Guess the New Civs

[GenjiKhan]

Canada might be a good idea,but I think that there's other better civilizations on American continent to represent and there's almost no good scenario where you can insert them,which isn't a problem to other civilizations on American continent .

 

[ehecatzin]

I think Zulu's are a must, hope they are one of the civs. Poland as well, and I'm hoping some native american civs, I would personaly love to see the Anazasi or the Missisipians in North America, and the Mapuche in South America.

Oh and by the way, the art for Pacal is freacking awesome, a bit too Apocalypto, but the clothing shows they did their research, I can only hope they will get Moctezuma right in another Civ, they always make him look like a modern day prehispanic dancer rather than Aztec Emperor.

 

[Polar Bear]

I have criticism of the Inuit's inclusion (essentially, if the Polynesians are just above the threshold, the Inuit are well below it). It's not a knock against them. They show humanity's tremendous ability to adapt and survive in the harshest of conditions. However, those conditions cut precisely against establishing the type of civilization represented in this game.

Nevertheless, I support modding in all sorts of peoples, so I'll go comment on that thread and see if I can give any feedback.

How exactly are the Polynesians above the Inuit? If they are credible enough to be included, than so are the Inuit.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

No Canada is one nation/civilization. Quebec should not have it's own civilization anymore than Texas.

I think you are confused about Canada with your "the English portion" comment. The province of New Brunswick is officially bilingual, also there are many towns and city districts outside of Quebec that are french/bilingual. As well as there are tons of Aboriginal reserves with own respective languages. Aside from most Canadians not feeling that Quebec is separate from the rest of Canada. It's typically the vocal minority that people hear.

Au contraire, Quebec is widely considered in Canada to be culturally distinct - it was even recognized as a nation by the Canadian legislative.

"the English portion" of Canada isn't distinct from America, since it is part of North America. If you meant The United States of America, then it is very distinct. Universal health care, peace keepers, not committing genocide against our first nations peoples, multiculturalism vs melting pot, Canada's whole Government structure is different from the USA (we are part of the British monarchy) and general politeness. USA citizens when traveling around the world have been known to put Canadian flags on their luggage to get better treatment. However it doesn't work as many people in the hospitality industry can easily distinguish a Canadian from someone from the USA.

Those aspects which you mention are mostly superficial - sure, the Canadian government may have different policies, but is the culture distinct enough from the American one? Would Venezuela warrant inclusion if Colombia were already in?

 

[Androrc the Orc]

A small point: go find out how many different cultures actually immigrated to Canada across the years before splitting it into 'english' and 'quebec'.

It's not relevant: they assimilated into the local cultures of the provinces they immigrated to, as immigrants very often have in the Americas.

 

[Louis XXIV]

How exactly are the Polynesians above the Inuit? If they are credible enough to be included, than so are the Inuit.

The Polynesians were responsible for the greatest migration in human history. Their reach spread from Taiwan to Hawaii. They did this through technological innovation that surpassed anything else in the world for the next 1000 years. Some Polynesian Kingdoms (e.g., the Tui-Tonga) formed Empires with tributary states. Others (e.g., Hawaii) formed complex societies with a civil service bureaucracy, hereditary leaders, and state-organized engineering projects. They also had developed an Empire among the Hawaiian peoples.

The Inuit were always isolated with small cities that never progressed into complex societies. They lived in villages that filled a niche where they didn't have to compete against other more complex societies south of them. This led to a mostly subsistence society that did not provide for significant division of labor or stratification of society. In many ways, they are analogous to the Bushmen in Africa not the Polynesians.

 

[j51]

not committing genocide against our first nations peoples, multiculturalism vs melting pot... USA citizens when traveling around the world have been known to put Canadian flags on their luggage to get better treatment. However it doesn't work as many people in the hospitality industry can easily distinguish a Canadian from someone from the USA.

Thanks for the facts from the magical realm of misinformed stereotypes.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please stay on topic of what the new civs may be. Using stereotypes to make points is trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[King William I]

Why don't we look from previous civ games to guess the new civs

missing fom Civ II:

The Sioux (they are highly famous and Civ could use anothe horse-based nation)

The Zulu (because its not right without Shaka)

Missig from Civ III:

Austria (one of greatest renaissance empires, though I'm not sure if thier inclusion in Civ III is accurate, I owned all of that incarnation and didn't see them)

The Hittites (great ancient empire; three-man chariot instead of horse archer would be nice)

Portugal (confirmed as CS; bummer because trading posts that do the same as citedels would be cool)

Sumer (literally the worlds first civilization; nuff said)

Missing from Civ IV:

Ethiopia (Zara Yaqob make a great religious leader)

Holy Roman Empire (considered by many people as the First German Empire, please 2K never again)

Khmer (I don't know enough about this region to be sure, but I think it overlaps with Siam, plus Suryavarman II creeped me out)

Mali (simply impossible due to Songhai)

Native America (I guess they could use various tribes as cities, bt that might step on too many toes)


So taken all the info above, my guesses are:

The Sioux
The Zulu
The Hittites
Sumer

 

[Haig]

I'm guessing:

Zulu
Popular, fan favorite Civ that would also fit well to the Smoky Skies scenario.
Plus Africa might use more Civs.

