I'd certainly like to fix this for python scripts. For XML and cpp I'm on the fence; changing whitespace makes the annotate/blame feature of hg/git useless, and merging with disabled whitespace should work fine, I think.
MNAI-U: unofficial build & bugfixes
- Thread starter lfgr
- Start date
Alekseyev_
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 259
Thanks for the update! Will try the new Revolution mechanics as soon as I can 
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I just had some odd behavior in the latest game with my modmod, which includes you latest update.
Cassiel asked me to make peace with Falamar, which I did.
Falamar had recently become a vassal of Sabathiel, with whom I was also at war.
(I'd begun the game with the always peace option but deactivated that in the late game. After a long time with a Defense Pact and Friendly relationships with Rivanna the Wraith Lord of the Svartalfar I was hoping for a permanent alliance, but she wasn't giving me the option so I used worldbuilder to merge out teams too. I was planning war against either the Ljosalfar or Balseraphs because their territories has expanded to cut off two of my cities from the rest of my empire and they hadn't been willing to grant me right of passage agreements. A few turns later I accepted Perpentach's request to become our vassal, despite him being at war with not only the Ljosalfar but also the Lanun and Bannor. He might have been at war wth the Grigori too but I think Cassiel was bribed into war against me after that. After I conquered half the Ljosalfar and was considering a peace treaty, Thessa became a vassal of Cassiel. I managed to make peace with the Grigori right after vanquishing Thessa completely. A turn or two later Cassiel asked me to make peace with Falamar.)
I was thinking peace with Falamar would also give me peace with Sabathiel, or perhaps end their vassal agreement, but instead I ended up at peace with the vassal while remaining at war with his master. I don't think they are supposed to have separate diplomacy like that.
Cassiel asked me to make peace with Falamar, which I did.
Falamar had recently become a vassal of Sabathiel, with whom I was also at war.
(I'd begun the game with the always peace option but deactivated that in the late game. After a long time with a Defense Pact and Friendly relationships with Rivanna the Wraith Lord of the Svartalfar I was hoping for a permanent alliance, but she wasn't giving me the option so I used worldbuilder to merge out teams too. I was planning war against either the Ljosalfar or Balseraphs because their territories has expanded to cut off two of my cities from the rest of my empire and they hadn't been willing to grant me right of passage agreements. A few turns later I accepted Perpentach's request to become our vassal, despite him being at war with not only the Ljosalfar but also the Lanun and Bannor. He might have been at war wth the Grigori too but I think Cassiel was bribed into war against me after that. After I conquered half the Ljosalfar and was considering a peace treaty, Thessa became a vassal of Cassiel. I managed to make peace with the Grigori right after vanquishing Thessa completely. A turn or two later Cassiel asked me to make peace with Falamar.)
I was thinking peace with Falamar would also give me peace with Sabathiel, or perhaps end their vassal agreement, but instead I ended up at peace with the vassal while remaining at war with his master. I don't think they are supposed to have separate diplomacy like that.
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MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
In my next game I found that the Always Peace option does not prevent a vassal from declaring war on your when you demand resources from them.
There's a pretty severe bug with the new version of the mod affecting revolutions: every time you change the production queue of a city, the revolution index is permanently increased by an amount equal to what would have been applied at the end of the turn.
With the city Prespur, I can toggle it's next build a few times, and......
Instantly increases its revolution index even though it's the same turn.
With the city Prespur, I can toggle it's next build a few times, and......
Instantly increases its revolution index even though it's the same turn.
Tielby
Prince
Is there a reason Baron Halfmorn can't be fused with a Great General? I don't remember that not being possible in earlier versions.
It's definitely been a thing for a while, though I can't remember if it was introduced with MNAI-U or not.
Regardless, the reason why is that Great Generals have limits on the unit types that they can be attached to, and as a Beast, Baron Duin Halfmorn doesn't count.
The most reliable way is starting the scenario manually from Assets/XML/Scenarios.
Pinning this thread is a good idea, I think. Thanks!Let me know me know if you need this or anything else pinned? And any other spring cleaning done in the MNAI area guys.
