[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[GhostQ]

This is a change? Last time I played the Grigori the Lunnotar were a substitute for inquisitors and they were able to train three druids when they learned "Commune with Nature." If this is now the case, then the Grigori are still short on units since they wouldn't have any type of disciple units...

Yes, it is a change. Inquisitors were removed from the game. Any type of priests can get the Inquistion promotion and Command promotion, which was divided to several promotions. %10 chance of capturing at Command I, %30 at II, %50 at III and finally %70 at IV (only for Order High Priests). Luonnotar is a Druid replacement for Cassiel now. And also, national unit limit is 4 now in case you didn't notice.

 

[Ambreville]

Had a couple of CTD's around turn 368 waiting for the other civs to finish their turn. Using patch c.

Here are the saved file and the logs. Could be a memory issue since I run this on half a meg of RAM.

EDIT -- uploaded the correct save file.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Whoa... How long has this been happening? Like, any game that I've played since the release of Shadow or just the last major patch?

That sure does explain a lot.

 

[GhostQ]

Does this mean all of our games in 0.30 etc. were with double AC (aka with Last Days on) till now? I mean via "Play Now!". Today I tried to get Armageddon to happen, I kept razing cities and spread AV all over the world (the game ended up with a Religious Victory) and no matter how hard I tried AC didn't get past 66.

 

[Omegon3]

Yes, it is a change. Inquisitors were removed from the game. Any type of priests can get the Inquistion promotion and Command promotion, which was divided to several promotions. %10 chance of capturing at Command I, %30 at II, %50 at III and finally %70 at IV (only for Order High Priests). Luonnotar is a Druid replacement for Cassiel now. And also, national unit limit is 4 now in case you didn't notice.

Yes, I noticed that and the fact that inquisitors were no longer in the game except as a unit upgrade... OK, then my question is -- do neutral civs have an alternative unit to those for the "good" and "bad" civs or are they simply "out of luck" since I'm fairly certain that druids USED to be their equivalent. Also, unless Luonnotars no longer requires a level 6 or above unit to upgrade from, doesn't this really put the Grigori in a weak position (especially if they don't get a lot of adventurers)?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Does this mean all of our games in 0.30 etc. were with double AC (aka with Last Days on) till now? I mean via "Play Now!". Today I tried to get Armageddon to happen, I kept razing cities and spread AV all over the world (the game ended up with a Religious Victory) and no matter how hard I tried AC didn't get past 66.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was only a mistake in .31. I certainly noticed that the AC seemed to be rising too fast in .31, whereas .30 was just about right. (I never really tried Last Days much regardless of the version)

 

[Kael]

Had a couple of CTD's around turn 368 waiting for the other civs to finish their turn. Using patch c.

Here are the saved file and the logs. Could be a memory issue since I run this on half a meg of RAM.

EDIT -- uploaded the correct save file.

I loaded this twice with patch d, it didnt crash either time.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Yes, I noticed that and the fact that inquisitors were no longer in the game except as a unit upgrade... OK, then my question is -- do neutral civs have an alternative unit to those for the "good" and "bad" civs or are they simply "out of luck" since I'm fairly certain that druids USED to be their equivalent. Also, unless Luonnotars no longer requires a level 6 or above unit to upgrade from, doesn't this really put the Grigori in a weak position (especially if they don't get a lot of adventurers)?

Good civs - Paladins
Neutral civs - Druids
Evil civs - Eidolins

As I recall...

 

[Ambreville]

I loaded this twice with patch d, it didnt crash either time.

Thanks for checking. The crash happens after one to two turns, while waiting for the other civs. Was there anything suspect in the logs?

It may be a memory problem. I used to be able to run the Vanilla version with a large map, version 2 030 with no bigger than a standard map. Apparently, I can't run a full game with 2 031 using standard map. Oh well...

 

[Omegon3]

Good civs - Paladins
Neutral civs - Druids
Evil civs - Eidolins

As I recall...

That's what I thought, but in my current game with the Grigori I didn't get druids and I was wondering if this was a change at the .31 level...

I did a little bit of digging and it certainly appears as if GhostQ didn't steer me wrong -- the luonnotars were changed to a replacement for the druids with the loss of inquisitors which really seems like it's putting the Grigori at a disadvantage. Not only do they lose any type of disciple unit, but they now cannot have a druid-type unit unless they have a level 6 unit (the "minlevel" value).

 

[Broken Hawk]

Not having access to Inquistion is not good for the Grigori from a balance standpoint. If AV starts moving into their cities, they are helpless to stop it's spread and keep the AC down. I don't know if it is possible to program but I think it would be a good idea to stop the spread of any religion to Grigori cities given their background. They would not be inclinced to embrace any religion. Of course that would probably adversely impact the Religious Victory condition.

 

[eddfire3]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that my adepts can only cast wither on the tile they are currently on, casting it on the units in the same tile. This means that I am casting it usually on my own units, which I quickly stopped doing. If I am at war with someone, I can't have my adept occupy the same space as them, so I can never cast wither on enemies. What is the point of this spell? It needs to be a ranged attack.

EDIT: Wait it appears to affect any units near by. Will it ever affect my own units? And does the range of 1+ mean it will affect only units next to my adept, or could it go farther? (not sure what "+" means)

EDIT2:
Also, the Meshabber (sp?) of Dis pedia entry says it only requires the AV Holy city and Infernal Pact to be built. I have both, but I can not construct him. Are there other requirements not listed that I must meet? Perhaps a AC rating or a higher level tech?

