Druid03- The ninjas

druidravi · May 5, 2007

I thought I covered all loop holes by saying we can't use US till we discover democracy. Forgot to cover mass warrior > axe upgrade ala civ3 , warrior> sword upgrade :lol:

. Ok new rule we can't upgrade any unit with less than 5 exp or which has not seen combat . We're getting the 100k. After taking over continent it would be a steady stream of our ninjas ala spies on invisible sub's to the other continent.

With our brand bombers we don't need Great Wall . Any baba unit reduced to half hp can be killed by our axe/sper/archer /chariot. Babas are just experience pots. Select 1 city for heroic epic and cottage every other city. Use capital as GP farm > wall street . Later 1 coastal production city for iron works. No more military production we require. Mass something like 5-10 axes/chariots bomb down enemy city defence to 0% and bombard units inside to 1/2 hp take over city , re base sleath bombers to captured city rinse and repeat .

Make first GG a medic 3 chariot as healing slows our city taking spree down more than combat odds/ instructer's higher experienced units . Chop out all forests for axes . With our huge food in capital we can mass workers > mass chop forests which anyways would be replaced by cottages. No need of barracks in new cities. Just chop axes directly . Only capital and or heroic epic city need barracks.

ungy · May 5, 2007

druidravi said:
With our brand bombers we don't need Great Wall . Any baba unit reduced to half hp can be killed by our axe/sper/archer /chariot. Babas are just experience pots.

Yes babas can be killed like that but that takes bombers and units away from the main fight. Especially if we hook up the stone, the GW is really better value and then we can just ignore that area until we're ready. I won't build it w/o consensus but I think it is worth it. We can always go whack some for XP if we want to--it would just be good I think to be able to use all our bombers. Sounds to me like this strategy takes 1 SB to scout/FB, and one plus some units to keep the remainder under control. Given how many units the AI will have for defense I think better build the GW and use all 6 to pound.

Don't underestimate the value of the single GE point--since it comes so early there really is a decent chance of popping a GE which depending on when it comes could give us the pyr, GL, or boost for SL.

By the way, my prediction is that our spot is too big and we win this easily.

ungy · May 5, 2007

druidravi said:
I thought I covered all loop holes buy saying we can't use US till we discover democracy. Forgot to cover mass warrior > axe upgrade ala civ3 , warrior> sword upgrade

Seems contrary to the spirit of things to build obsolete units--I would vote no building warriors anymore period.

ungy · May 5, 2007

By the way, we're doing some kind of odd improvements. Kyoto working 2 tiles due to unhappy, workers building 5th cottage but 2 unmined hills (one of them being worked). At this stage of the game with our food bonuses mined hills are important and I will correct that.
Also it is inefficient to whip repeatedly--20 extra unhappy turns not worth it except in emergencies.

pigswill · May 5, 2007

To keep things limited can't build obselete units at all (once they become obselete). Upgrading existing units is not an obscure practice (tho its unusual having money for mass upgrades). Lvl3 as minimum upgrade qualification sounds reasonable for future reference.

I've already posted in favour of GW. Its fairly easily available and will allow us to focus attention on the AI rather than spending every turn scouring the map in case barbs are pillaging.

Edit: I was aiming to keep the forests for chopping wonders (hopefully with some kind of production bonus) and was thus using whip to speed unit production. I'm still a mid-level player and have a lot to learn about micro-management particularly at higher difficulty levels.

druidravi · May 5, 2007

Ok go to great wall if it doesn't require much turning of focus from conquering our continent. By the way we need not bombard cities every turn . Use Bombers on babas on most turns and just the turn city is being taken concentrate on bombing cities. BTW since I have played the first turnset and don't know the current situation , how scary the babas are now my vote is for the player playing this turnset to decide on the great wall . Good luck. Since we are mostly CE mass whipping is discouraged .

@ frankcor: If any one keeps on stop growing its better he/she mentions in game report. And this being an Sg and 10 turns set I expect everyone to check all cities once a while.

ungy · May 5, 2007

OK--I'm up. I'll try and play tonight but may not happen. I'll go towards GW--obviously not far on a 10 turn set.

ungy · May 5, 2007

pigswill said:
Edit: I was aiming to keep the forests for chopping wonders (hopefully with some kind of production bonus) and was thus using whip to speed unit production. I'm still a mid-level player and have a lot to learn about micro-management particularly at higher difficulty levels.

