Highlights and Lowlights of C2C
- Thread starter AIAndy
- Start date
From my pov one of the most astonishing features of C2C is the AI turn time. With a version like 51 (not sure anymore which one exactly), I was able to read whole pages of a book while the AI was busy doing turns in the late game. With the latest version there is hardy time enough to make a coffee while the AI does his moves. Two thumbs up for modding skill and efforts!
This is what I think of C2C in 2011.
Good:
-Getting a sub-forum
-Finally removing that pesky resource limit
-Turn times are better
-New terrains
Bad:
-Still a RAM hog (though not as much as before)
-more unfixed bugs since V19 (although that should be temporary)
-Still stuck on what to do for the Galactic Era.
-Loss of VD (stupid black terrain)
Think that about sums it up. Great year guys!
Good:
-Getting a sub-forum
-Finally removing that pesky resource limit
-Turn times are better
-New terrains
Bad:
-Still a RAM hog (though not as much as before)
-more unfixed bugs since V19 (although that should be temporary)
-Still stuck on what to do for the Galactic Era.
-Loss of VD (stupid black terrain)
Think that about sums it up. Great year guys!
The Good: Subdued Animals (and related stuff)... 'nuff said
The Bad: Variety in maps - only the perfectworld maps IMHO are C2C-enabled (but even they tend to suffer from patchy terrain syndrome)
The Ugly: The main menu theme - while a cool novelty for the first couple of startups, got seriously annoying and quickly found myself replacing it with the standard lyricless baba yetu theme
The OMFGBBQPWNSAUCEAWSUM: The DLL work (turn times, automation, resource handling and whatever freaky stuff you guys did)
The Bad: Variety in maps - only the perfectworld maps IMHO are C2C-enabled (but even they tend to suffer from patchy terrain syndrome)
The Ugly: The main menu theme - while a cool novelty for the first couple of startups, got seriously annoying and quickly found myself replacing it with the standard lyricless baba yetu theme
The OMFGBBQPWNSAUCEAWSUM: The DLL work (turn times, automation, resource handling and whatever freaky stuff you guys did)
I'll probably be burned at the stake for this, but... I kinda prefer the vanilla implementation of cultures. When I pick a civ, I want to be that civ, not be randomly assigned one (or several) from whatever resources are close by from my spawn point; I could just go with random civ for that.
I realize it's still very much a WIP (are some cultures meant to be better than others btw., or will they all be somewhat balanced eventually?) and I'm loving the project overall, so it's a very minor gripe at this point. Plus it does bring something fresh to the game, so in that regard it's a very cool feature to have.
Gotta agree on the loading times as well - blazing fast, by Civ 4 standards anyway. Can't wait to see the project mature even further, there's massive potential and clearly it's in the right hands for that potential to be unlocked.
I realize it's still very much a WIP (are some cultures meant to be better than others btw., or will they all be somewhat balanced eventually?) and I'm loving the project overall, so it's a very minor gripe at this point. Plus it does bring something fresh to the game, so in that regard it's a very cool feature to have.
Gotta agree on the loading times as well - blazing fast, by Civ 4 standards anyway. Can't wait to see the project mature even further, there's massive potential and clearly it's in the right hands for that potential to be unlocked.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I will do a 5 best and 5 worst features i think. Note they are in no particular order.
5 BEST
1. C2C Sub-Forum - This as allowed our ideas to bloom without being overshadowed by RoM or AND.
2. New Terrain - This goes for both the terrain and terrain features. They are so awesome now.
3. Unlimited Resources - The potential of this is so amazing! So much we can do with it now.
4. SVN - This tool has been great for modding since everyone on the team can be on the same page all the time. We could not mod so quickly without this.
5. Custom Values - Adding things like Crime and Flammability is a HUGE thing that we are only scratching the surface of. I expect we can do big things with this in the future.
BONUS!: Max compatibility saving is amazing! It has helped testing a lot.
5 WORST
1. Loading the Game - Since we add more takes way longer to 1st load up the game now. Its something we cannot escape. But still sucks.
2. Missing Text - This is still a big pet peeve of mine. Some mods just don't have descriptions for their pedia text. I make sure all mine have something put in. It make the project look ugly when we have sub-mods with missing text.
3. Ugly Icons - There are some icon/buttons that do not have the proper alpha channels. Mostly in the new boat and aircraft mod. We need to get those to look better so they don't look all weird for their button/icons.
4. Other Civics - There was the money civic thing that got taken out. I did not like it and glad it was eventually removed.
5. Mythical Creatures - I was disappointed that thing like mermaids and sea monsters were temporarily in the game. However I am glad that DH has taken them out or made them optional. The "Bear Riders" are still weird to me.
BONUS!: Quill18 showed our video on YouTube, however he started at the Ancient Era by mistake and thus totally missed showing off our Prehistoric Era that I worked so hard to make.
