Just Realized How Much I'll Miss the Old France...
- Thread starter ahawk
- Start date
Hulking Lummox
Warlord
I feel like we're overlooking some very interesting things about the new France.
First of all, culture has likely been changed from turn one, so losing +2 per turn per city presumably won't actually be such a big deal, though your borders will likely be smaller than you're accustomed to.
Secondly, achieving the theming bonus is probably more easily done by conquering cities and stealing great works than by sitting around and swapping them peacefully. Think about it, when the AI doesn't like you they won't even give you 1 extra copy of a luxury! So, with the musketeer and a high likelihood to adopt more freedom tenets quickly with the capital bonus kicking in, you'll be able to involve those foreign legions at a very prime time for a renaissance/industrial series of conquests to raid artwork from other civs. I foresee a great desire to purchase 3 factories as France to accomplish this. This seems more like the France I know about. A bunch of turmoil that leads to great ideas at the end of monarchy/emperorship (and a psuedo-domination focused freedom civ). Plus I like the idea that it all feeds the all-powerful capital, which has its own historical implications.
Not BC settlements having great cultures.
First of all, culture has likely been changed from turn one, so losing +2 per turn per city presumably won't actually be such a big deal, though your borders will likely be smaller than you're accustomed to.
Secondly, achieving the theming bonus is probably more easily done by conquering cities and stealing great works than by sitting around and swapping them peacefully. Think about it, when the AI doesn't like you they won't even give you 1 extra copy of a luxury! So, with the musketeer and a high likelihood to adopt more freedom tenets quickly with the capital bonus kicking in, you'll be able to involve those foreign legions at a very prime time for a renaissance/industrial series of conquests to raid artwork from other civs. I foresee a great desire to purchase 3 factories as France to accomplish this. This seems more like the France I know about. A bunch of turmoil that leads to great ideas at the end of monarchy/emperorship (and a psuedo-domination focused freedom civ). Plus I like the idea that it all feeds the all-powerful capital, which has its own historical implications.
Not BC settlements having great cultures.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
It is worth nothing that EVERY culture giving building (except Terracota I bet) has only +1 Culture. There's a lot less culture to go around with most of it coming from great works.
Zhahz
PC Gamer
This will actually be a good thing for me personally since France's trait is currently so overpowered that I tend to play most of my games as them - I love the early policy blitz for REX support or whatever - fast early policies is always good. This is going to force me to diversify and enjoy other traits.
Dunno if it's the personality or the overpowered +2 culture / turn from the start and early policy blitz that usually makes Nappy so strong. I would bet it's the trait moreso than the leader personality.
And I do think that Frances +2 culture / turn is a bit overpowered. I'll miss it anyways.
Dunno if it's the personality or the overpowered +2 culture / turn from the start and early policy blitz that usually makes Nappy so strong. I would bet it's the trait moreso than the leader personality.
And I do think that Frances +2 culture / turn is a bit overpowered. I'll miss it anyways.
Princeofnigeria
The illustrious
While this train of thought is encouraging, I feel it still misses france. With only the capitol getting a bonus to culture/ tourism, france won't have the incentive to expand as much. They won't have the need to settle north africa, and couldn't hold the cities there. As well, the extra culture aided your infrastructure, as your time in the early game could be used for other, more important matters, rather than just building culture buildings. As well, now that the legionaire is communal, the musketeer has nothing to upgrade into, thus its experience is far less important.
Melo-Franco
Warlord
The old France... So do I.
Nowadays c'est plus la même chose, oh how I miss the old days of Gallia... I miss Napo, I miss Chateaubriand
Nowadays c'est plus la même chose, oh how I miss the old days of Gallia... I miss Napo, I miss Chateaubriand
EricTheGreat12
King
Honetement, je pense que la France etait meilleur avant l'expansion de BNW. +2 culture par toure etait un tres gros advantage 
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Honetement, je pense que la France etait meilleur avant l'expansion de BNW. +2 culture par toure etait un tres gros advantage
For the sake of you not getting infracted, translate.
Agreed.
I think a close translation might be:
Honestly, I think that France was better before the expansion of BNW. +2 culture per city was a very great advantage
But one ought to translate as much as possible themselves, since as the quote points out, one of the stipulations of posting is that you utilize English, primarily.
Loosely, he said "Honestly, I think it was better before BNW. It is a big advantage."
Ninja'd! first time....
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,950
Ancien Regime made France one of the best civs in the game. I kind of wish that they had used this opportunity to overhaul a civ that wasn't already really interesting in its playstyle, like Germany or America (yes I know Manifest Destiny is actually quite good, I've argue to that fact, it's just also pretty boring).
