If Obama was Muslim

[bhsup]

What "kind" of Christian are you, btw? Just curious. Baptist? Methodist? I know that for many denominations a Catholic or Mormon is just as heretical as a Muslim. Would you similarly distrust a Mormon? To me that was the big joke/lie/hypocricy about Romney's campaign, all these far right extremists who's own rhetoric is anti-Mormon, but lo-and-behold they supported the Mormon rather than the non-religious McCain.

I found that pretty telling.

I was baptized a Southern Baptist. I don't hold with a lot of my more bigoted religious right bretheren who condemn other faiths like that. Yes, I would hold a candidate up to greater scrutiny simply because their faith is different than mine, and that may strike you as bigoted, but as far as their faith itself is concerned I view that as a personal issue between them and God.

If you'll recall, I was rooting for Mitt and am still pretty perturbed that he lost. I suspect Huckabee was a McCain plant to split the conservative vote. I've never been anti-Mormon nor anti-Muslim. You'll never find one post I've made that has criticized anyone for being a Muslim or Mormon. Because honestly, while I am convinced my religious views are right, who God deems worthy of heaven is his business, not mine.

More specifically regarding the Mormon issue, I don't get why other Christians have issues with them. They accept Christ as our savior, the worship God. Ba da bing, ba da boom, that's it. Christianity in a nutshell.

 

[Sui Generis]

I voted for a Muslim in my last provincial election.

I mean, sheesh, religion is small potatoes compared to political platform.


They also provide a foundation for moral thinking, too. People justify their morals partially based on the religion they were raised in. Jesus helped sway Judaism towards a more reasonable morality, not perfect, but better. Islam descended from that, yes, but also sways the morality in a more disgusting direction.

It's not bigoted to say that some religions are less desirable than others. It's just true.

I disagree with your assumption that Jesus somehow "swayed" Judaism. Trust me, it didn't.

But again, why do you believe that Islam is more disgusting? Last time I checked, just as many people if not more have died in Christian atrocities as Islamic atrocities.

 

[Snowball]

I may sound like I bigot, but I would never vote for a muslim. Heck, I wouldn't have even voted for Mitt Romney just because he's a mormon.

 

[Sui Generis]

I may sound like I bigot, but I would never vote for a muslim. Heck, I wouldn't have even voted for Mitt Romney just because he's a mormon.

... well, you are one, but hey, at least you admit it.

 

[Snowball]

... well, you are one, but hey, at least you admit it.

Well, the reason I wouldn't vote for a mormon or a muslim is that I don't believe that they could be perfectly objective and keep America's best interest in mind. Especially for a Muslim. But also, the president is a symbol of what the American people believe in. Obama is a symbol of change. How much change? I would argue very little, but the fact that he's black and a democrat is at least some change from what has happened the last eight years. Going along that thread, if Americans vote for a Muslim, it symbolizes that they are alright with Muslims, and while I have nothing against Muslims personally, I have many issues with Islam, and I don't want Islam to have the seal of approval that comes with my vote.

 

[Sui Generis]

Well, the reason I wouldn't vote for a mormon or a muslim is that I don't believe that they could be perfectly objective and keep America's best interest in mind. Especially for a Muslim. But also, the president is a symbol of what the American people believe in. Obama is a symbol of change. How much change? I would argue very little, but the fact that he's black and a democrat is at least some change from what has happened the last eight years. Going along that thread, if Americans vote for a Muslim, it symbolizes that they are alright with Muslims, and while I have nothing against Muslims personally, I have many issues with Islam, and I don't want Islam to have the seal of approval that comes with my vote.

Same thing was said about JFK, many like you thought he could never be objective and would instead be in the popes pocket. That was not the case.

 

[Masquerouge]

Well, the reason I wouldn't vote for a mormon or a muslim is that I don't believe that they could be perfectly objective and keep America's best interest in mind.

I'm not sure I understand that. Why would a Muslim or a Mormon be less objective than other religions?

 

[Snowball]

I'm not sure I understand that. Why would a Muslim or a Mormon be less objective than other religions?

Well for one, America and our allies are predominantly Christian. And I don't want to make it sound like I think all muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a general dislike of America among muslim countries. And then there's the Israel/Palestine issue. I can never see a muslim being perfectly objective over that.

