Dr kossin #37

[Stochastic]

What is with the concern about Iron? Shouldn't the northern city manage to steal Rangar's Iron before steel comes along? EXP+CRE will make whipping out a granary and library really fast and then the surrounding terrain suggests that you may as well keep whipping (eg theater as you are going for GT). I know that lacking iron will make counter attacks a challenge, but with defensive collateral, HAs should be able to mop anything up in your territory.

 

[Shurdus]

One question. You seem to trade around a lot, and that is really something that you should do too. But I was always wondering, how do you evaluate what deals to make or not? How do you decide that it is time to pull the trigger on a trade? What techs do you aim to get in a trade? For example you got calendar in a trade where it served no obvious purpose at that point. Was this a matter of grabbing anything you could get for a non-monopoly tech before some one else made that trade with the AI, or was it more than that?

Anyway, good playing. Grabbing something tasty from liberalism should be doable from here - although I am not that experienced on the deity liberalism race. Go get em!

 

[kossin]

What is with the concern about Iron? Shouldn't the northern city manage to steal Rangar's Iron before steel comes along? EXP+CRE will make whipping out a granary and library really fast and then the surrounding terrain suggests that you may as well keep whipping (eg theater as you are going for GT). I know that lacking iron will make counter attacks a challenge, but with defensive collateral, HAs should be able to mop anything up in your territory.

Cuirassiers and Cannons require Iron... whatever path I choose for medieval war, it would kinda help to have Iron.

Ragnar's culture has been sitting on that Iron for a long time, I really don't think I can steal it away from him.

HAs? The Medieval era is coming to an end very soon.

One question. You seem to trade around a lot, and that is really something that you should do too. But I was always wondering, how do you evaluate what deals to make or not? How do you decide that it is time to pull the trigger on a trade? What techs do you aim to get in a trade? For example you got calendar in a trade where it served no obvious purpose at that point. Was this a matter of grabbing anything you could get for a non-monopoly tech before some one else made that trade with the AI, or was it more than that?

Anyway, good playing. Grabbing something tasty from liberalism should be doable from here - although I am not that experienced on the deity liberalism race. Go get em!

Calendar: it had 2 uses. First I have a silk resource and second I could trade it to Toku for some gold.

I keep monopolies as long as I can. When I see a good trade available (for example the gold from Peter) I don't hesitate long before taking it. Otherwise it's mostly on a need basis. I don't need Feudalism at this point so I'm not trading for it.

Just keep in mind that if you don't trade, you'll probably lose the opportunity as other AIs get the tech.

 

[georgjorge]

Why not Slavery much earlier? In a situation where you needed to get out Settlers and Workers as fast as possible to secure land, I would have thought that some whipping was very necessary...

 

[kossin]

I dunno, to be honest

I make mistakes all the time... perhaps I could have sealed off the west with Slavery.

EDIT: I thought I'd have enough time to settle the north so the goal was to avoid 1 turn of Anarchy. Obviously it didn't work out so well.

 

[LuCiver]

Well played, as usual Kossin!

Why no pillagers sent to Hammy's world during your false war? I would be hanging back, ready to pillage the bejeezus out of those cottages as soon as a city is taken. Or ready to snipe a city after someone's almost-successful assault.

 

[kossin]

Round 6

To answer a question: I didn't send any pillagers to war because:
1) I didn't want to lose risking them which would in turn...
2) cost me more to pay for peace
3) it's cheesy to pillage right after a city capture
4) I'm selling my horses away to Mehmed for his Ivory and 1-move units would take too long
5) no cities exchanged hands

This is another boring turnset... grow grow grow, whip whip, mass specs... you get the drill.

I didn't take screenshots from every trade I did but basically... look at F4 screen every turn, when you see something someone doesn't have, try to trade for it and then trade it to the other party. I call it the Mansa Mantra.

I acquired Metal Casting from Mehmed and started on Forges where it mattered. It was also a good tech to broker around.

Surprisingly, Tokugawa built the AP under Buddhism. I spread the religion a bit in my cities but I still need to work on that quite a bit.

Here are some of the trades that were made:

Spoiler :

As usual, I kept my monopoly techs for as long as I could.

