map?). An other idea is to create strong barbarian defenders (Longbowman) to make it harder to push them away.

I replaced the American Civ with Spain.


Regarding Bombardement in Ancient Times

First I have to say, that this is mostly a question of how you see Archers. In my humble opinion, in Civilization, they are a supporting defense unit. Thanks to the game mechanics, they give a huge advantage for a defender, therefore, their stats shouldn’t be to high. Thus said, my suggestions of course only are an opinion.

Archer 0/1/1 (1/1/1) Cost 10 –1 HP
Bowman 2/2/1 (2/1/1) Cost 20 +/- 0 HP
Longbowman 2/3/1 (3/1/1) Cost 50 +/- 0 HP
Crossbowman 3/2/1 (3/1/1) Cost 40 +/- 0 HP
Arquebusier 3/6/1 (4/1/1) Cost 60 +/- 0 HP

Horse Archer 3/1/2 (1/1/1) Cost 40 +/- 0 HP
War Chariot 3/1/2 (2/1/1) Cost 30 +/- 0 HP
Chariot Archer 2/1/2 (1/1/1) Cost 30 –1 HP
Elephant Archer 3/2/2 (3/1/1) Cost 60 +2 HP

Even though the above could be discussed, I think 2/4/1 (6/1/1) for the Longbowman is too good. They should be significantly weaker than a Pikeman, and they shouldn’t be stronger in Bombardment than the Saltpeter Units. Furthermore I thought the crossbowman to be rather useless.

Camels! Knights and Crusaders

I made a Camel Rider unit (available with Stirrup), which is available to the Egypt, Persian and Babylonian instead of a knight. I made the Camel Rider cheaper, faster and gave it therefore only 2 defense. The Indian have their War Elephants, Chinese their Rider.
I’ve made the Crusader available only to the European, therefore the Eastern Knight unit (available with Chivalry) would be it’s equivalent for China, India, Persia, Egypt and Babylon.
Stats for both are the same – or different, that’s up to you.

Ressources

I’ve read, that it is not possible to add more than a given number of different ressources, and of course DyP shall be played not only on Earth but also on random maps, so I suppose it’s not possible to add more ressources (like papyrus, bronze, etc.).
But maybe you could make an “Earth only” version where it’s possible to seed them manually, and therefore have more of them.

One other suggestion: I’ve read you had to remove the slave ressources due to that problem of an upper limit, because of the random seed. Well, why not just use Camels for the Pyramids, Dye for Leonardo’s Workshop and Sistine Chapel, Incense for Religious, Spices for Indian Wonders of the World. Olive Oil for Bazars etc. – I played it with these changes, and it made trading quite interesting.

Units

In Zulus 800+ units32.pcx there is a section “DyP-Units”, where I found more pics than there were in Version 0.91 – well, maybe I just made something wrong. However using Zulu’s file makes it much easier to mod. I’d suggest to use this file for version 1.0 – one more MB doesn’t count that much. And it really helps to add new units.

Civilopedia

Well...

Conclusion

This mod is very good. The Units are thorougly balanced and the only unit I’ve never built was the Troubadour (sounds) and the Crossbowman (Longbowman is better?) Every other unit was needed to defend against the AI, which had no problems with the changes (or at least it doesn’t seem as if it had). That’s truely an astoundish peace of work you’ve made there, needless to say, that all the new graphics for the civilopedia, the units, etc. were breath-taking as well.


Accelerated Startup

I like to play on Earth, and I hate when French gets killed 3450BC. Therefore I made a.. let’s call it scenario, where everyone has 3 cities from the beginning, or two cities and one tribe. Clan and Shaman ain’t available from the beginning but together with Caste System (which now needs "9" science rows). and they cost 3 pop’s. This worked really good, everyone was still alive in 1040 AD, England and Japan were quite strong. The only “problem” was China and Egypt. Egypt because they conquered Africa and were leading. China because they did the same with Asia, before they emerged Egypt and shortly had Africa as well. Aside of that, Europe looks quite shattered and the rest of the world is up to colonization.

 

[Isak]

Patch 1.05x has been released - it only has minor changes:

Fixed: Compatibility issues with Firaxis Patch 1.21f
Removed: Merchant and Freight units

Thanks to pdescobar for figuring out the cause of the right-click error before I even got a chance to see the bug in action


And thanks Gelvan for a lot of good suggestions - I'm sure when Kal-El gets some more time on his hands he will review especially the Map suggestions - he is a bit busy right now, though, so please have patience with him

About Zulu's units, I have already cleaned up the units_32.pcx for the regular release (that file will go into the 1.00 version which is soon to come), and for the PtW version, I'll do the same, though for PtW the incentive to have just one file doesn't really make as much sense, but it makes it easier for me to control in the future, so what the hey!

Also we now seem to have no fewer than 4 (yes, Four) people working on the Sillyvopedia, and none of them are me, so I have high hopes for the next version of the Sillyvopedia.

If you get a scenarion worked out to your own liking, why not post it on our forum and let some of the testers there try it out and help you test it - we will definitely be looking for DyP scenarios and maps once version 1.00 (regular) and 1.10x (PtW) have been released.

 

[CivAgamemnon]

Speaking of the Sillyopedia, please report any bugs you find here. That helps us so much. I expect to have a better sillyopedia update within a month (one of our members is on a 3 week vacation and I'm traveling extensively Wed-Sun).

 

[gorilladf]

Ummm...holy S&!T!

I was an avid player when civ3 1st came out. I followed the LWC mod closely. Sadly it took too long and remained unfinished. I never lost interest in civ3 (Who could?) But it has been a LONG time.

ANywho I came back, only to find LWC dropped. Browsed around and found this......NICE!!! Can't wait to try it. But maybe I should?

How far away (estimate, I know) is v1.0?

Is this mod a scenario, or changes civ3 right off the bat?

This is exactly what I was looking for!

 

[Isak]

Hi Gorilladf

I loved the LWC mod too originally (and for Call To Power where it was also being developed - don't remember if it was CTP 1 or 2 though).

This is a full scale mod, which will change your Civ3 install (I'm assuming you don't have PtW), but it's worth a try IMHO

If you join the Beta Testers in our forum, you'll be playing v. 1.0 this weekend, unless I trip over a large bus and get hit by a comet at the same time