Module - More Great Sage buildings

[Breez]

Why am I envisioning one poor poor souls who is diseased, plauged, weak, mutated, evaserated, with a peg leg, and a crutch being sent over and over into the dungeon to retreive gold and trinkets while letting the city defenders handle any Monsters he sets free.

Since this is infinitely repeatable maybe it should have a 3-5 turn "cast time". The exploring unit would still be available to defend the city but could only explore every so often.

Nice module by the way. I like it a lot. I expected higher prices on the magic items, but like you I tend to run + 100-200 gold per turn at 100% research. Getting 2000 doesn't take me to long mid to late game. Typically I just use the gold to jump start new cities. now I will have to think about it.

(As someone mentioned above, I would LOVE to see something like this for Merchants and Bards, Prophets too!!! Prophets would let evil races who can't do the temple not hate getting them and give good races a choice. would only need 1 or 2 buildings for them I bet)

 

[far_wanderer]

What a neat collection of ideas! Good work. Hopefully someone will contribute your desired civilopedia entries, I am sure some interesting quotes and fiction type stuff could be associated with your new ideas.

I will have to play around with it, but I think the big standout idea there seems to be "Controlled Rift." Sounds almost Wonder-worthy! A lot of downside risk of dungeoneering would seem to be taken out of the equation by having one dude on a high culture, well defended city tile full of archers or something like that, do the dungeon delve, and even if "a powerful guardian rises from the lair" type results come up, so what, they'll just dash themselves against your defenses! Sure you could still end up with badly mutated units, crazed units, "never emerges from the depths" units, but anyhow, this sounds like a lot of fun.

I can do the civilopedia entries myself, it's just a matter of getting the time. Most of what you say about Controlled Rift is true, but I expect the barbarians would pillage like crazy instead of suiciding on city walls.

Damn. This module looks great.

Can I insert a module like this into my current game and run it fine, or will I have to wait until my next game to try this wonderful idea out?

I can't guarantee it'll work, but it probably would. Unlike a lot of other modules, this one is actually just pure addition, nothing currently in the game has been changed. I'd say try it - worst case scenario your save won't load and you'll have to remove the module again until you finish.

Why am I envisioning one poor poor souls who is diseased, plauged, weak, mutated, evaserated, with a peg leg, and a crutch being sent over and over into the dungeon to retreive gold and trinkets while letting the city defenders handle any Monsters he sets free.

Since this is infinitely repeatable maybe it should have a 3-5 turn "cast time". The exploring unit would still be available to defend the city but could only explore every so often.

Nice module by the way. I like it a lot. I expected higher prices on the magic items, but like you I tend to run + 100-200 gold per turn at 100% research. Getting 2000 doesn't take me to long mid to late game. Typically I just use the gold to jump start new cities. now I will have to think about it.

(As someone mentioned above, I would LOVE to see something like this for Merchants and Bards, Prophets too!!! Prophets would let evil races who can't do the temple not hate getting them and give good races a choice. would only need 1 or 2 buildings for them I bet)

I'm in the process of playing through a test game, so we'll see how the Controlled Rift goes. I'm still leaning towards the side of "it's at Pass Through the Ether, it should be really good" but we'll see how I feel after actual playtesting. If I do tone it down, I'll use your idea for a casting delay - that makes a lot of sense.
And the other GPs are next on the list.

 

[Brokenbone]

Why am I envisioning one poor poor souls who is diseased, plauged, weak, mutated, evaserated, with a peg leg, and a crutch being sent over and over into the dungeon to retreive gold and trinkets while letting the city defenders handle any Monsters he sets free.

*names unit "Lucky"*

Come to think, this'd be a good vacation spot for Grigori Adventurers... they have both the Adventurer and Hero promo to help bump up to the "good" results end of the dungeon tables, right?

I haven't played with this Module all the way to the Pass thru Ether tech level, but I'm looking forward to it. That late in the game (well, it's a late tech the way I play), I figure especially for builders who have units with time on their hands, this may be fun. *shrugs*

 

[Divvu]

Also, good way to tone down controlled rift would be a dedicated results table!
Sure a stack of barbarians at those levels would probably be a joke, but how about a tailored bad result like:

"A sweeping, otherwordly (sp?) plague hits your city (-10 population)"

"Some dark creatures manage to exit and hide in the city (-5 health, - 5 happy, 10% of wearing of each turn)"

"As a result of the operation all the inhabitants are left temporarily voiceless (-300 culture for 10 turns)"

"An enormous demon exits the rift instead of the unit you sent (just a normal model from one of the already present monsters, but with 30 str, cannibalize, blitz and/or other buffs)"


Mind you, those are just awful random ideas I had in my 5 minutes spare time, but my point is, if a dedicated results table is created we could simply add some REALLY bad results...

 

[WarKirby]

We have lost control of the rift. It expanded out of control and rapidly consumed the countryside. Everything is.... gone

Annihilates the city and everything in it, turns the whole BFC to blackwater or Blighted coast.

 

[Divvu]

Annihilates the city and everything in it, turns the whole BFC to blackwater or Blighted coast.

...wow....speaking bout BAD results... you really are evil...

(but I like the Idea nonetheless!)

 

[Breez]

DO NOT ENCOURAGE HIM!

A dedicated result list would be neat, but I think such a nuclear option would simply be so prohibitive noone would bother.

 

[odalrick]

Annihilates the city and everything in it, turns the whole BFC to blackwater or Blighted coast.

So you get all the fun of sacrificing a great sage and permanently losing a city.