5 BEST
1. C2C Sub-Forum - This as allowed our ideas to bloom without being overshadowed by RoM or AND.
2. New Terrain - This goes for both the terrain and terrain features. They are so awesome now.
3. Unlimited Resources - The potential of this is so amazing! So much we can do with it now.
4. SVN - This tool has been great for modding since everyone on the team can be on the same page all the time. We could not mod so quickly without this.
5. Custom Values - Adding things like Crime and Flammability is a HUGE thing that we are only scratching the surface of. I expect we can do big things with this in the future.
BONUS!: Max compatibility saving is amazing! It has helped testing a lot.
5 WORST
1. Loading the Game - Since we add more takes way longer to 1st load up the game now. Its something we cannot escape. But still sucks.
2. Missing Text - This is still a big pet peeve of mine. Some mods just don't have descriptions for their pedia text. I make sure all mine have something put in. It make the project look ugly when we have sub-mods with missing text.
3. Ugly Icons - There are some icon/buttons that do not have the proper alpha channels. Mostly in the new boat and aircraft mod. We need to get those to look better so they don't look all weird for their button/icons.
4. Other Civics - There was the money civic thing that got taken out. I did not like it and glad it was eventually removed.
5. Mythical Creatures - I was disappointed that thing like mermaids and sea monsters were temporarily in the game. However I am glad that DH has taken them out or made them optional. The "Bear Riders" are still weird to me.
BONUS!: Quill18 showed our video on YouTube, however he started at the Ancient Era by mistake and thus totally missed showing off our Prehistoric Era that I worked so hard to make.
puttincomputers
Chieftain
Praetyre
King
Hmm... quite a tough one, especially given how quickly the mod is evolving at this stage. Nonetheless, I'll give it a shot;
4. Revolutions: I may be the odd one out here, but I actually like dealing with political instability. It helps prevent the steamroll that usually ensues when one player gets a domineering score and good resource base. Look at how many "top score" civilizations throughout history have either gone extinct or are mere shadows of their former glory: Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Olmecs, Persia, Greece, Rome, the Maya, the Byzantine's/Holy Roman Empire, the Vikings, the Inca, the Islamic Caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, the Normans/Anglo-Saxons, the French, the Italians and Papal States, the Portuguese, the Germans, the British, the Japanese, the Soviet Union and now the United States. Glory is fleeting, and so is cultural hegemony; my only complaint here is that plagues haven't yet been fully implemented to properly restrict population levels, particularily from the Classical to the Industrial era. Also love dynamic civ names; really gives a better feel and helps to differentiate civs and their civics quickly.
3. Cultural Citysets/Units: There is some precedent for this in the field of real time strategy, but how often is it you see two mechanically similar settlements from two different civs in a turn based strategy game look so radically different? It greatly aids immersion to not have, say, the armies of Ethiopia populated by Europeans, or for Greek spearmen to far more resemble phalanxes than medieval pikemen, or for Tokyo to not in any way resemble Barcelona.
2. So Many Civics: A carry over from RoM, I'll admit, but you guys have really boosted up and polished this aspect of the game. Outside of a Paradox Interactive game, where can you see such a detailed and interactive representation of the societal and political divisions and competing philosophies within many of history's greatest civilizations? Where you can see and experiment with the subtle yet radical differences between, say, aristocracy and plutocracy? Where you can found proto-Marxist utopias in Ancient Rome? Where there is more to economics than barter, mixed economies and communism? Where immigration is actually represented as an aspect of national policy?
1. The Sheer Volume and Quality of Added Content: Do you know what I despise more than almost anything else in the world? "Sequels" to simulator or strategy games that actually reduce the volume and quality of their content, replace genuinely funny and warm humor with debased, adolescent vulgarity, and turn beautiful isometric 2D environments into bloom-ridden, uncanny valley-esque android vertigo nightmares that have all the entertainment value of a quantum physics lecture and all the challenge and complexity of a boy band song. My hat is off to any and all modders who work to keep real, quality games alive, and to turn gems into diamonds.
4. Prehistoric Era Doesn't Quite Feel Right: This would be higher up the list were it not in the process of being fixed. I'd like a Prehistoric era where people move around a great deal. Where, for instance, Indians migrating to Australia or Siberians to the Americas can actually happen without a great deal of scripting. Where nomadic civilizations such as the Mongols, Timurids and Huns can play in a radically different manner to sedentary civs. Where competition for scarce resources during ice ages is fierce and prehistoric megafauna and neanderthals are a constant threat that encourages creative thinking, such as building on the edges of deserts to avoid the nastier beasts and putting the hurt on any enemies who try and scout or wander by your little camp.