Eventually I took peace with Hammurabi for 60 gold. This allowed me to get foreign trade routes from Bismarck which are much more valuable than 60 gold.

I farmed another Great Scientist. Since I didn't bulb anything this game, I didn't change that now. He was kept for a while (allow some cities to grow more for better benefit) and triggered a Golden Age...

Spoiler :

Caste+Pacifism would follow of course.

Spoiler :

While it sucks a bit to take a citizen off a cottage, it's either that or waiting longer for the second GP. This way I get 2 GPs during the course of the GA. Both Merchants... oh I love swimming in gold.

On the last turn of the Golden Age, a casual shift to production is made.

Spoiler :

Unfortunately Organized Religion isn't useful everywhere but I'll try fixing that next round.

Once Peter got his hands on Paper, I traded it. Unfortunately the non-Buddhist block either hates me too much for trading now or thinks I'm becoming too advanced. Still Friendly Peter+Ragnar make for good trade partners. I'm leaving Tokugawa in the dark so he'll be an easier target.

Spoiler :

Once my merchants made it to the ToA city, I used one for the trade mission. The other will wait hoping to get more gold later on. (after all, there's little difference between 2000 and 4000 gold when its only use is deficit research short-time).

Spoiler :

The third Merchant is on his way. Third? Yea... I got the Economics Merchant as well

As Universities were done across the empire, I set out to build Oxford. You can whip and should whip the capital... each pop is worth a lot of hammers. Here whipping is worth ~200 more beakers and I lose... nothing actually.

Spoiler :

Economics was finished on t149 so I revolted to Free Market and ended the round on the 25th turn of the set.

F1 screen

Spoiler :

The capital... still over 50% of my beakers.

Spoiler :

Techs - one of my better games. Although the AI is pretty slow here for Deity.

Spoiler :

Diplo

Spoiler :

I don't have much more to add on this round. Peter is gearing up for war against one of the non-Buddhists. I'm probably going to war with Cavalry as Liberalism>Rifling looks doable (but maybe I won't be able to do it, we'll see - all depends on Peter and Ragnar. I have the highest GNP at the moment so I think it's a good possibility).

Feel free to ask for clarifications if you'd like some.

 

[lymond]

Hey Kos -

In an earlier round you brought up a point about trading with worst enemies (WEs) of rival civs and reducing risk of the "trade with WE" demerit. I've noticed at times when trading in this scenario that sometimes I don't get hit with that demerit, but have never understand why or the mechanics behind it.

Certainly gifting would probably not be wise, but how do you gauge whether a trade is truly balanced in this regard. It sounds like you can trade with WEs of others without penalty as long as you do it right. I just don't understand exactly how.

 

[stopstopp]

If not rifling, then what for your liberalism tech?

 

[vranasm]

I have some unrelated question to the game, but to the mods you use. I thought you wrote you use BUG mod in CustomAssets (singleplayer), I am running the same, but I dont have in Foreign Advisor -> Glance numbers as you have, but only pictures of faces.
I think I did saw it in BUFFY mod. So how you did it?

 

[ahcos]

If not rifling, then what for your liberalism tech?

steam power! haha

that's some nice teching, certainly helped that so many crazy freaks are in your game after all :X

 

[kossin]

Hey Kos -

In an earlier round you brought up a point about trading with worst enemies (WEs) of rival civs and reducing risk of the "trade with WE" demerit. I've noticed at times when trading in this scenario that sometimes I don't get hit with that demerit, but have never understand why or the mechanics behind it.

Certainly gifting would probably not be wise, but how do you gauge whether a trade is truly balanced in this regard. It sounds like you can trade with WEs of others without penalty as long as you do it right. I just don't understand exactly how.

Here you go, courtesy of bestsss.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8697068 - starts on this post and there's a bit of discussion at the top of the next page as well.

If not rifling, then what for your liberalism tech?

Something smaller (Replaceable Parts) in the direction of Rifling. No point delaying Lib to take something bigger, the goal is expansion via war now.

I have some unrelated question to the game, but to the mods you use. I thought you wrote you use BUG mod in CustomAssets (singleplayer), I am running the same, but I dont have in Foreign Advisor -> Glance numbers as you have, but only pictures of faces.
I think I did saw it in BUFFY mod. So how you did it?