There is no way an random event this devastating could be balanced and fun.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, that one is a bit too harsh. Results should have a chance to be BAD though... How bout a mini blight, affecting only that city? You want to be REALLY sadistic, give it a chance to spread along trade routes.

 

[WarKirby]

It would be a cataclysmic event that would be written into the history of the world. I think it'd be amusing.

Byt the time you get Pass through the Ether, settlers are approx 2 turns construction time anyways, and you probably have an army of workers, and already more cities than you can handle. It's not quite on the same level as losing your capital on turn 20 or so.

 

[westamastaflash]

Naming my city Waterdeep, and of course the rift is Undermountain.

 

[odalrick]

It would be a cataclysmic event that would be written into the history of the world. I think it'd be amusing.

Byt the time you get Pass through the Ether, settlers are approx 2 turns construction time anyways, and you probably have an army of workers, and already more cities than you can handle. It's not quite on the same level as losing your capital on turn 20 or so.

A city is much more than a settler. Population takes time to grow, buildings take to make, the ground must be something other than blackwater. By the time you have Pass through Ether, no city you build will have time to grow enough to make a difference.

I think it the effect itself could be fun, as a late game rubber band mechanic or steamroller effect. But not as a random result from sacrificing a great sage.

It would be another Muris clan dumping event.

 

[westamastaflash]

It would be another Muris clan dumping event.

I play the Elohim so I never have to worry about that event, or the library fire event :-D

 

[WarKirby]

I think it the effect itself could be fun, as a late game rubber band mechanic or steamroller effect. But not as a random result from sacrificing a great sage.

But the sage merely creates the portal. A cataclysm could just be one of many possible options for what happens when curiosity gets the better of you, and you just can't leave that portal alone. I think it's a thrilling risk when exploring other worlds isn't always a good outcome. You walways have the option of doing something more sensible like building an academy, if you're a wuss

Another amusing option would be to spawn a str 40 hellbeast that starts with cannibalize. Did I mention I'm working on new Beast of Agares art with seZereth ?

 

[westamastaflash]

But the sage merely creates the portal. A cataclysm could just be one of many possible options for what happens when curiosity gets the better of you, and you just can't leave that portal alone. I think it's a thrilling risk when exploring other worlds isn't always a good outcome.

Another amusing option would be to spawn a str 40 hellbeast that starts with cannibalize. Did I mention I'm working on new Beast of Agares art with seZereth ?

I imagine this spell more as an "undermountain" controlled by the great (insane) sage, so he prevents anything *too* horrible from coming out (usually, unless you've played NWN: HOTU)

 

[Brokenbone]

Great Sage: Halaster Blackcloak

... Anyhow, slowly working my way towards Pass thru the Ether, ha ha, nice thing to look forward to. Must keep a low tech city someplace to churn out cheap warriors, chumming the dungeon kind of thing.

 

[odalrick]

But the sage merely creates the portal. A cataclysm could just be one of many possible options for what happens when curiosity gets the better of you, and you just can't leave that portal alone. I think it's a thrilling risk when exploring other worlds isn't always a good outcome. You walways have the option of doing something more sensible like building an academy, if you're a wuss

Leaving the portal alone isn't an option. Either you don't build it, or you send as many explorers as you possibly can into the portal.

And I want to build it. The reason I'm so dead set against such totally uncontrollable devastation isn't because it hurts or is too powerful or anything like that. It's because it's annoying. It's an automatic reload, or even just deleting the module because it's not fun.

I have nothing against bad results. In fact most of the results should be bad, since they're so easy to prepare against.

Another amusing option would be to spawn a str 40 hellbeast that starts with cannibalize.

Now this is a much more reasonable suggestion. It's bad, but it isn't unfun. You can prepare against it, it's possible to recover from it and there is stuff to do. It can even be good for you if the hellbeast happens to wander off to your enemy. The key thing is that it doesn't just happen at the press of a button, but it unfolds as a consequence of your actions.

Taking this lesson to heart, let's rewrite the original devastation to something more manageable.

Random result: Unstable rift; in 10 to 15 turns (player isn't told the actual time remaining) the rift will go critical.

For the duration any Arcane units sent into the dungeon will actually be trying to stabilize it. They have a high chance of death, modified by channeling promotions, and the number of explorations are tracked.

At the end of the time, if very few explorations have been made, let's say less than 50, the rift will collapse into the blackwater hellhole of the original.

With 500 explorations, the rift stabilizes and with no negative effects. In between, there is a range of effects ranging form some permanent at 499 explorations to wiping out the city and turning the BFC to hell terrain at 51 explorations.

 

[far_wanderer]

While this is an entertaining discussion, I'm afraid I have to spoil everyone's fun by pointing out two things:
1 - Changing the results in any way would require python, and is thus outside of the scope of this module. Even if you come up with a good idea and I agree with it, I can't do anything with it. Wait until Valkrionn puts it in FF+ then bug him to add new effects. He tends to like more splashy things than me anyway .
2 - Based on my first playtest, Controlled Rift is balanced because the good results are also minor at that point in the game. So even if I had the capability, I wouldn't add effects that were any greater in magnitude (better or worse) than what is there right now.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Controlled Rift is an awesome idea. Pass through the Ether is actually kinda late...it would be fun to see earlier. Necromancy, for example.

 

[Valkrionn]

Personally I still like my mini-blight, spreading via trade routes. Mostly because it could turn out to be a good thing... How many different civs do you trade with late game?