New release: mnai-2.9.2-1u.
Compatible with 2.9u savegames.
Download setup
Download archive
This is an emergency release to fix the revolutions bug @Xirema pointed out. It also includes a fix to the escape bug mentioned by @Alekseyev_.
If you don't use revolutions (and don't mind the AI not using the Escape spell), you can safely ignore this update.
Thanks to @Xirema, @Alekseyev_, and @MagisterCultuum.
Compatible with 2.9u savegames.
Download setup
Download archive
This is an emergency release to fix the revolutions bug @Xirema pointed out. It also includes a fix to the escape bug mentioned by @Alekseyev_.
If you don't use revolutions (and don't mind the AI not using the Escape spell), you can safely ignore this update.
Thanks to @Xirema, @Alekseyev_, and @MagisterCultuum.
Done, also pinned your project thread too as it looks like you're carrying the torch here now. Just tag me in the future if you need anything done in here. I'm not the Civ4 moderator but am an fan of the FFH2 spinoffs so am happy to help.
Alekseyev_
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 259
I have to be honest, I feel like activity in pinned threads often gets lost. They are usually far seperated from the other "normal" threads, and that causes them to get less attention. Plus pinned threads are often ages old with little relevant new content. (But ofc often relevant old content like download links.
It might sound weird, but I think in a forum where there is no risk of the thread getting drowned in other new submissions, having it non-pinned might be better.
(Speaking from several years of moderating experience on an old AoE2 forum )
Also, hi @Blake00, I see we frequent the same aspects of Civ - Civ4 with FfH2/MNAI and Civ3 modding
Wonderful, thank you! Can't wait to try Revolutions and AI chanters
___________________
By the way, did you ever do anything related to OOS errors in the last 1.5 to 2 or so years? I remember that when I initially started playing MNAI in multiplayer, we used to run into OOS more often than not, sometimes to a game-breaking extent (OOS every turn for 30 to 100 turns, which was disheartening when already well into a great game), but at some point, likely with one of the patches in the time frame I mentioned, it just stopped altogether. Now we get one OOS every 3 or 4 games, and it is permanently fixed upon a reconnect, basically nothing unexpected from an old and heavily modded game. Which is wonderful as well, and really increased the enjoyment ever since. Only thought about it recently when reminiscing about those old dire OOS-ridden times with my brother.
__________________
Oh and one more thing! I was looking for some information on the forums for why the Luonnatar unit requires upgrading from a level 6 unit, when it is nowhere as strong as you'd expect for such a requirement (compared to Immortals, High Priests or Marksmen), and I read that they used to be able to build the Altar of the Luonnatar. I believe it was @MagisterCultuum who pointed that out. Now having that removed makes total sense, it sounds insanely easy to rush with a bunch of adventurers alone, but don't you think the level requirement should have been removed as well? After all, being locked into neutral alignment and having their druids replaced by Luonnatar, the Grigori are locked out of this unit-line of Druid/Eidolon/Paladin altogether. Or does that go too far into the balance territory that MNAI doesn't touch?
It might sound weird, but I think in a forum where there is no risk of the thread getting drowned in other new submissions, having it non-pinned might be better.
(Speaking from several years of moderating experience on an old AoE2 forum
)Also, hi @Blake00, I see we frequent the same aspects of Civ - Civ4 with FfH2/MNAI and Civ3 modding
Wonderful, thank you! Can't wait to try Revolutions and AI chanters
___________________
By the way, did you ever do anything related to OOS errors in the last 1.5 to 2 or so years? I remember that when I initially started playing MNAI in multiplayer, we used to run into OOS more often than not, sometimes to a game-breaking extent (OOS every turn for 30 to 100 turns, which was disheartening when already well into a great game), but at some point, likely with one of the patches in the time frame I mentioned, it just stopped altogether. Now we get one OOS every 3 or 4 games, and it is permanently fixed upon a reconnect, basically nothing unexpected from an old and heavily modded game. Which is wonderful as well, and really increased the enjoyment ever since. Only thought about it recently when reminiscing about those old dire OOS-ridden times with my brother.