Go into BUG+BULL options (bug button or ctrl-alt-o), select the Advisors tab and look for F4 (Foreign advisor) in the first column. The first option is 'Glance Tab' and there's a box to the right of it saying 'Smilies' -> change it to 'Both'

steam power! haha

that's some nice teching, certainly helped that so many crazy freaks are in your game after all :X

Well there are some decent techers in the lot (Peter, Hammurabi) but the diplo situation is reducing the trading a lot. And of course the warring civs are slowed considerably.

 

[vranasm]

thanks i will give it a look. I of course tried to find it, but it's very complicated settings dialog

 

[LuCiver]

3) it's cheesy to pillage right after a city capture

Sure, look at Iraq. In RL, there is no post-war looting.

Have you put any research into Lib, or are you just counting on out-teching the first AI to reach Ed? If you are aiming to out-tech, are you using trade offers to monitor AIs progress toward Ed to get a jump on them?

 

[kossin]

Lib is 1 turn from completion (a few hundred beakers).

 

[SillyGoat]

Looks good Kossin.

The only two contenders for Lib are Ragnar (at war) and Peter (who has enough on his hands, he's got close border tension with Mehmed, so I'd expect a Russian/Ottoman war soon).

Neither of the contenders have Guilds yet and the AI likes military techs when it's in war mode. It'll cost you 140 eps to get a look at Peter's research and ~550 to see Ragnars. It might be worth turning research off for two turns after Printing Press is in to see for sure if you can get Rifling.

Techwise, you've got RP queued up after PP instead of gunpowder. If you do have to "punt" on Lib and take a cheaper tech than rifling you'd be better off Libing RP than Gunpowder as it is a more expensive tech. You would also have the option to Lib Chemistry (workshop buff and excellent trade bait).
Or am I missing something?

Iron: You are at 43% on the tile to Ragnar's 56% and he hasn't had a second border pop in his iron city yet. Fish 'n Beaver is at 94/100 culture. You can pop your borders next turn by building culture for 1 turn in the city. It looks like you will have iron soon, at the cost of some close border tensions with Ragnar (you don't have any yet, the AI doesn't seem to get as upset about close borders if it is winning the cultural battle )

(as always, the above is IMHO and YMMV )

 

[kossin]

Oh no, RP isn't queued per say. I highlighted it in the tech screen to show how many turns of research are required. I'm definitely going to do PP>GP here. Chemistry or RP from Lib of course if I can't catch Rifling.

Currently neither Peter or Ragnar is researching Education (just look at what they're offering for the tech) so I see no need to 'waste' time with the EP slider. However I might use it during the course of the war.

A Russian-Ottoman war would be greatly appreciated as it might allow me to strike Peter instead. In any case, I'll try getting a few wars going with my victims before launching my attack.

Iron: I ran an artist in the city during the Golden Age so I was gaining on the tile. I don't know how close/far Ragnar is from the 2nd culture pop but I'll have to wait 2 turns as I don't have Music or Drama.

Not sure if I'll go for full assimilation here or take the best cities+vassal. Peter would be a great vassal I think... Mehmed and Toku not so great however.

We'll see in the next 2 sets I guess.

 

[SillyGoat]

Oh no, RP isn't queued per say. I highlighted it in the tech screen to show how many turns of research are required. I'm definitely going to do PP>GP here. Chemistry or RP from Lib of course if I can't catch Rifling.

Currently neither Peter or Ragnar is researching Education (just look at what they're offering for the tech) so I see no need to 'waste' time with the EP slider. However I might use it during the course of the war.

Yeah, I just checked. Looks like they aren't going after Guilds either.

Iron: I ran an artist in the city during the Golden Age so I was gaining on the tile. I don't know how close/far Ragnar is from the 2nd culture pop but I'll have to wait 2 turns as I don't have Music or Drama.

Oops. I missed the fact you don't have Music.

We'll see in the next 2 sets I guess.

I'm looking forward to them.

 

[JammerUno]

Toku always makes for the best midgame neighbour, low tech, no friends.

What's the reasoning behind no lit, no NE in 800 AD? I couldn't fathom a reason for this, since you've only generated 5 GP with very foodrich land.

 

[kossin]

Waiting for a better NE spot. Either from Toku or Mehmed