Montezuma Immortal Cookbook

[kossin]

Round 1
Save,Discussion and Playing (this post and below)
All submissions for voting (here)

Round 2
Save,Discussion and Playing (here)
All submissions for voting (here)

Round 3
Save, Discussion and Playing (here)
All submissions for voting (upcoming)

Round 4
Save, Discussion and Playing (upcoming)


The Immortal Cookbook is a concurrent succession game series to help readers learn how to play and win at Immortal level in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, v3.19

Some of you may be familiar with the previous Emperor Cookbook games. We decided to raise the level of difficulty to Immortal because we are always playing from the best save and we were often over engineering saves to make them more of a challenge. The difficulty should be approximately equal to Emperor level difficulty, if only slightly harder.

Our Immortal Cookbook game features Montezuma! We will be playing at Immortal difficulty, NORMAL speed, with a standard sized map. Huts and events are disabled for this game, as they tend to make things more random and it will make for better comparison.

Here is the info on our leader, his unique unit and building as well as our starting position and settings:

Leader (sorry, forgot to crop this screenshot - open at your risk)

Spoiler :

Settings

Spoiler :

Huts and events off... rest is standard.

========

To keep the pace going, I've decided to make rounds last EXACTLY one week, from Wednesday to Wednesday. Here's the breakdown of it:

1-Each Wednesday the save will be posted.
2-Following the posting of the save, I will post some relevant information to the position as well as some suggestions, in spoilers.
3-Players are strongly encouraged to contribute their thoughts in spoilers as well, before reading the other spoilers. Half the work of Immortal is planning while the other half is playing it out
4-You can play whenever you want in the week although it might be best to wait for some discussion first - up to you. Round length will be 70/40/40/50s/end unless otherwise said.
5-Play the round and submit your save by Monday, 0h00 GMT. Late submissions will be accepted but you might not get as many comments/votes as otherwise.
6-Voting begins Monday, 0h00 GMT... review the saves and then post your votes and, preferably, why. If not enough votes are generated, I'll handpick the winning save

========

Roster:

YOU! - contributor, voter - our most important fixture, the readers who follow the threads and play along.

Now that we have upped the difficulty level, we will return to the 'best ball' system of selecting and playing saves. What this essentially means is that after we have completed each round, everyone will have a chance to vote on which save is in the best position. The winning save will be used for the next round.

If there is any player who is strong at Immortal+ level, it would be great to have you post your saves to show us how it's done. However, I request that any of you who realize your round was far superior remove your save from the voting. This rule is intended to ensure that the game doesn't get into a overly strong winning position after only a few rounds (because what fun is that? ).

Voting Rules:

1. You may NOT vote on your own save (but you are encouraged to state the strengths and weaknesses of your save).
2. For your vote to count as winning save you are expected to have voted for 3 other saves where possible. There is an element of fair play expected from those that vote and tactical voting is not allowed.
3. Only those who have posted a round may vote (those who are shadowing are always encouraged to express their opinion!)
4. Please don't vote on a save that has voluntarily been removed from the running by the person who submitted it.
5. At the end of each round you can vote on 3 saves for first, second and third place. I believe that these votes should be made publicly in order to allow for as much discussion as possible. I strongly encourage you to explain why you are voting for a particular save. This is one of the best ways to learn, and that's what this game is all about! If you feel uncomfortable voting publicly, PM me with your vote.

========

And now, about the map!

Since the last one wasn't very popular with the crowd... let's start anew. This is the second map I generated, the first being isolation. For the purists out there, I have provided you with the autosave.

Here's your starting area, with the settler selected to see the game's suggestions.


Do you move to grab the second corn or stay in place? Good production, sufficient food either way. You have forests everywhere around you so what you see is what you get.

Round one will last one week and covers the first 70 turns.

We still aren't Wednesday yet you might say... well it should give you some more time for deciding your mind on what to do!

 

[drlake]

Hmm, interesting. Looks like we can SIP to establish an Ivory monopoly, and from that start rule the world! Oh, wait, economics doesn't work that way in this game...

It looks from the screenie like the dry corn is stuck on a peninsula, which would make it unusable unless settled on if we SIP. That can be confirmed by moving the scout W or SW, looks like.

EDIT: Oops, missed the option of settling another city 2E of the dry corn.

 

[obsolete]

So... we got rid of Mansa so no one would break the early game by doing Fleme's Skirmisher rush?