3. Loss of UN and Guerilla Units: I very much liked the UN mod for RoM, the one that enabled the production of UN units at UN Missions that only the Secretary-General could use, and only defensively. Encouraged some interesting strategies and provided a good representation of modern day peacekeeping forces. Also miss the religious guerilla (I'd love to see organized crime and terrorism represented in a similar manner to WLBO, or see them as negative "corporations") and the Technical. There's something incredible about having a legion of toyota utes at your beck and call, but I can't quite explain it.
2. Inadequate Representation of City-State Periods and Divisions: Take a look at, for instance, the various squabbling cities within ancient Greece, the Warring States Period in China, Renaissance Italy or the Sengoku period in feudal Japan. Germany was only a united nation and culture relatively recently; a Prussia, a Hanover, a Bavaria would do it some good. Basically, civs which are the first to split off from Revolutions and share the same basic culture as the civ they split from, with civs with similar cultures uniting in times of war, much as civs with similar religions do.
1. Religions: And speaking of which, I've always wanted to see religions linked to culture. It avoids them being completely shut off from some players if they pick the wrong civ, while still keeping some degree of historical plausibility that, for instance, one needs Judaism, Israeli Culture and a Great Prophet to found Christianity. I'd also like to see greater mechanical differentiation between the religions, like in abbamouse's mod. Christianity spreading chiefly via missionaries, Judaism lacking missionaries but spreading naturally that much quicker, Hinduism being much more apt for converts among cities and civs with Indian culture, Islamic civs getting a penalty for violating halal etc. Should only be optional, of course, but I think it could work out as an intriguing, realistic, historically accurate and balanced solution to the Asatru Zulu problem.
BEST
5. New Religions and Corporations: I've always wanted to see more representation of "modern" industries such as defense contractors, telecommunications and tourism. Do wish there was a vehicle manufacturing company, though. I also like the guilds, and the additional dynamics they add to the more primitive economies of the Medieval era. New religions are a big plus as well; it always struck me as odd that Confucianism and Judaism got more representation than Hellenic Paganism or Naghualism.4. Revolutions: I may be the odd one out here, but I actually like dealing with political instability. It helps prevent the steamroll that usually ensues when one player gets a domineering score and good resource base. Look at how many "top score" civilizations throughout history have either gone extinct or are mere shadows of their former glory: Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Olmecs, Persia, Greece, Rome, the Maya, the Byzantine's/Holy Roman Empire, the Vikings, the Inca, the Islamic Caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, the Normans/Anglo-Saxons, the French, the Italians and Papal States, the Portuguese, the Germans, the British, the Japanese, the Soviet Union and now the United States. Glory is fleeting, and so is cultural hegemony; my only complaint here is that plagues haven't yet been fully implemented to properly restrict population levels, particularily from the Classical to the Industrial era. Also love dynamic civ names; really gives a better feel and helps to differentiate civs and their civics quickly.
3. Cultural Citysets/Units: There is some precedent for this in the field of real time strategy, but how often is it you see two mechanically similar settlements from two different civs in a turn based strategy game look so radically different? It greatly aids immersion to not have, say, the armies of Ethiopia populated by Europeans, or for Greek spearmen to far more resemble phalanxes than medieval pikemen, or for Tokyo to not in any way resemble Barcelona.
2. So Many Civics: A carry over from RoM, I'll admit, but you guys have really boosted up and polished this aspect of the game. Outside of a Paradox Interactive game, where can you see such a detailed and interactive representation of the societal and political divisions and competing philosophies within many of history's greatest civilizations? Where you can see and experiment with the subtle yet radical differences between, say, aristocracy and plutocracy? Where you can found proto-Marxist utopias in Ancient Rome? Where there is more to economics than barter, mixed economies and communism? Where immigration is actually represented as an aspect of national policy?
1. The Sheer Volume and Quality of Added Content: Do you know what I despise more than almost anything else in the world? "Sequels" to simulator or strategy games that actually reduce the volume and quality of their content, replace genuinely funny and warm humor with debased, adolescent vulgarity, and turn beautiful isometric 2D environments into bloom-ridden, uncanny valley-esque android vertigo nightmares that have all the entertainment value of a quantum physics lecture and all the challenge and complexity of a boy band song. My hat is off to any and all modders who work to keep real, quality games alive, and to turn gems into diamonds.
WORST
5. No Blue Marble: A bit of a petty complaint, I'll admit, and I understand it would strain those with lesser computers and maybe muck up the new terrain, but part of me just loves the sight of a nigh-photorealistic monsoon region.4. Prehistoric Era Doesn't Quite Feel Right: This would be higher up the list were it not in the process of being fixed. I'd like a Prehistoric era where people move around a great deal. Where, for instance, Indians migrating to Australia or Siberians to the Americas can actually happen without a great deal of scripting. Where nomadic civilizations such as the Mongols, Timurids and Huns can play in a radically different manner to sedentary civs. Where competition for scarce resources during ice ages is fierce and prehistoric megafauna and neanderthals are a constant threat that encourages creative thinking, such as building on the edges of deserts to avoid the nastier beasts and putting the hurt on any enemies who try and scout or wander by your little camp.
