LotR24 - French Menagerie

[T_McC]

Looking closer at the save ...

If we did trade for Military Tradition on the inherited IT, appears as though 2 turns of all cash would give us enough money to upgrade all of our Cataphracts. May be worthwhile not to upgrade all of them to Cossacks. Saladin still has some Melee units running around, so an upgrade to Conquistador may be better in some cases. Even though Conquistadors have the same base strength as Cataphracts (what is it with the C-unique Horse units?) the upgrade gives a 50% bonus vs. Melee and a base retreat chance for better survivability.

One of the ex-Russian cities (whose name I forget, but its on the coast) is a decent candidate for the Globe Theater. It looks like it can get about +12/14 food post-Biology. Only relevant if we're bored.

Military Tradition opens West Point for London. The next thing we might look for is the Iron Works location. I'm guessing either Paris or London, depending on how each could handle the health. I would lean towards London unless we want to use the IW to build other Wonders, or it couldn't handle the health hit.

We are still the only civ with Rifling. If we want to slow-play Sci Meth we could head for Assembly Line (Factories, Pentagon) and Rails without needing Sci Meth.

 

[Jabah]

We should have West Point in London, so that is National Wonder #2 (with Heroic Epic).

Depending on health issue (better on coast with harbour), IronWork might be better in Persepolis which could have a good production base (might even consider building workshop instead of the few farm/cottage and then be Wonder happy, but that make National Epic there a bit of waste (to be honnest, with so many hills, each specialist in Persepolis is costing us a lot of potential hammers, so we have to choose between GP or production -- Remark, same with Maoi).

Jabah

 

[T_McC]

We should have West Point in London, so that is National Wonder #2 (with Heroic Epic).

Depending on health issue (better on coast with harbour), IronWork might be better in Persepolis which could have a good production base (might even consider building workshop instead of the few farm/cottage and then be Wonder happy, but that make National Epic there a bit of waste (to be honnest, with so many hills, each specialist in Persepolis is costing us a lot of potential hammers, so we have to choose between GP or production -- Remark, same with Maoi).

Jabah

Substitute Moscow for London.

 

[Jabah]

I will be able to comment a bit more later, but now it is (well past) time to go to sleep.

relatively unformated report

T0

Saladin also has also buddhism for State Religion (in 2 city includign Damascus, so that will mean razing).
Sumeria now has 3 cities in our NE.
Qin and Gilgamesh have a DPact.

action..
sink Brennus 'East Indiaman'
can't attack Brennus stack at good odds, so wait for him to move or suicide against city

Get MilTrad (+cash) for Rep Part with Qin.

Research to SteamPower.

Moscow has no production to speak off right now (but check in 15t).

IBT
frigates won 3 / lose 1 against Justinian fleet.

T1
Sink a carrack, lose a redcoat trying to remove brennus (doing no damage)
Sign peace for all Justinian money.

T2
Declare on Saladin
raze a new city with cavalry.
WW is already high (no surprise) -> culture to 10% and whip some people...

IBT lose a cataphract to a musket (forget the 2move)

T3
IBT Gilgamesh declare war (because Saladin is a vassal...)

T4
Get the heretic events (for 1 unhappy in Paris, get 2 cities to hindhuism)
Raze every city but Damascus, easily (no casualties but a few kwachas).
Damascus should fall next turn , but a spy and a little force is already there.
Spy manage to get the defence to 0%, then redcoats won 3/4 (66% then 80%+) and Xbow and lgbow finish Saladin (raze)
Rebuild Rouen on the Coast.

Whip several buildding in low production cities,then revolt (last turn of GA) to:
Free Speech + Emancipation + Mercantilism.
(Justinian will not open border now, so no reason to have foreign trade with just the 2 other AIs).

And will MM next turn with less WW.

Gilga troops in the north are few and not powerfull (except a grenadier), so upgrade our troops to capture (no bad religion there).

T5
Move troops

T6
SteamPower -> Steel
We have millions of Coal (but half are under windmills of course)

Attack Bad Tibira (whale-cow-iron city)
lose grenadier vs grenadier then redcoat finish the job

Start levee in several cities.