Nothing wrong with using the whip, especially as we have a rather unusual food bonus in cap. However, to overwhip is inefficient, as instead of losing 1 pop cap for 10 turns we lose it for 10+turns remaining of unhappy. You can check when looking at whipping--if it says 1 unhappy for 12 turns for example then we have 2 turns of whip unhappy remaining. 1 whip gives 30 prod. per pop. What you want to do is whip a unit so that it uses two pop--hence giving you 60 prod for 1 unhappy. However, you get penalized for whipping if you have no hammers invested so it can take some MM to get it right. This is ideally done every 10 turns (although I can rarely manage that). What you don't want to do is whip one pop when you already have substantial whip unhappy as then you are paying a lot for 30 hammers in lost production over time. Since we have 6 extra pop, Kyoto should be working mined hills which normally are compromised due to their lack of food but here are our best squares.

druidravi · May 5, 2007

Anyways don't lose sight of oracle slingshot to monarchy . Lots of warriors in capital can allow it to grow to size 20+

ungy · May 6, 2007

OK- here we go.
2200 inherited turn. Switch Kyoto to max prod--trade 2c for 2h.

2160 sabotage near Uppsala.

2120 random bombing.

2080 same

AH in --mas (almost completed)

2040. Wang Kon is about to hook up horse. We bomb pasture.

Kill Egyptian WB. Remember it is better to pillage so wait to do that.

2000 masonry in--research poly. Pillage Chinese fishing boat--not sure if that is correct.

1960 send 3 axe toward Wonsan. Bomb pasture again. Egypt building stonehenge in Memphis. I guess that's OK

1920 Kyoto Axe-GW. Koreans build WB I let it go. That will be ours soon enough.

1880 Shanghai is building GW. Judiasm FIDL. Capture Wonsan.

1840 heal up.

1800 Kill Viking galley. Pillage Egyptian WB. Fog bust. Sabotage mine near Shanghai. Leave rest of turn.
Note: decided to leave horse near Seoul--I think it will be ours soon enough but can always be bombed if not sure

ungy · May 6, 2007

save is here:

druidravi · May 6, 2007

A got-it post. Will play today and post.

ungy · May 7, 2007

only really important thing to do is Shanghai is building GW and will beat us w/o sabotage of some sort. I was planning to take out the other mine and then pop in for a look. Also planning to whip when we get close.

druidravi · May 10, 2007

Will play and post today

druidravi · May 10, 2007

Took out capital of wang kong and another city. Now he is reduced to a 1 pop occ. Built Great wall and started on oracle ragnar, Hatty ,monty ,stalin , quin get pillaged a lot . 5000 more gold added to treasury. Lots of fishing boats pillaged. Continue working mines in capital till oracle is over take monarchy and let capital grow to size 20 with cheap warriors. Don't research hunting otherwise we can't build warriors anymore. Connect up the horses and use chariots to take over continent. Once oracle over whenever capital is growing build warrior at hapiness limits build workers. Cottage spam every city . pre chop one of the cities for GL with high food . A few chariots and more axes will be enough to take over whole continent.

Ragnar's gold mine

Monty's rice

Ragnar's fishing boats

Spoiler :

frankcor · May 10, 2007

Nice work, druid! I'll pick up and play in about 4 hours from now. I haven't looked at the saves in a while but I recall that Wang's capital had lots of food (3 seafood resources) and could well be the right place for the Great Library assuming there are sufficient trees around.

frankcor · May 11, 2007

I took a look at the military situation to develop some kind of plan:

Pyongyang was like the bulls eye on a target. Our army--uh ... exactly 4 Axemen more than what we need to keep one in each city--was scattered out north east of Pyongyang. All of them were wounded.

I know we dont need a huge army but I wanted a few more Axes so we can keep 2 in each city on the front. To keep that front as short as possible, thereby, reducing the requirement for defensive/counterattack units, it made sense to keep the front on an east-west axis and drive it southward until we sweep the continent at its southern tip. To get an east-west axis, wed need to take St. Petersburg and Pusan. At that point, we can take a look at where any new cities pop up and decide which way to proceed from there.

So kewl, I had a plan.

I should probably remind everyone that I opposed building the Great Wall because it would seal off the northern tundra and prevent all those barbs from harassing our rivals. Well, I was wrong. While my concern is valid, by sealing off the tundra, we can give the Barbarians time to build 1 or 2 additional cities up north (theres 1 there already) and improve the terrain. Building the Great Wall also eliminated the need for any garrisons in our core cities beyond any warriors needed to raise the happiness cap. I think it was a very smart move.

