Hammer of the North v2 PBEM

[Morten Blaabjerg]

The only monks the vikings will be able to kill are the ones that are spawned by events.

These are the only monks available in the scenario, until monastic revolution, and besides those the christian civs start out with. Plenty of raiding potential - that's why the viking players start the turn. They get a first shot, before newly arrived monks can be withdrawn. The christian players will have to fortify their abbeys or develop a fleet, in order to prevent such raids. And the Norse and Danes will have to fight over 'raiding' territories, if they contest an abbey where the monks arrive.

Otherwise, I guess that the human player aren't that dumb to use them near coastlines (unless he's taking a chance). And btw, how did you establish embassies? I didn't start with no emissaries or anything. Did I miss something?

They cannot develop or fortify coastal squares, if they don't. Which will be a problem for all coastal cities (which are most of the cities in the scenario). If they are hidden in cities, well planned sieges will take them out. Off course, a player can choose to disband them, as DoM did... but this of course has obvious disadvantages.

Oh btw, I forgot to mention over at CDG. When I downloaded the newest version and killed a king, the sword unit never appeared. As far as I remember, when I lost my king, a new one was spawned right away. I will download it again and try again.

You can't always be sure the coronation sword appears - sometimes it won't, if the event is not triggered, under some circumstances. But mostly this is not the case. I am positive that no king is recreated, unless the 'sword is drawn from the stone'. Are you sure you don't have any old files left in your scenario directory?

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

@Embassies
You need heraldry to build emissaries - so this should be a first choice, when taking a tech by conquest. Usually the Franks and Germans become quite strong techwise and develop this first.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

How could you get involved in a conflict between me and the Anglo-Saxons. I guess your mouth slipped and your alliance is now a fact.

Or else I've missed that you stated it open before.

Tha Anglo-Saxons annouced it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2306900&postcount=303

Obviously the Scots have little in the way of troops to lend support, but we do have spirit.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

They cannot develop or fortify coastal squares, if they don't. Which will be a problem for all coastal cities (which are most of the cities in the scenario). If they are hidden in cities, well planned sieges will take them out. Off course, a player can choose to disband them, as DoM did... but this of course has obvious disadvantages.

If you stack another unit with them will the attacking party still get the bounty? As the Scots I could see no way to protect all the monks and letting them get captured only funds to agressors which would compound the situation later on. A couple units are small losses compared to what several hundred gold could bring to bear later on.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

If you stack another unit with them will the attacking party still get the bounty? As the Scots I could see no way to protect all the monks and letting them get captured only funds to agressors which would compound the situation later on. A couple units are small losses compared to what several hundred gold could bring to bear later on.

This statement is, in effect, the same rationale as to why I view the Anglo's as the aggressor. Funding a war chest against the Danes by using the Danes. Anyway, if we should try the new scenario, I'd expect nobody doing this in-game without some sort of 'trade agreement'. John made mention of the term, and I would agree, it smacks a bit like 'cheat' when there's no agreement in place.

Hey, I tried the new scenario for a few minutes last night! Quite different! Lost my king about turn 2. Friesian king killed the (MY!!) 'sword' a turn or two later. I was kingless, while the Freisans were running around killing everything in sight with TWO Kings!!

What's up with that!? Also noted that Germany has been chopped, power-wise, by a huge order of magnitude, while Franks appear to have grown. Not sure, will have to boot up a dozen turns or so as the Franks.

Be that as it may, if we have another go at it, I'd just as soon play the Germans again, now that I (*somewhat*) understand the principle of this scenario.

@Morten: hey, what's with the new units defending barbarian cities? Destroyed everything I could throw at them!

 

[Gary J. Durham]

Hey, your new version:

City of Schwerin, NON-port city, is building naval bases, naval warships, etc. (don't know if this is critical to you).
Also the PORT city of Trier (although only with ONE sailable hex (landlocked) is not able to build naval items. Don't know if either of these would be important enough for you to bother with, as no human player's going to build ships in either of these cities because of this.

 

[Arthedain]

So.. shall we vote on the matter? (restarting)
Do anyone know if Bo is for a restart or if he wants to cintinue?

 

[Patient English]

My vote is to start anew. I am happy to take the Norse, if Morten wants me as a playtester.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

Whatever you guys decide ~ Gary

 

[Arthedain]

I also vote for starting over. I want to play the Scots or even the Frisians if someone else wants to join (and if DoM wants the Scots again )

Edit: Actually, I'm open for any christian civ this time.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

A new game will be great - John, will you start the new thread, as you will be starting the game playing the Norse?

AFAICS we will get the following players second time round : (if you all agree)

* Norse - Patient English
* Danes - Morten Blaabjerg
* Germans - Gary J Durham
* Anglo-Saxons - Arthedain?
* Franks - Dom?
* Scots - ?
* Frisians - ?
I talked with Bo last week and he says he is taking a break from civ to cool down and tend to his studies... So we need at least 1 additional player, IMO. Would be nice with a Frisian player also.