(We are just balanced at 70% research)

T9
Autoraze the city on artic Copper.
Sign peace for all Gilga money as I don't want to be draged into a dogpile in 2t when Justinian could be bribed again.

T11
Steel -> RR

T15
Great Merchant in Persepolis moved towards South to save him for Cereal (+9food) or Sushis (+8food) [Mining Inc is worth +29 hammers right now !!!, to be seriously consider].



Maoi started in Persepolis

Moscow should have IronWorks (queued) and later 3GD as with lots of watermills and a levee it has a potentiel of 60 hammers (before any bonus).

SoL in 7t

Military review :

Main Stack is in Moscow (around 40 units)
Secondary Stack in Paris (around 10 units)
2 redcoats in (most) coastal cities

Jabah

Save ->> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LotR24_AD-1700.zip

 

[Refar]

I think i am up now.

Great Merchant in Persepolis moved towards South to save him for Cereal (+9food) or Sushis (+8food) [Mining Inc is worth +29 hammers right now !!!, to be seriously consider].

Mining inc would also cost us ~35 Gold in a size 15 city with courthouse. More under worse circumstances...

Sushi would be cheaper initially, but as it makes cities grow fast, the costs tend to explode - you can compensate by making the 'overflow' citizens merchants of course.

I think with our size we can live witout corps - we should be able to outproduce anyone and all together. Spreading now would require a insane number of Executives (100 each) and money.

 

[Jabah]

Sushi could be usefull for our futur beachhead in the other continent if we raze remplace, providing culture for very fast tiles controle (and of course growth). (Well mining will make sure we can build things quickly, starting with a courthouse, of course).

In my view, we should spread Corpo only to a selected few cities (especially Mining in that case).

On the other hand, AFAIR Sushi (or Cereal) maintenance would be now less than 12gpt (so it will not be a financial burden).

We still need some techs anyway (and GE for Mining) so as long as we are not using the GPP, no need to decide now. The other option for GPP is wait for a 3rd one (hopefully not Artist or Merchant) and have a G.Age

Jabah

 

[Jabah]

One more thing before I forget: I have promoted our (27/28xp) warlord medic III chariot to cavalry and won 3 or 4 battles (all at 99%+), promoting it to 'leadership' so he is now around 35xp.

Jabah

 

[Arathorn]

Since we went Mercantilism, I'd vote against much (any) corp usage. We can go State Property eventually and just ignore corporations for the most part. Twill be a nice change for me.

As for the Great Merchant, I'd probably just settle him. Or try to lightbulb something. Mainly only do a corporation for denial.

I'd start shipping troops across the ocean to a friendly AI with Open Borders. Ideally, we can take on a single foe, raze a city or so, capture a couple, and get a capitulation. Then we'll be very well set to go after another AI, and another and another..... First step is getting some troops across, though. As well as building up our navy (once we get Combustion).

Tech-wise, I'd go to Combustion, then back to head for Infantry and/or Artillery. I think we can trade for the Electricity/Radio line fairly easily. We need/want the military.

Also, don't forget to have a city or two working on pumping around all our religions with shrines, particularly .... the one where Wall Street is (can't check while at work).

Did we get to Universal Sufferage? I thought that was decided. Were we already there? The ability to rush stuff is very nice, as well as the extra town hammers.

Roster:
LKendter
Jabah
Refar -- UP NOW
T_McC -- on deck
Arathorn

Arathorn

 

[T_McC]

I wouldn't worry about Corporations or eventually going to State Property. We should only have one more war to fight before we reach domination. IIRC we have 52/62 for land and about 41 for pop? Kind of odd, the human usually reaches the pop goal sooner than the land. But Biology solves that problem.

Is the next war with Infantry/Cannons or Tanks? And who should we attack? I think we've already been at war with everyone except Qin, so I vote to attack him. You know, so he doesn't feel left out.

Only thing with the cities: Let's build a 6th University so Susa can build Oxford. In UnivSuff it's only ~10-turn build.