Poland
Strong Civ fanbase in Poland, I bet they make their debut on Civ V. I'd like to have them.

Sioux
One of the religions in G&K seems to be native american, so maybe we'll get another one besides Iroquis.

Khazars
A surprising one, but been in many topics about Civ wishes. Also had Judaism as religion so could cover that part well. Don't know actually anything about this civilization!

 

[MadDjinn]

It's not relevant: they assimilated into the local cultures of the provinces they immigrated to, as immigrants very often have in the Americas.

no actually, they didn't. It's called 'multi-culturalism' for a reason (unlike the US melting pot plan). And it's hard for 'assimilation' to occur when the population is made up of only immigrants! (see Eastern Euro pop migrating to Saskatchewan/Manitoba, or Scot/Irish/etc migrating to the east coast).

And if you think that the populations of Canada and US are 'basically' the same, then you're rather misinformed. Aside from the primarily Euro immigration/expansion, things are different in our outlooks on the world/etc. And yes, some of those items that were listed by HalfBadger point to cultural differences between the two.

And I don't know where you're getting the silly idea that it's 'widely' thought that 'Quebec is distinct' by other Canadians. That concept got rejected a few times.

By the way, the push for 'distinct' is actually more commonly viewed by non-franco quebecers as 'we think we're more special than you' by everyone else, who tend to disagree with that concept.

and well, 'Harper' pandering for votes (his 'distinct' reference) is just that: Pandering for votes (edit: which by the way failed horribly).

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm guessing:

Zulu
Popular, fan favorite Civ that would also fit well to the Smoky Skies scenario.
Plus Africa might use more Civs.

Poland
Strong Civ fanbase in Poland, I bet they make their debut on Civ V. I'd like to have them.

Sioux
One of the religions in G&K seems to be native american, so maybe we'll get another one besides Iroquis.

Khazars
A surprising one, but been in many topics about Civ wishes. Also had Judaism as religion so could cover that part well. Don't know actually anything about this civilization!

I'm also more and more inclined on the Khazars, they would be a rather interesting civ to play with/against. Eventful history, very well fitting in the new religion scheme with Tengriism and Judaism, culturally distinct from the other civs

So my current wish-list for GK is: Hittite, Ethiopia, Hungary and the Khazars

With Portugal, Zulu, Sumer, Sioux, Phoenicia, Assyria, Kongo, Poland, Khmer, Mali, Sweden, Austria, Apache or Navajo, Zimbabwe or Swahili, Majapahit or Srivijaya (Indonesia), Morocco or Al-Andalus (Moors) released later as DLC or in a possible future expansion. 50 civs in total, would be awesome
Even if it's unlikely that all of these civs make it, due to being too "close" to some of the already released ones

Hate-list: HRE, Native America, Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, etc...
In my opinion this is not the correct way to represent a civ

From the other seemingly popular suggestions, I'm also not fond of Israel or the Inuits being a full civ, mostly because of the reasons already discussed in the last few pages.
Jerusalem as a religious city-state is perfect for representing Israel IMO

 

[SuperWaffle247]

I would think that Portugal is a really obvious candidate for DLC. I'd like to point out that after the first DLC and G+K we'll have 34, same as BtS. (People already said this.) My point is that will they do another expansion or more DLC after they have 34? I would love for there to be 40+ civs total.

My Civ predictions are Zulu, Sioux, Sumer, and something else...Poland is possible, as is something out of left field. Also Ethiopia.

Further DLC could be Portugal, Hittites, Kongo, Brazil (or another South American civ), Israel (I can dream), and whichever doesn't make it, Poland or Ethiopia.

 

[Gucumatz]

Have you considered making a mod that adds the Chachapoya as a civilization? I'm sure many people would appreciate it, specially since you seem to be rather knowledgeable about them and could properly explain their relevance.

Sadly I am not a modder and have little to no experience with modding.

I have to say though there are some pretty good mods out there, the Pre-Colombian modder and his mod is one of my favorites (Inca, Caribs, Tupi, Chibcha, Sioux, Maya) but there are others that are pretty good and better. The Caribs and Taino were interesting people and good to fill up a scenario/mod but never to make the full scale game. Same with Chibcha and arguably the Tupi.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Sadly I am not a modder and have little to no experience with modding.

I have to say though there are some pretty good mods out there, the Pre-Colombian modder and his mod is one of my favorites (Inca, Caribs, Tupi, Chibcha, Sioux, Maya) but there are others that are pretty good and better. The Caribs and Taino were interesting people and good to fill up a scenario/mod but never to make the full scale game. Same with Chibcha and arguably the Tupi.