 

[Itambu]

Firstly a big THANKS to Kael and the team for FfH 2031. 2nd a big Thanks to Vehem for FF for all the hard work. I could finally load FF into .31 and am currently enjoying playing the Mazatl. Long live the Lizard's. Looking forward to trying more, only our third game ever with FfH.

MajisterCultuum

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was only a mistake in .31. I certainly noticed that the AC seemed to be rising too fast in .31, whereas .30 was just about right. (I never really tried Last Days much regardless of the version)

We, my wife and I were wondering about the AC as suddenly it was rising very quickly and we hit 73 before we could get to war and start destroying the cities and lowering the count. Have just destroyed the Ashen Vale holy city.

Also never used Last Days (didn't know it existed) and currently the AC counter is at 75 we have all 4 horsemen running around and we are loving the AC though were a bit concerned with what was going to happen at first and what is still to come, but having never experienced the AC so high before its new & fun for us. We just captured Acheron and are chasing the horsemen atm Got rid of all the Sect of Flies and Lairs on our lands that suddenly appeared.

We are at turn 344 and the game is running smoothly with only 1 CTD in the usual end turn AI time. So seems stable with 0231 with Patch C and FF beta added. Will load patch D for my next game, want to keep the AC as is and see if we can defeat if or see the result.

I do have a quick question though. With the magic nodes we generally get 1 of various types to give us a larger selection of magics. However reading up I see that some people prefer 2, 3 or 4 or more of the same type of magic node. I'm a little confused as to the benifits of additional nodes made into the same type of magic other than the cumalitive effects of the node itself ie; 1 sprit = 5% Great person 2 Sprit = +10% etc.

So basically my question is: Is there any other benifit to having more than 1 of the same node? ie 4 x fire node?

Once again Cheers for all the hard work and for such a great game.

 

[Kinjiru]

So basically my question is: Is there any other benifit to having more than 1 of the same node? ie 4 x fire node?

The benefit of having multiple nodes of the same type is that any new units produced that are capable of learning spells in that sphere will get them for free. Basically - free promotions.

So, let's say you build a fire node. Your new adapts will be able to access that sphere and take the Fire I promotion.

Now, if you build a second fire node, a new adapt will automatically get the Fire I promotion, and you can then choose to take either Fire II or some other sphere as your first promotion.

For wildly destructive game, build 4 fire and 4 death nodes and then keep pumping out the adepts

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes. Free spell sphere promotions, and affinity.

1 of a mana allows you to purchase a promotion of the sphere (actually, only level 1 needs the resource)
2 of a mana gives level 1 of the sphere to you adepts for free when they are built.
3 of a mana gives levels 1 and 2 of the sphere to your mages when they are upgraded.
4 of a mana gives levels 1 and 2 and 3 of the sphere to your Archmages when they are upgraded.


(Before patch d you could not get level 3 for free, and the promtions were all applied when adepts were built. This worked fine before sorcery and summoning were merged, but then for a while adepts could use all the mage spells)


A unit with X affinity for Y resource gets +X strength for each source of Y you control. Most (well, all) of these Y resources are mana types. Unit with affinity include most summons (mostly 1 affinity of their sphere, but Djinni have 1 affinity for every mana type), Druids (1 nature affinity), and heroes like Yvain (2 nature mana affinity) and Chalid (2 sun mana affinity) have affinity. You can increase their strength without limit, if you have enough mana.

 

[Fader55]

Not sure if this is a bug, or a balance thing, or if it's been changed from earlier versions. The Elves are now able to build all improvements(not up to lumbermills yet) without clearing forests. The improvements & the forest still exist ( even mines?)

On a side note, is there anywhere that the various types of maps are described?

Fader

 

[Broken Hawk]

The little tree huggers leave the forests in place even after building an improvement.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Not sure if this is a bug, or a balance thing, or if it's been changed from earlier versions. The Elves are now able to build all improvements(not up to lumbermills yet) without clearing forests. The improvements & the forest still exist ( even mines?)

On a side note, is there anywhere that the various types of maps are described?

Fader

That is intended.

Elven workers can never built lumbermills though, and they build more slowly than most workers (Dwarven workers are faster, and mud golems faster still). Of course, the inability is unit specific (captured workers/slaves can build them) while the ability to build in the forests is civ specific (so the captured dwarven workers can build everything, including lumbermills, in forests, faster than usual).

Of course, lumbermills never remove forests (although I think there should be events tied to lumbermills that do), but they aren't really needed so much because of all the other improvements.

 

[Grey Fox]

Of course, lumbermills never remove forests (although I think there should be events tied to lumbermills that do), but they aren't really needed so much because of all the other improvements.

I'd think it would be better if Lumber Mills randomly turned its forest into a new forest, with possibly a tiny chance of it removing the forest but honestly I don't think removing it would be a fun mechanic.
Instead of randomly it could even be like the cottages, only it starts at the highest level and goes down.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, I wasn't thinking that removing it would be he only option in the random event. It would be kind of like a more flavorful mine collapse event, with some options depending on religions (mostly FoL)

Having it downgrade like cottages might be good too.