As we prepare for war we should build some "defensive" Redcoats/Infantry and place them in our coastal cities. We should be able to disband all pre-Gunpowder troops in the next set and get our "offensive" units off of garrison duty as well.

We can conceivably have another Golden Age if we can tailor Persepolis to produce two more GPs (without duplication). A GS is fairly easy, then it's potluck for the 3rd at low odds. I don't see a pressing use for the GM right now, so we might as well wait and take our chances.

 

[Arathorn]

Waiting for tanks might actually require less human playing time. At this point, that's one of my main concerns. If we roll with French panzers (OK, saying that, we *have* to get to tanks), we should be able to get the necessary land fairly quickly.

I'd probably vote for a rematch with Justinian. But I'm up for attacking wherever we can find the softest underbelly. We could win by space easily and could probably pull off any win (except maybe diplomatic). So let's just do it quickly and violently. But with panzers.

Arathorn

 

[T_McC]

Heh. If we want to wait for Panzers we should be able to get Panzer vs. Redcoat with Justinian and minions. With the level of promotions we'll have, that means "siege optional" for inland cities and boat bombing along the coast to get things started. That really speeds things up.

 

[Jabah]

1 of the AI (Gilga or Qin) has Rifling.

From my short test game (the one we abandon), get ready to get crushed under vast quantity of troops.

I would vote to attack 1st anyone without a vassal, but get ready to have him capitulate to someone else.

Don't forget razing will give partisans (redcoat soon) and not razing might mean losing to AP.

Jabah

 

[LKendter]

I'd probably vote for a rematch with Justinian.

IIRC we have a point down south were the distance shore to shore is very short. Once we have rails to speed up shuffling troops, we may be able to load in city A and unload in city B in a single turn.

 

[Refar]

Turns 360 - 375 / 1700AD to 1730AD

First some ...

I did not revolt to Univerasal Suffrage. I know it has been discussed/decided, but seeing the game i think i had compeling reasons to 'defy' this resolution.
- With ~35 Cities in Mercantilism (which we are going to keep for a while) Representation is worth 100 raw . SoL upcomming and many cities building Salon (free artist) this is going to increase a lot. Concidering this and multipliers i estimate that by the end of my turnset Rep will be worth at least 350 - which is 20% of our complete output. Cottages on the other hand are rather sparse in our lands...
And it's 3 turns of anrachy, (which could cost us the Pentagon, however this become apparent later) ...
Also at the beginning of my turnset there was not much moeny to spend on rushbuying - we even had a slight deficit at 70%. This improved a bit however.

Other than this, most of the Turn was about railroading. I think most cities are connected now, tho i got lost here and now between connecting and priotitizing tiles, so there might be a gap ot two.

Built mainly Jails for the WW, Some Drydocks in coastal Cities. A couple of factories startet after A.Line....

Turn 363: - Railroad -> Corporation (-> Assembly Line)

Turn 365: - Kublia built The Kremlin.

Turn 366: - QinShi is teching Assembly Line as well. He changed to SP. The industrious dude might make us a race for Pentagon.

Turn 367: - Statue of Liberty done. Our output increased by 180 Beakers.
- Kublai pops a Great Engineer. Our nice Pentagon

Turn 368: - Justinian demands Replaceable Parts. "Go away, grazy guy!!!"
- Start a slooooooooow Wall Street in Mecca.

Turn 369: - A Hindy guy Fails in our last Heathen City. How You do sometinhg like this ? A Entire nation united in one faith, yet he fails to convert the last ramining not-believer...
- Brennus dumped a Settler in the Southern Icy Wastelands, ready to build a crappy city. I am lacking the right words to describe how much i hate this AI-BS. The Good news is - after the next boarderpop Huriharala...(The Ex-Khmer village to the N) will apply cultural pressure ot the jerk, so with some luck this problem might just go away.

Spoiler :

Turn 371: - Assembly Line -> Fashism (Pick up the General)
- A Philosopher Event in Paris. Take Akademy.

Spoiler :

- We have all cities in Hinduism now.

Turn 373: - Fashism -> Combustion. The GG is waiting in Paris. Akademy i guess...

