Hammer of the North v2 PBEM

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Okay - it seems we will be ready to start the game. Before we do, I will post the uttermost recent patch, with no serious game-changes, but a couple of fixes to events.txt and pedia.txt. I will post these in the new thread, before we begin.

In the meantime, anyone who knows 1 or 2 candidates for the remaining civs? Anyone who is following this thread, who would like to join in?

@Gary
Are you referring to something like the Germans has no siege tower to begin with?
If you are, I think I chopped it, as I didn't want to give the Germans siege units to begin with - no other civ possesses siege units from the outset. I also wanted, if any civ, to give the Franks the tech lead, as the vikings will then have to go further to get good techs by conquest. The Germans still receive free bishops, as do no other civ.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

Yeah!

I wanna start with 30 seige towers, 25 Warships, 45,000 in gold and, and... oh yeah, 35 Bishops!!!!!

Gary

 

[Arthedain]

Looking forward to the newest version.

 

[Patient English]

Morten, when you are ready with the latest game files, are you going to post them in this thread? If so, I'll take them and start a new game as the Norse. Or mail them to me...

Which level do you like to play at - King (4) or Prince (3)? It makes no difference to the production cheats for the AI.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Here are the latest files. The changes are only slight, as I didn't have a lot of time to look the king events over. I changed the JUSTONCE for the raiding messages, if just to make it clearer that you get gold each time monks are destroyed. But no real game changes.

-- What is the best level for the AI? Please start the game at your convenience

 

[Patient English]

I usually play Bonaparte II at King (4), and have had no problems with that in 30+ PBEMs. It's a bit better that Prince (3) as I think the AI plays a bit better.

@Morten: Are these files all I need to add to those we have been playing this game with?

 

[Arthedain]

On King level I cannot even hurt the Coronation Sword with my best units (I'm anglo-saxons, the unit is on hills).

 

[Patient English]

....well, decisions, please...but I'm not sure the game level affects the CRT. Anyway, not so the difference between L3 and L4 is noticable.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I've always figured to give the AI as much help as possible since it plays so bad, so I've always gone for Deity. It will only affect the non human players and the Barbs attack strength. Whatever level you want is fine, but I'd suggest at least King level.

The difficuly level would have no affect on the defense of the Coronation Sowrd; it's just a tough unit. A little too tough when on a hill if you ask me. Even if the Anglo-Saxons use their best attcking unit, a Thegn, that attacks at a 6 it may take a few of them to 'pull the sword'. Even if the Thegn is a vet it could take a couple of them to succeed. For the Franks and Germans, their best unit is a Swordsman, so it's even worse. The Corronation Sword has a defense of 2, made a 4 by the hill. Early on anyone having a unit that could have a decent chance of beating it are slim.

Effectively, if they lose their King early on and it appears on a hill they will basically be without a king for quite some time. Perhaps a tweak is needed to at least make it so that the Sword will not appear on a hill? At least that way it may take only a couple of the players best attackers to defeat the stone rather than it being almost impossible.

 

[Patient English]

OK, I'll start the game tonight, on King level, and with the scenario files we have been playing with here, modified by the zip file Morten has posted above.

I'll start as the Norse.

Any last minute changes or objections, try to post them here before 18:00 GMT.

 

[Gary J. Durham]

Coronation Sword, base only 2!?

When I played a few turns last week (i.e. posted germans lost king, friesans had TWO kings), the sword appeared in a river.

I had SEVEN units attack it in one turn, and couldn't 'pull' the damned thing.

Are you positive it's only a defense base of two!?!?~~ Gary

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

That's what it says in the rules.txt file. But, like I said, the high firepower (6) it has skews the combat results so it doesn't act as a '2'.

It seems ironic that, early on, the only unit that seems to be able to beat the Coronation sowrd is the King unit itself.

I also noticed that one of the sword spots for the Franks is well outside its borders, is this correct?

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Sorry for being away - been out of town for a seminar for a few days.

@John
Yes the two files in the zip above should be pasted into the folder with version 2.8, to replace the existing ones. Please all discard the previous versions of the scenario. You should all have a readme.txt saying v2.82 at the top.