I have some experience with modding... if you know where to find images use as icons, as the leader of the Chachapoya and etc., we could work together to bring such a mod into fruition.

 

[CivOasis]

I have some experience with modding... if you know where to find images use as icons, as the leader of the Chachapoya and etc., we could work together to bring such a mod into fruition.

Or, as we invited earlier, you may come join us at Terra Novus.

 

[Polar Bear]

The Polynesians were responsible for the greatest migration in human history. Their reach spread from Taiwan to Hawaii. They did this through technological innovation that surpassed anything else in the world for the next 1000 years. Some Polynesian Kingdoms (e.g., the Tui-Tonga) formed Empires with tributary states. Others (e.g., Hawaii) formed complex societies with a civil service bureaucracy, hereditary leaders, and state-organized engineering projects. They also had developed an Empire among the Hawaiian peoples.

The Inuit were always isolated with small cities that never progressed into complex societies. They lived in villages that filled a niche where they didn't have to compete against other more complex societies south of them. This led to a mostly subsistence society that did not provide for significant division of labor or stratification of society. In many ways, they are analogous to the Bushmen in Africa not the Polynesians.

The Polynesian migration was impressive, as was the migration of the Inuit. Polynesians had to travel over enormous areas of open water. The Inuit may not have needed to cross near as much water, but they did cross over enormous areas of some of the most hostile land on earth.

The Inuit did have to compete frequently against other peoples, including the Vikings for a time. The Norse were a more complex society, and yet the Inuit prevailed. You also should not ignore modern political achievements, as the Inuit did gain back a decent sized chunk of their original territory. The Inuit are a much older people than the Polynesians, with a history dating back about 5000 years. Notably the Inuit still make up around 90% of the population of the North American Arctic, including Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland).

The Bushmen are survivors, but they do not measure up to what the Inuit have achieved. You are correct that Polynesian groups formed more complex societies, however I insist that if the Polynesians are good enough for Civilization V, than so are the Inuit.

 

[Gucumatz]

I have some experience with modding... if you know where to find images use as icons, as the leader of the Chachapoya and etc., we could work together to bring such a mod into fruition.

Ok well I can do that quick here are some images:

Possible Buildings/Improvements:



http://www.fertur-travel.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/revash3-300x225.jpg

A picture of a Chullpa: (A Cliffside Mausoleum). Very important and distinct, mumification appears at its earliest in the Andes in these Mausoleums. They tended to be built on the edges of cliffaces/rugged terrain and are extremely hard to reach.

The Chachapoyan burial places are quite exquisite.

Here is a picture of Chachapoyan Sarcophagi which show both their Amazonian and Andean roots:

http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/latinam/chachapoya1.jpg



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The Chachapoya were also famous for their forts/city construction. Their forts allowed them to fight against both northern invaders and the Inca for centuries. Their round forts can be seen easily via a google search, but here are some links/pics too.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3468476-Kuelap-Chachapoyas.jpg



http://images.travelpod.com/users/k...tist-rendering-of-what-kuelap-looked-like.jpg



Now Chachapoyan unique units will/would be harder to implement. They however were famous for their maces and slingers. (Their slingers were more feared than Incan Slingers ever were) The problem is slingers are already in game.

That leaves us forced to use something with their maces.

I can't give you any great pictures for a Chachapoyan Mace Warrior (Or give you a better name really) but here are some pictures from a couple of documentaries:

http://www.natgeoprogramming.com/images/categoryimages/file/inflightimp-1909.jpg



http://tabulorasa.info/uploads/posts/2011-02/1298189748_e64a1601-7cd2-458a-ab99-082672503ec8.jpg



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And here is a picture that could be used for the Chachapoyan Standard/flag/Symbol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Abisco_or_Pajaten.jpg



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Some pictures that could help I hope if you did want to make a mod of them in the future.

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Some possible cities could include but are not limited to:

Kuelap, Revash, Huancas, Purun Llacta, Yalape, Olan, Leymebamba, Chilchos, Gran Vilaya, Condors Lagoon, Congona, Jalca Grande, Macro, Yamon, Rentama, Iyacyecuj, Meseta, Chachapoyas, and not all cities are listed here (While I know some about their culture, I am still by no means an expert).

The leader would be limited to one of their latter leaders before their end at the hands of both Incan revenge/Smallpox/Spanish conquest; Blas Valera.

 

[Liex]

Are these guys okay?

Now I have to admit that I've never heard of this Chachapoyas before (even as South American and student of humanities), which is a shame. Their burial customs and city building looks so interesting - to say the least - and surely would make up for a nice and unique civ.

 

[Dregor]

Just wanted to add, all of Canada is officially bilingual, not just certain provinces ><