Turn 374: - Orleans done Factory, Start Pentagon. It's our best Hammer City at this moment... Qin Shi still 11 turns to go for Assembly Line. but i think he did not use his Engineer yet...
- Finally unlocked Oxford. Start in Susa - 10 Turns.

Turn 375 ...

Notes
A GG, GA, GM waitning in Paris. I think the GA will go into Military Academy somewhere...
Religion: We have some Monasterys from every religion. Taoism has the fewest with 3. I finished spreading Hindu into the few cities lacking it, and also made a pair of Jewish/Taoist dudes. Did not bothered spreading religions we don't have shrines yet.
Great People: Persepolis is set to pop a GS i hope, Novgorod has some high GPP as well. Set Medina to Great Prophet (Shrine or 'different' guy for GA), but it will take some turns - 12 now but as Persepolis and Novgorod will probably pop sooner it will be delayed some... - perhaps not a good idea but priests are not bad to run anyway...
Pentagon Is beeing built in Orleans - our first Factory and best -city right now. Moskow might be faster, once it finishes IronWorks - not sure... Perhaps if moskow is much faster, it will be worth switching over... But i think unless Qin Shi uses his GE on it, we should be able to do it in Orleans as well...
Mount Rushmore is avaiable and should be built when opportunity arises...
Apostolic Palace was mentioned as a possible fun-stopper in our future war We can just defy any dumb resolution, but avoiding taking Buddhist cities might be difficult - Razing makes partisans, and in old cities it will be lot of them. Conviniently, the AP is coastal... So perhaps just Razing it first might be a good idea...

Spoiler :

Monasteries:
Taoist (3) (shrine): Angkor Thorn, Angkor Wat, Nagara Yajasri (That's all)
Yewish (6) (shrine): Ligurian, Medina, ...
Christian (5): Yekaterinburg, York, ...
Confucian (7): Pasargadae, ...
Buddhist (shrine): Lots, and spread everywhere already....
(only the stuff i noticed by accident or built myself)
If we want more(i thin we got enought) we need to build those now, as after Combustion (2 Turns) Sci.Method might be the last tech we can go... And it will not take long...

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/57778/LotR24_AD-1730.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Arathorn]

Looking good. Steady as she goes, for a bit. Get combustion and go destroyer happy. Then get to Industrialism and go panzer-happy.

If we capture the Apostolic Palace city, what happens? I think I've done it, but I can't recall the effects (and I may well have had Mass Media by that time). That might be worth considering/discussing. Recall that defying only costs 5 unhappies in cities with the AP's religion, so we can do it, with very little repercussions.

I don't think we really need more monasteries. Good to have a few for each religion, though.

Roster:
LKendter
Jabah
Refar
T_McC -- UP NOW
Arathorn -- on deck

Arathorn

 

[T_McC]

I got it.

The problem with the AP is that we can't defy a diplo victory and once we have a city with Buddhism the diplo victory becomes possible. I have no trust in how the AP obsoletes with the UN as I've had games where we're voting in both at the same time.

Destroyers will be a little delayed because we don't know where the Oil is yet.

Justinian still doesn't have Rifling and I'm sorely tempted to drop about six MGs on his lands and watch him burn his entire army on them. Probably won't, but if he comes looking for a handout I'm burning cities.

 

[Refar]

I did not mean take the AP, i did mean burn it Beijing have Hagia Sphia - it's obsolete by now... Other than this... Even tho is a capital - one city more or less does not make much difference...

If we dont burn the AP, we must burn every city with Buddhism - because otherwise we risk a Diplo Loss...

To obsolete the AP, the owner must have Mass Media. If someone else does have MM, its possible to have both votes happily going along. It's dumb but we can't change it...


BTW. I forgot to mention it in the report: I think Brennus devassalized from Justy - on my second turn or such...

 

[T_McC]

LoTR 24

Should be a fairly boring round. Locate the oil, build a Well. Raze the AP city. Just business as usual.

1730 AD (1)
Make a few trades to bring in an extra 35 gpt and some extra resources. Only sent out Health and Stone, so nobody is really gonna benefit besides us.