__________________
Oh and one more thing! I was looking for some information on the forums for why the Luonnatar unit requires upgrading from a level 6 unit, when it is nowhere as strong as you'd expect for such a requirement (compared to Immortals, High Priests or Marksmen), and I read that they used to be able to build the Altar of the Luonnatar. I believe it was @MagisterCultuum who pointed that out. Now having that removed makes total sense, it sounds insanely easy to rush with a bunch of adventurers alone, but don't you think the level requirement should have been removed as well? After all, being locked into neutral alignment and having their druids replaced by Luonnatar, the Grigori are locked out of this unit-line of Druid/Eidolon/Paladin altogether. Or does that go too far into the balance territory that MNAI doesn't touch?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I went ahead and merged this with my modmod last night, and have had more unexplained crashes today than I had in weeks with the last DLL.
Looking at the commit log, I barely ever did something about OOS errors (only related to BUG options, like dynamic civ names). Terkhen worked a lot on squashing OOS bugs, but that was over 7 years ago.
I made a note regarding Luonnotar, any contrary opinions?
I didn't change the DLL in this mini-release. I would guess it's something unrelated.
Alekseyev_
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 259
Interesting. I wonder what it was, then. Either way, we're enjoying MNAI more than ever.
Dominus the Mentat
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2018
- Messages
- 294
Hi. I have played the mod sometimes and liked very much the work that has been done. With the new update, I decided to give some observations to help in future updates:
Wouldn't be better to be put this events related to unique features as quests? Since the game lacks quests, would be nice have these ones for the player have some fun exploring and gain rewards.
Some quests could give better rewards, like this one in the image below. Since Camulos is the god of war, choosing this option could be nice to have some chance of give units rage or another buff related to chaos mana
Have any plans about the crime rate? Would be nice to see it working, since some events are very connected with it and actually have no effect.
Since the early game the civilizations doesn't have access to adepts, unless they find the tech in the tribal huts, I suggest this event be unlocked only after researching Knowledge of the Ether. Also, one of the options asks for an adept, but in the moment that the event triggered I have none. Nevertheless it doesn't need an adept but only to the player have Nature Mana, which doesn't relate well with the option.
Sometimes civilizations that I have not know yet asks for cities that are close to them
The AI doesn't asks or accept peace treaties. They just declare war and fight until one of the sides is destroyed.
Wouldn't be better to be put this events related to unique features as quests? Since the game lacks quests, would be nice have these ones for the player have some fun exploring and gain rewards.
Some quests could give better rewards, like this one in the image below. Since Camulos is the god of war, choosing this option could be nice to have some chance of give units rage or another buff related to chaos mana
Have any plans about the crime rate? Would be nice to see it working, since some events are very connected with it and actually have no effect.
Since the early game the civilizations doesn't have access to adepts, unless they find the tech in the tribal huts, I suggest this event be unlocked only after researching Knowledge of the Ether. Also, one of the options asks for an adept, but in the moment that the event triggered I have none. Nevertheless it doesn't need an adept but only to the player have Nature Mana, which doesn't relate well with the option.
Sometimes civilizations that I have not know yet asks for cities that are close to them
The AI doesn't asks or accept peace treaties. They just declare war and fight until one of the sides is destroyed.
Thanks for the feedback. The event stuff is out of scope for this mod, though I'll consider it for extramodmod (I've had some further event updates planned for some time now).
It also gives a small instability penalty if you use Revolutions.
What do you mean? Crime rate does have an effect, some events require a certain minimum crime rate (like Bandit Nietz, Governor Assassination). I'd agree that it is barely noticeable, though. Some integration with CoE might be nice.
It also gives a small instability penalty if you use Revolutions.
I honestly think this is an acceptable abstraction. Actual units aren't an accurate representation of your population; we shouldn't assume the first adept unit you build is the first and only (at the time) person in your empire capable of magic.
Fair, that shouldn't happen. I made a note.
This is not true in general, I've successfully made peace in my last game. The AI is usually overconfident in my experience, but that's hard to fix.
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