@DoM
Yes they will still pay off, if a stack is destroyed containing monks. They have to be protected by a powerful military presense, a war fleet is probably the best counterdefense (as this game has shown), if one wants to protect ones coasts.

@Gary
Yes, it is possible to gain an additional king. If you 'claim' the sword, you claim authority of another land. If the Danes say draw the 'Anglo-Saxon sword', they get a new king crowned in Jelling, who can then sail out to claim his authority of England. Basically thats the idea. Historically, the Danes did eventually conquer England and had several (rivalling) kings, most famously Canute the Great. Also Vilhelm the Conqueror can be seen as such an 'additional' Norse or Frankish king claiming the realm of England.

The only way to get a king back if this happens, is to bribe an enemy king to join your civ.

I may have adjusted the balances on the continent slightly, but not in a major way, I think. The barbarian warlords will most often have to be bribed, in which case they will be very useful allies. Which will make the race for the Rhineland and 'middle kingdom' much more interesting I hope. It will be vital to be in control of as many of the valuable barbarian lords as possible.

 

[Arthedain]

I'm willing to give up the Anglo-Saxons to another player if he/she wants them. I have no problem with playing a smaller civ.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

Ok, thanks for the 'kings' explanation. Without the explanation, it didn't make sense. Now it does, reflecting all the macho-ego types laying claim to kingship in the era.

Persoanlly, I don't think I understand enough to play either Norse or Dane. I tried about 15-20 turns last night as such. Couldn't figure out why the first monks were ransomed, the next 6-8 gave me nothing. Would this be because they're ransom is being paid by their respective crowns? I had assumed from the 'church' (i.e. bottomless pit, much as real life).

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Did they give you nothing or just no new message? IIRC, when I dabled with them you got the message only for the first of each nations you took out. Each one thereafter just gave the gold, but no message.

Unless you guys are fine with a 48 hourish turn around time, I'm not sure if I'd have the time to play much. Even then I'm not sure I'd want to go up against John and Morten as the Norse and the Danes, especially with no one playing the Scots. I see the Anglo-Saxons getting hammered early on after the Scots are ignored/rolled over, but, perhaps that is how it was meant to be.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I quickly looked at the new scenario.... Is it just me or can you not bribe cities or establish embassies? It appears you can bribe units however...?

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

@Duke
48h turns is okay with me. Re embassies and bribes of cities : both are possible with emissaries, but the last is not with cities that contain royal courts. Thats probably the deal with the city you tried to bribe.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Nope. I tested it on many cities (some that had no city improvements) and was not given the option of bribing the city nor establishing an embassy...? I tried it on cities of every nation or every size and I was not given the option of bribing the city nor any other activities such as establishing embassies.

To check it I started the game as the Norse (or pick whatever nation you want, it didn't work for any of them for me), activated cheat mode, created a Bishop or Royal Emisarry next to another civs city. Tried to move the unit into the city square to bring up the choices that normally come up and get nothing. No messages, no nothing. I can move the unit against another unit and have them bring up the option to bribe/sabotage the opposing unit, but that's it.

I have the 3 main files from the link you provided installed in a separate directory. Is there something I'm missing?

This updated version sure does seem to favor the Norse and Danes a bit more than the older one. 1000 gold for taking particular cities? Wow.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Hmmmm... not sure what is doing this... it works for me.

I just downloaded the files and installed separately, just to make sure its the same install. The options "incite revolt" and "establish embassy" appears right there with the other options, both for civs with and without Heraldry.

I vaguely remember a similar experience to yours once upon a time.... but not sure of the context.... eventually it got solved though...

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I'm not sure what was causing it, but I got it worked out (for now). I took the new .scn file and copied it to the old scenario folder I had for the first game. When I started up the game in the old folder using the new file, it worked fine.

So, then I started the new .scn file in the new folder and it worked. Don't ask me why or what, but it seems to be ok now.


I guess I can give it a go as the Franks. I'd suggest the new game being started at Deity level so that way at least the AI players would have some boost to offset them not being played by humans. I think the new game is going to be much bloodier than the first with the changes that have been made to the game.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

I think the new game is going to be much bloodier than the first with the changes that have been made to the game.

Aye!
Especially after Morten has chopped the Germans defenses by (LITERALLY) 75%!! (and then he has the Gaul <<;0>> to claim he only 'tweeked' it "a bit".

Let me see... a base '8' defensive seige tower to hold off MORTEN (12 if veteran, then doubled in city)... down to now only a base '2' defensive spearman to hold off MORTEN's assualt (Oops, a base '3' if veteran).

Yeah, this one is going to be bloodier, and a hell of a lot of FUN!
Question is... for 'whom'...