1732 AD (2)
Really have no idea to where we have railed. Once we can find the Oil I'm tempted to throw the workers on Automated Trade Route building.

1734 AD (3)
Justinian has enough on his hands. [clint]Go ahead. Make my day.[/clint] Found a nice spot to squat near Justinian's point of departure.

Merge GG into London so we can build 20-XP boats from scratch.



Also create max specialists in Persepolis to try to squeeze out next GP in two turns.

1736 AD (4)
Interesting. Izzy wants a limp.


I can too put an entire apple in my mouth! ... that's strangely arousing.

1738 AD (5)
We have hordes of Oil, workers sent to build Wells on all of them. Not exactly optimal, but quick. Research to Biology before we run to Industrialism. Even at this stage of the game food=good. Next turn we have an 85% chance of popping a 3rd GP for a Golden Age.

Qin has a nice stack in Beijing, so this will be painful pre-Panzers.



1740 AD (6)
Most eventful thing was killing a Privateer to get a Frigate to 13 XP (Blitz!). Costs 515 gold to upgrade to Destroyer, so we'll build most from scratch, thanks.

Oh, we also get a Great Scientist in Persepolis so we can have another Golden Age. City is re-set to max food to grow to happy/healthy limit.

1742 AD (7)
Sink another Privateer. Also receive +1345 beakers towards Physics as an event (about 1 turn of research).

1746 AD (8)
We are rapidly approaching the point where my eyes are bleeding with the worker actions. Couldn't they have made graphics that actually showed which tiles were railed? Guess I have to look for a mod ...

1750 AD (10)
Justinian declares war on us. Izzy is coming along for the ride. Can't see this ending well for him.

Start by sinking 4 boats, including 3 East Indiamen. Justy got lucky and declared before the Blitz Destroyer came to the area. But he's got no chance to make anything work here.

Also land 4 Machine Guns in a Forest near the city he is collecting troops for export. I think he'll ignore them ...

1752 AD (11)
Lose a Frigate, but sink 5 more boats. The Destroyer is on the scene, so I can only hope Justy has a few more boats to send ...

He did ignore the MGs. Have to move them inland to play.

1754 AD (12)
Only kill one boat, and lose the MGs under dubious circumstances ... suffering collateral damage from Cho-Ko-Nu? Did take 6-7 units with them, but not a good trade.

I am impressed with the number of Amphibious Redcoats we have. I'll try to put them to good use.

1758 AD (14)
Scratch one.


Justy is a *wee* bit behind the technology curve.

Scratch two.



1760 AD (15)
And Izzy starts to bleed ...



Jakers! I'm razing us right into the pop limit for domination.



Final Notes:

I focused on health buildings and Cannons on this set. I didn't build any Coal Plants, primarily due to a mistaken belief that other plant types were enabled by Electricity. The Cannons were for our eventual inland campaign since I doubt we want to bother with paying to upgrade Hwachas and Trebs (but would pay for Cannon --> Artillery upgrades).

The three GPs are hanging out SW of Paris. Figured the right time to trip the next Golden Age was once we could build Panzers (6 turns or less, depends on how much cash we want to burn through). We definitely need more Transports. I wasn't originally expecting to go on a floating death rampage (kind of like cruise-ship salmonella), but stuff happens. Since we have a few destroyers off of our W coast we don't need the airship in production. A couple of Transports are on our E coast, in case we wanted to use them.

This was my last turn. Fun game, but kind of a blowout. We shouldn't have to kill anyone besides Justinian to win.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33627/LotR24_AD-1760.zip

 

[Arathorn]

Me?

See it. Maybe today. Maybe Tuesday. We'll see. Got it. Hope I can delay my itchy trigger finger until panzers. But maybe not, with Justinian's apparent tech stupidity. Partisan landsknecht (what's he getting) just aren't worrisome.

Arathorn

 

[Jabah]

I don't understand this Justinian and his suicide mood

How far is Plastics, to get 3GD to avoid building millions of un-healthy coal plant ?

We still need to settle 6% of the land for domination .

Jabah