3. Loss of UN and Guerilla Units: I very much liked the UN mod for RoM, the one that enabled the production of UN units at UN Missions that only the Secretary-General could use, and only defensively. Encouraged some interesting strategies and provided a good representation of modern day peacekeeping forces. Also miss the religious guerilla (I'd love to see organized crime and terrorism represented in a similar manner to WLBO, or see them as negative "corporations") and the Technical. There's something incredible about having a legion of toyota utes at your beck and call, but I can't quite explain it.
2. Inadequate Representation of City-State Periods and Divisions: Take a look at, for instance, the various squabbling cities within ancient Greece, the Warring States Period in China, Renaissance Italy or the Sengoku period in feudal Japan. Germany was only a united nation and culture relatively recently; a Prussia, a Hanover, a Bavaria would do it some good. Basically, civs which are the first to split off from Revolutions and share the same basic culture as the civ they split from, with civs with similar cultures uniting in times of war, much as civs with similar religions do.
1. Religions: And speaking of which, I've always wanted to see religions linked to culture. It avoids them being completely shut off from some players if they pick the wrong civ, while still keeping some degree of historical plausibility that, for instance, one needs Judaism, Israeli Culture and a Great Prophet to found Christianity. I'd also like to see greater mechanical differentiation between the religions, like in abbamouse's mod. Christianity spreading chiefly via missionaries, Judaism lacking missionaries but spreading naturally that much quicker, Hinduism being much more apt for converts among cities and civs with Indian culture, Islamic civs getting a penalty for violating halal etc. Should only be optional, of course, but I think it could work out as an intriguing, realistic, historically accurate and balanced solution to the Asatru Zulu problem.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
This is stuff I would like get put back in too. Most of out problems sprang from Afforess ripping out everything in more recent versions of AND before C2C was made. Thus when we split off we were left with the "thinner" version of AND to build from. I would like to get all those old great features back.
Yeah its been getting kind of old now. It was fun in the beginning but after while I just turned off the music. Not sure what music we should replace it with though.
Maybe a piece of Python that runs whenever you load/start a game which replaces the reference to the sound file with a random one from a directory. Praetyre said he had quite a lot of different music for the eras and there should be several suitable for the main menu as well.
Which reminds me that I wanted to write a script for him to add those music files from specific directories automatically.
Praetyre
King
Another thing I kind of miss is the intro videos. Understandable, since without a serious budget behind you, any "intro movie" is just going to be a series of stills from Google Images (hmm, some stills of historical/archaeological sites, progressing through time with the Civ II theme in the background...). Though, part of me wants to see this.
That's too peaceful, warmongering is the way to go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk1NK8AXepk would be just about perfect with some additional footage from earlier eras (sans the opening credits, of course).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I think we actually have an intro video in one of the FPKs. Someone made it for us.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Thats is quite funny, though. thx.
Yes but it had an AND in it someplace
I am the same way, i like all kinds of music of the loading start screen, like i used to do with each and every version i had different sounds, i still, have a TON of little short clips, like:
Theme from Hawaii 5-0
Theme from 007
American Bandstand
Benny Hill Show
Big Bad John (MIDI)
Born to be Wild (MIDI)
Dont Fear the Reaper (MIDI)
House of the Rising Sun (MIDI)
JC Superstar (Mormon Orchestra)
Magnificent Seven
M*A*S*H
Mission Impossible
Munsters
Rawhide
Secret Agent Man
SGT Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band (MIDI)
Smashing Pumpkins hit
Star Spangled Banner
Whip It (MIDI)
Wild Thing (MIDI)
These are just some of the loading ones i have.
Wipe Out (Original)
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Hmmm. Let me think on the music thing. Its going to be a new year so new music is fitting. Got to find something that fits our mod. The one we have was fun, but like we have said it gets old after hearing it over and over.
Praetyre
King
Would you mind giving my pack a look first? It'll be an optional (and humongous) offsite load anyway, but I'd at least like to keep some degree of consistency in Civ IV's tracks; IMHO, music should always reflect period when at all possible, and be instrumental.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Sure but I don't think the load screen has to be instrumental. I mean the original music had lyrics too, even if it was not in English.
I have also been listen to some Civ5 music on YouTube and they have some nice stuff too.
What would be nice to have some sort of instrumental overture that started out with say tribal music and went up through the musical spectrum. Sort of an evolution of music but all in the same song theme. I cannot seem to find anything that fits that.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Try Sirocco's "Breath of Time".
