FRANCE,to powerful?and what about the turks

[jojorah]

It has come to my attention that france has an s unfair advantage. Who can argue that there sp is just a little better compared to other civs. I also know that maney people feel like france is there best choice from my experience in multiplayer.but Farther more i have not seen a single person play as turkey, whicth i think historicaly acheived more than france. (note: this is just my opinion dont get mad I think the french are an awesome civ). Also see frances special units there better than maney units in that time period. Basicly i think Frances special power/units needs to be downgraded, and turkeys improved. So heres my ideas


France: power, in the beggening of the game city states are half way to friendly. unitss/buildings: French cathrdrel, adds 6 culture along with 2 happiness : unit is the french musketeer just like in the game.

Turkey: units attacking a turkish city get a 1 third more damage than ordinary. : building: Madrassa, provides 3 culture along with three science a turn; unit/ janasary,only a little weaker than the ones already in the game.

Please make your own sp and un for these two civ imparticular, or any civ, make sure the special power, unit or building is somwhat historicly accurate

 

[Martin Alvito]

France is very good, but they aren't the best civ in the game. Siam currently holds that distinction. Great UA, great UU, absurdly OP UB.

France suffers from a couple problems. The ability to upgrade past unit types for dirt cheap means that players rather rarely build state-of-the-art unit types from scratch. That hurts the Musketeer, which is a solid unit in its own right but not a unit that you're going to build a ton of.

Worse, the Foreign Legion is a late UU and suffers from the classic late UU problem of frequently arriving on the scene after the game is already decided.

Finally, their UA is going to be weaker in post-patch games with default settings (ruins on) since the likelihood of hitting a Culture ruin and thus getting a big early Culture boost is pretty high. If you turn the ruins off, their UA starts looking pretty attractive and they are probably getting a sizable buff.

In short, they are a strong civ that is well worth the selection, but they are not so strong that they need to be pulled back into line with other civs.

As for the poor Ottomans, they simply need a substantial rework. They have great UUs, but they have to be built from scratch, which means that they take a lot longer to have an impact than comparable UUs along an upgrade path. Their UA is, of course, pretty bad.

 

[blac]

I can see why people think their UA is really bad, I've had some cases where it was awesome. I got a fleet of around 10 ships and it allowed me to blockade the enemy and damage most of their units to the point where I could beat them with one battle. It helped a lot with coastal attacks. I can see how it would be useless if you didn't get the proper start though

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I can see why people think their UA is really bad, I've had some cases where it was awesome. I got a fleet of around 10 ships and it allowed me to blockade the enemy and damage most of their units to the point where I could beat them with one battle. It helped a lot with coastal attacks. I can see how it would be useless if you didn't get the proper start though

It probably should be improved to include non barbarian ships.... that are killed
ie Every time they move next to a barb ship OR kill a Military ship, they have a chance of capturing it and getting 25 gold.

 

[MadDjinn]

It has come to my attention that france has an s unfair advantage. Who can argue that there sp is just a little better compared to other civs. I also know that maney people feel like france is there best choice from my experience in multiplayer.but Farther more i have not seen a single person play as turkey, whicth i think historicaly acheived more than france. (note: this is just my opinion dont get mad I think the french are an awesome civ). Also see frances special units there better than maney units in that time period. Basicly i think Frances special power/units needs to be downgraded, and turkeys improved. So heres my ideas

Wow. you watch everyone?

Frances UA is nice, pretty decent early-mid game for getting policies, but post-patch won't be as strong due to everyone getting a big culture boost early. On pangea/larger landmasses they do great to pick up the tiles culturally, which is ok.

Musketmen are strong, as already stated, but have nothing that will stick around for an upgrade. The foreign legions come really late, as already explained, but can at least be bought/upgraded to mech infantry, so are nice. (see my youtube game for that)

Turkey... is not in the game. The Ottomans, however, are definitely there.

I would not play the Ottomans on large landmass maps generally because that means their UA is useless. Same for playing the Germans with barbs off. But, play them on small continents/archipelago maps and that UA becomes very nice - free fleet and you don't even have to fight for them; unlike the germans UA.