Well 2 
a city would be even more powerful now. The policy costs per city have been reduced again. This is compensated by making all culture specialists come from National Wonders, and all culture buildings except the monument need GW to have a good culture. That means each city will generate less culture than it could before, while costing less. Policy costs have gone done because so has cultural output.
In addition culture is a defensive tool against culture victories and accumulates throughout the game for the purpose of culture victory. Well from the moment you meet a civ. The French UA kicked in from turn 1, unless you moved your settler, which would give France a bigger pool of culture to be overcome. Add in the probable culture UI Chateau and the new France would be really powerful both in defending against a culture game and gaining policies.
You still probably have a good renaissance UU for conquest right before the archaeological sites show up. With a wide empire and recent conquests you could sit on a huge haul of artifacts. Even better many could be from the conquered civs giving you the diversity to use your new theming bonuses.
I doubt the old UA is there it would be too powerful, but I suspect something might be there. Or maybe as France you're meant to not be a culture civ and instead be a warmonger with a powerful defense against enemy tourism.
a city would be even more powerful now. The policy costs per city have been reduced again. This is compensated by making all culture specialists come from National Wonders, and all culture buildings except the monument need GW to have a good culture. That means each city will generate less culture than it could before, while costing less. Policy costs have gone done because so has cultural output.In addition culture is a defensive tool against culture victories and accumulates throughout the game for the purpose of culture victory. Well from the moment you meet a civ. The French UA kicked in from turn 1, unless you moved your settler, which would give France a bigger pool of culture to be overcome. Add in the probable culture UI Chateau and the new France would be really powerful both in defending against a culture game and gaining policies.
You still probably have a good renaissance UU for conquest right before the archaeological sites show up. With a wide empire and recent conquests you could sit on a huge haul of artifacts. Even better many could be from the conquered civs giving you the diversity to use your new theming bonuses.
I doubt the old UA is there it would be too powerful, but I suspect something might be there. Or maybe as France you're meant to not be a culture civ and instead be a warmonger with a powerful defense against enemy tourism.
Crafty Bison
King
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
- Messages
- 756
Dunno how the new early culture will play out, but I'm a little sad to see the Netherlands as the only true REXers left (and then only in sp, and they may have changed too, argh). However, the new France does look more interesting than 'build a load of cities and go to war', so I'll reserve judgement until I play them.
Remember the new Cultural victory can go far wider than the old one and still win. Tourism is like faith in that it cares nothing about how many cities you have. The more cities you have the better. Even a city with no GW but a Chateau can get some tourism from Hotels. Also all those cities can build culture buildings to house the stolen GW from your conquests. The only penalty is to SP generation which is harmful since you want to get to Freedom or Order quickly. Culture victories need not be OCC anymore.
I am already excited about being able to go culturally and have the option to fight. Add in that going wide no longer annihilates your ability to win and the culture victory is more open ended.
Go Piety for super powered religion in Ancient and pick happiness and cultural beliefs. Then you go Aesthetics in classical to buff your GWAM production and culture to keep the policies rolling. Musketeers kick in and you conquer the nearest available culture civ taking their GW. With your large empire you can have a large and diverse set of artifacts to put in the museums of all your cities. Add in additional Chateaus and you can have a wide and powerful Tourism machine. By the time you need to pump through the Ideology quickly you have a powerful culture already set up.
I can see that being my first Poland game with the Winged Hussars replacing the Musketeers as the unique engine. All the free Social policies will keep my policy production up and the gold from ducal stables will help my economy.
I am already excited about being able to go culturally and have the option to fight. Add in that going wide no longer annihilates your ability to win and the culture victory is more open ended.
Go Piety for super powered religion in Ancient and pick happiness and cultural beliefs. Then you go Aesthetics in classical to buff your GWAM production and culture to keep the policies rolling. Musketeers kick in and you conquer the nearest available culture civ taking their GW. With your large empire you can have a large and diverse set of artifacts to put in the museums of all your cities. Add in additional Chateaus and you can have a wide and powerful Tourism machine. By the time you need to pump through the Ideology quickly you have a powerful culture already set up.
I can see that being my first Poland game with the Winged Hussars replacing the Musketeers as the unique engine. All the free Social policies will keep my policy production up and the gold from ducal stables will help my economy.
HeraldtheGreat
King
HeraldtheGreat
King
Honetement, je pense que la France etait meilleur avant l'expansion de BNW. +2 culture par toure etait un tres gros advantage
I knew I learnt French for a reason.
God of Kings
Ruler of all heads of state
I knew I learnt French for a reason.
Same. It helps that French is Canada's other official language. C'est vrai. (It's true.)
Gali brings up the one possible saving grace: as the new France, I might not feel compelled to leave quite so many captured cities as puppets, since tourism doesn't penalize for number of cities, as the quote points out.