I suggest that--until we eliminate the AI rivals--we bypass any barbarian cities and avoid bombing barbarian assets unless our units are threatened. Then we can take over operation of those cities from ... err ... shall we call them our sub-contractors?

After Writing came in, I selected Iron Working. Pyongyang has a lot of jungle to be cleared.

That same turn, we got Wangs Gem mine operational adding 1 happiness, buying us a few turns to train some happiness Warriors.

Espionage: Egypt building Pyramids in Heliopolis; 43 turns at 1320BC.

The other Civs researched:
China: Sailing, Horseback Riding
Egypt: Iron Working, ?
Vikings: Pottery, Monarchy
Russia: Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood
Aztecs: Sailing, ?

Sabotage: Aztecs were building Oracle in Tlatelolco with 5 turns left while Kyoto still had 12 turns for 386 gold. Two turns later, Tlatelolco had 6 turns left on its second build of Oracle while Kyoto had 7. Unfortunately, our Spy was captured in a bungled attempt at sabotaging the production again. :mad:

Our Spy in Egypt also got captured. :mad:

With the entire continent in range of our Stealth Bombers, our Spies in China and Russia were only snooping on cities so I sent them to replace their lost sisters.

We popped a Great General. I used him to promote our Medic II Axeman to a super-medic:

I deviated a bit from the plan:

I formed another mini-stack of Axemen and took a Chinese city in the middle there.

Im going to suggest we dont put Submarines to sleep or on guard. I found several sleeping at the start of my turn-set but I didnt see that we had one sleeping outside of Seoul until my final turn. I sent him south to replace the one in China that is transporting our spy to visit Monty. That one can start patrolling the west and north coast of Montys continent.

Next, our Western force can finish off Russia then join up with the Eastern force to finish off China. It wont take very long.

Spoiler Ruffs Log :

By my count, we won 18 combats out of 18. Nice kill ratio.

Here's The Save: druid_BC-1000.CivWarlordsSave Have fun!

ungy · May 11, 2007

Nice going!

To be honest, I think the spot was too large. I think we'll win easily.

With 100K we can settler spam, cottage spam, and run 100% research.
We'll be miles ahead of deity especially with our subs whacking their navies and pillaging all their nets. Then we can invade with modern units and crush them easily.

frankcor · May 11, 2007

I forgot to mention:

- One of the workers outside of Seoul is pre-chopping a forest in preparation for building the Great Library there. Keep an eye on him and stop him with 1 turn left. There are 2 other workers there roading the forests and can start pre-chopping more. I wouldn't chop any of those forests completely except for the grassland hill to build a mine and boost the Library production. Seoul had suffered from so much unhappiness, it couldn't grow at size 2 and spent most of my turnset simply working on a fishing boat. It's growing now and as soon as the boat is complete and the borders pop, it can start growing a lot faster. I suggest it start on a Library followed by GL.

- There is a Barbarian Axeman between Wonson and Seoul. I've left him alone hoping he can make his way to cause trouble for Chiha. Wonson's borders are due to expand next turn and I think he'll be trapped there. But depending on how the game moves him when the border expands, he could be in position to pillage the roads that connect Seoul and it's Gem Mine to the rest of the empire. Keep an eye on him -- he may have to be killed. There are several more barbarians trailing behind him but they'll be blocked from advancing south when Wonson's borders expand.

- I marked a sign for a potential city site west of Kyoto that would give us a good production city on our northwestern coast. We're going to need some good cities for building a navy. Six submarines can't possibly sink 3 or 4 stacks of Frigates and Galleons if they all come at us simultaneously.

- I noticed something disturbing last night. A Submarine was parked outside of Bejing. When a Chinese Galley left the port, it entered the same tile as our sub. Instead of sinking the Galley, the sub got repositioned 2 tiles away, outside China's cultural border and the Galley proceeded on to the next tile. Am I correct in assuming that our subs cannot be used to escort Galleons because AI vessels don't trigger combat with a sub when entering the sub's tile?

pigswill · May 13, 2007

Looks like I'm UP. However I'm working overtime at present which cuts into my civ time but should be able to play sometime in the next couple of days. I'll post a got it once I've got time to get it.

Druid03- The ninjas

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