The Janissary is very strong. It also upgrades, so you can get rifles/etc with those bonuses. Yes, they only exist for a short time if you're rifle rushing, but I'd actually play them slightly different and not rifle rush until I get enough Janissaries for upgrades. As per the Siph.. a UU on a POS base unit is like putting lipstick on a pig... it's still smells bad. (though +1 vis and the ability to mass pillage an AI with only a few units does sound interesting.. but not by much until you've upgraded them to helicopters)


in the end...

Some civs are strong based upon the maps (English on pangea are worse than Ottomans) and some are just 'all around ok' (China/US). Some are better at specific strategies (Greek/Siam for mass CS; Arabs for mass RAs) and others are better at VC types (Egypt OCC/culture, Babylon Tech, etc). It's all partly balanced in the end, depending on the map/how many CSs/barbs/etc etc are there. It's just unfortunate that certain strategies are better than others. (poor Monte with his early UU/UA combo that basically sucks given the patches)

 

[jojorah]

I stand corrected thanks!

 

[vexing]

(poor Monte with his early UU/UA combo that basically sucks given the patches)

don't h8 monte, jaguars are one of the best uus. ua is getting 2x boosted with patch.

 

[MasterMishi]

Most responses refer to singleplayer, eg Siam is best
But in competative multi ruins barbs cs off, where sword rush is dominant, that quicker path to liberty and/ or tradition means France have a few turns on the average opponent and that makes all the difference.

 

[Babri]

don't h8 monte, jaguars are one of the best uus. ua is getting 2x boosted with patch.

Jaguars are something between average & good UU. Jungle bonus is usually not that helpful. Healing bonus is good though.

 

[UrbanX]

I dont think France's UA needs to be changed, its fine as it is. but I have seen ppl play as turkey online. they dont win as them, but still...

 

[TImithius]

I agree that the Ottoman civ is off a little. Their units are pretty good, it is just their special ability that messess things up. With your opinions I dont really agree with you Madrassa idea. The Madrassa was an Arabic school and library. It wasn't used with the Ottomans, it was an Arabic thing. The Ottomans, I think, should keep their units. They just need a better unique ability. If I could change a unit for the Ottomans I would give them a great bombard or an albus gun.

 

[brxbrx]

nous avons maurice chevalier. comment pouvons nous perdre?

hon hon hon!

 

[NukeAJS]

Germany and Ottomans UA needs to be changed, not because they are bad (Germany's is good; Ottoman's is terrible 90% of the time) but because they rely on barbs being turned on. Playing Civ 5 without barbs is, imo, not very fun; but I do like them off in multi-player, just like I did in Civ 4.

As such, they've no utility in mutliplayer games. Also, some people like the play SP with barbs off and ditto -- same deal.

So -- new ideas for France and Ottomans?

Ottomans --

UA -- Unifier of the Caliphate: Every capital city captured (non-CS) gives one free SP.

UB -- Madrassa: Replaces library. +2 culture; +1 scientist slot; +1 science for every two citizens.

UU -- "Ridiculously over-sized cannon" (name to be determined): replaces cannon. Stronger than the regular cannon, increased damage to cities.

Reasoning -- The UA is meant to simulate the eventual acquisition/conquest of the previously Arab caliphates. Each time expansion occurred, the Ottomans became more socially, technologically, and philosophically advanced. The Ottoman's captured many of the world's most famous cities from Algiers to Baghdad. When the Ottomans failed to expand, they failed to adapt to an ever-changing world.

The UB could probably have a more Ottoman name, but I don't feel like digging through the complete history of the Ottoman culture. Anyways, the Ottomans expanded, a lot. Culture on a building like the library supports that. Also, the Ottomans were a clever people, up until the world evolved way faster than they did at least. So a single scientist slot is attached to the library (might be unbalanced, might be easier to boost the library's population to beaker ratio.)

The UU is a homage to the civilization that thought "the bigger, the better". The Ottomans made some massive cannons, even if they were near impossible to reload faster than a snail's pace and wildly inaccurate. Also, Ottomans were arguably the first to use cannons in non-Asia and definitely the first to successfully apply them as siege engines in city-attacks.

As for France, I think they're actually good as is. Their UA is good, but not game busting. Musketeers are awesome, but you can't upgrade to them. And Foreign Legion, while good, are late.

It's very possible to win an entire game as France and never use their UUs, just their UA.

 

[TImithius]

A ridiculously sized cannon is the great bombard, thats what tore down the walls of Constantinople