 

[Sui Generis]

Well for one, America and our allies are predominantly Christian. And I don't want to make it sound like I think all muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a general dislike of America among muslim countries. And then there's the Israel/Palestine issue. I can never see a muslim being perfectly objective over that.

Not really, look at France, they have a significant Muslim popultion, and a massive agnostic/athiest population. Even then, they are secular.

 

[Snowball]

Same thing was said about JFK, many like you thought he could never be objective and would instead be in the popes pocket. That was not the case.

America also has a huge population of catholics. Then and now. And lets face it, Catholicism is not that different from all other forms of Christianity. Essentially, they believe in the same things.

 

[Snowball]

Not really, look at France, they have a significant Muslim popultion, and a massive agnostic/athiest population. Even then, they are secular.

But at the same time, all of Western Europe, even if not all of it is predominately Christian, was and is based on Christian values.

 

[Sui Generis]

But at the same time, all of Western Europe, even if not all of it is predominately Christian, was and is based on Christian values.

And Christian values are superior?

 

[downtown]

Well for one, America and our allies are predominantly Christian. And I don't want to make it sound like I think all muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a general dislike of America among muslim countries. And then there's the Israel/Palestine issue. I can never see a muslim being perfectly objective over that.

Okay, but what about Mormons? I mean, sheesh, we're the largest Christian church founded IN America in the world.

 

[Masquerouge]

Well for one, America and our allies are predominantly Christian. And I don't want to make it sound like I think all muslims are terrorists, but there seems to be a general dislike of America among muslim countries. And then there's the Israel/Palestine issue. I can never see a muslim being perfectly objective over that.

You seem to assume that Christianity has the same role in the politics of American allies that it has in American politics. It does not. You say they're based on Christian values, but less and less so. Take a look at gay marriage, or drug legalization, or family values, for instance.

Furthermore, the US attitude towards the Israel/Palestine issue is anything BUT objective. Though TBH I don't know who can be objective about that issue.

 

[Snowball]

And Christian values are superior?

Yes. I believe they are. I see "mormon values" and "muslim values" as overly conservative. Especially in regards to women.

 

[.Shane.]

I was baptized a Southern Baptist. I don't hold with a lot of my more bigoted religious right bretheren who condemn other faiths like that. Yes, I would hold a candidate up to greater scrutiny simply because their faith is different than mine, and that may strike you as bigoted, but as far as their faith itself is concerned I view that as a personal issue between them and God.

If you'll recall, I was rooting for Mitt and am still pretty perturbed that he lost. I suspect Huckabee was a McCain plant to split the conservative vote. I've never been anti-Mormon nor anti-Muslim. You'll never find one post I've made that has criticized anyone for being a Muslim or Mormon. Because honestly, while I am convinced my religious views are right, who God deems worthy of heaven is his business, not mine.

More specifically regarding the Mormon issue, I don't get why other Christians have issues with them. They accept Christ as our savior, the worship God. Ba da bing, ba da boom, that's it. Christianity in a nutshell.

That's a fair and reasonable answer.

That said, I don't think I've ever once decided on a vote based on someone's religion. In fact, I'd ignore the issue completely except that the media and other voters thrust it in my face so often.

 

[Sui Generis]

America also has a huge population of catholics. Then and now. And lets face it, Catholicism is not that different from all other forms of Christianity. Essentially, they believe in the same things.

It doesn't matter if they are much different or not. People believed exactly what you believe now about muslims and mormons, that they could not be objective. JFK proved it was bull.

 

[downtown]

We Rollin'
They Hatin.

 

[.Shane.]

America also has a huge population of catholics. Then and now. And lets face it, Catholicism is not that different from all other forms of Christianity. Essentially, they believe in the same things.

This really fails to understand history.

Catholics where the Muslims in 1780. Hell, they were up until 1960.

And I promise you, when we do elect a Muslim, then we'll make atheists the new Muslims.

And so it goes...

 

[Snowball]

It doesn't matter if they are much different or not. People believed exactly what you believe now about muslims and mormons, that they could not be objective. JFK proved it was bull.

Catholics also didn't fly a plane into the world trade center.




Look, I know that that particular comparison is ridiculous, but the Catholic situation is completely different than the muslim one.