@Coronation Sword
I deliberately made it difficult to beat with regular units. Any warlord or 'hero' unit should be able to draw it with ease. With regular units you may suffer casualties (there's no way in civ to make one unit not be destroyed, so I figured the stone would have some special, ancient pagan powers, that will kill the unit who are not 'worthy of the crown'....). You just have to go 'goody hunting' and find those fine units that will make decent kings

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

@Coronation Sword
I deliberately made it difficult to beat with regular units. Any warlord or 'hero' unit should be able to draw it with ease. With regular units you may suffer casualties (there's no way in civ to make one unit not be destroyed, so I figured the stone would have some special, ancient pagan powers, that will kill the unit who are not 'worthy of the crown'....). You just have to go 'goody hunting' and find those fine units that will make decent kings

I completely agree that it should take one powerful, or multiple small units, but I don't understand why the sword appears on various terrains (or as I mentioned above, the location they appear at). Sometimes terrain with no defensive multiplier, sometimes 50%, sometimes 100%. On it's own it is powerful enough and serves its purpose, but by having it appear on defensive terrain early on makes it almost impossible. I guess people can 'cover' the defensive terrain squares so the sword doesn't appear on them, but that just seems like an annoyance rather than a feature. Since this game revolves around religion so much wouldn't it also make sense for them to appear in Abbeys also?

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

The swords as symbols originate from pagan arthurian legend, where the wizard Merlin plants the sword in a rock in the middle of nowhere, stemming from the beginnings of time or something. In part I wanted the swords to appear in central locations, yet 'wild places', demanding a quest to be undertaken to get a new king. I also wanted them to appear in inland squares, so that they could not easily be detroyed by ships.

The terrain modifiers will sometimes make 'drawing the sword' a bit more difficult for some civs (especially the Scots and Norse). I personally like this differentiation. One has to take care not to lose one's king. And if one loses him, sometimes one will go through ordeals to get a new king crowned. Different civs has the possibility of different paths and bonus'es, however. The Norse will have access to bribing heirs and giants. The Scots, for instance, will get free knights, when conquering the Pictish capital. The Anglo-Saxons can bribe the strong chiefs of Wales. And so on - I think every civ has such unique paths.

Occupying the 'secret pagan places' can be part of a strategy to gain the new king, or to prevent a civ from gaining a new king.

As time progresses, pagan rituals will play a lesser part in peoples lives, and 'drawing the sword' will be comparatively easier, as one gets stronger units, that can be produced - and the 'quest' aspect of the game will fade to power politics.

 

[Patient English]

Sorry I have taken so long to start. This weekend has been mad. I will kick off tomorrow now, before 12:00 GMT.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

The swords as symbols originate from pagan arthurian legend, where the wizard Merlin plants the sword in a rock in the middle of nowhere, stemming from the beginnings of time or something. In part I wanted the swords to appear in central locations, yet 'wild places', demanding a quest to be undertaken to get a new king. I also wanted them to appear in inland squares, so that they could not easily be detroyed by ships.

The terrain modifiers will sometimes make 'drawing the sword' a bit more difficult for some civs (especially the Scots and Norse). I personally like this differentiation. One has to take care not to lose one's king. And if one loses him, sometimes one will go through ordeals to get a new king crowned. Different civs has the possibility of different paths and bonus'es, however. The Norse will have access to bribing heirs and giants. The Scots, for instance, will get free knights, when conquering the Pictish capital. The Anglo-Saxons can bribe the strong chiefs of Wales. And so on - I think every civ has such unique paths.

Occupying the 'secret pagan places' can be part of a strategy to gain the new king, or to prevent a civ from gaining a new king.

As time progresses, pagan rituals will play a lesser part in peoples lives, and 'drawing the sword' will be comparatively easier, as one gets stronger units, that can be produced - and the 'quest' aspect of the game will fade to power politics.

Then that goal is accomplished. {The Franks will be keeping a unit stationed on the Hills square in their terrain for the duration of the game so that the sword will not appear there.}

 

[Patient English]

Guys, I am really sorry about this, but I will have to bow out of this PBEM....I have just too much on at the moment, and if I start playing this one, I will only end up slowing you all down.

I apologise for wasting your time over the weekend, and hope you can find someone else to play the Norse soon.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

A slower game is better than no game....

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

I would be sorry to lose you, John - it's been a lot of fun playing with you. I got a lot of projects on my hands myself - so I guess in any case, this would be a 'slow' game. I hope you will reconsider - I was looking much forward to seeing your style of play on 'the other side' - you'll be hard to replace.