Haha!

 

[(Pro)Peanut_P]

Scout 1SW to (as drlake said) check if the corn is usable with another city. If it's not i may settle 1NW.... at the expense of -1 riverside ele.

[Edit] Dry corn can be used if we were to settle a city 2E of Corn( if needed), so i guess i'll probably SIP

 

[kossin]

So... we got rid of Mansa so no one would break the early game by doing Fleme's Skirmisher rush?

Haha!

You get wet corn and Ivory.

Want gems and a Modern Armor too?

On a serious note I just picked a different Spi leader, yes.

 

[Fierabras]

I'm intrigued by the blue circle. How about moving the scout 1N-1SW?

 

[CivConVict]

Probably gonna settle 1SE or 1E to free up the corn. Settling towards it we might end up with only one hill.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I've gotten straight on with my 70 turns, here's what happened:

Spoiler :

I settled 1E to have a riverside tile, then obviously teched straight to Iron Working for Jaguars. My scout got eaten early by a lion I think so not too much exploring done. I've met JC and Frederick. Built a pile of Jaguars and declared on Julius, have captured one of his cities.
Not looking spectacular, but probably winnable, which is something for me.

 

[GKey]

I'm intrigued by the blue circle. How about moving the scout 1N-1SW?

My experience tells me it's just for double corn + coastal. Somehow it loves coastal capitals.
Personally I am in favor to settle 1SE on riverside ivory. It looks all green tiles out there + river for bureaucracy monster cap.

 

[lymond]

I'm intrigued by the blue circle. How about moving the scout 1N-1SW?

That's exactly what I did to see if a coastal city was worth it.

Here's my 70 turns:

Spoiler :

SIP - In hindsight, although this cap is pretty decent, I wish I'd left more room north for a better coastal city with the obvious horses that popped up. I knew they were going to be there.

After AG I pretty much bee-lined right to IW while holding to 1 city to speed to it. IW obviously to get Jags but also for the jungle. I went AH for the Pigs and then POt.

Settled Pigs/corn/ivory first for a commerce city. Takes some work but should pay off.

Tlatelolco was settle in a somewhat unorthodox position but I like the immediate production potential of this city.

4th settler is out and on the way west for that copper/corn. This land is pretty juicy with some interesting blocking potential. I'd like to get a 5th and 6th settler out pronto to settle the south central or immediate west to secure a nice bit of land. Then we have a couple of coastal cities we can backfill.

I was hesitant to start a rush against Fred or the Romans. Fred is well scouted but should have metals soon and is a bit far away.. I don't see metals for the Romans yet so this is an interesting prospect but you never know. I'd rather get open borders with him and scout his land first.


Empire:

Spoiler :

tenochtitlan

Spoiler :

 

[Kid R]

You can see in the fog the land curves away west, so there will be space to settle the northern corn.

But SE ivory would swap 6 our assorted non-river green/brown forest for definitely more river, 2 unknown tiles, 1 grass hill, 2 green somethings, 1 jungle/forest (can't make it out), and a better blocking position slightly further from the coast (assuming that's coast to the North). The price would be losing the grass riverside ivory to work, which isn't a bad tile. Looks like a good exchange.

 

[vranasm]

I have advice for folks with CiV... don't go to play straight Imm CIV when you played for 5 weeks only CiV...

Spoiler :

I didn't know what to expect from my performance and I have to say that it turned out pretty interresting.

I SIPed, I moved scout the way lymond described and it seemed that the corn could be settled with city to the west, so sip it was.

I then made the usual routine of worker first, tech aggri, then spam some warriors. Did you actually know that in CiV the warriors are actually good for something?

Then I teched mining->bw to chop some hills and reveal copper. In the land scouted at the time I saw no copper, bad luck, so AH next. Well that actually surprised me we have horses "near" but in next culture pop though, I decided to wait it out.

After AH I started wheel->pottery->poly->ph for oracle.

On the settling the land front. Well as I wrote I was all the time thinking about rushing Rome, but no strategy resource no fun, so I instead tried to get some land. I had semi success with almost 4 cities, since the SW one was autorazed with barbarians. (Did i already mentioned too much CiV playing?) The barbs are definitely more annoying since archers eat warriors alive (did I mention that warriors in CiV have some value?)

After running big circle on the continent I finally found copper...right in the middle!

So here we go... 3 cities, 3 chariots (more on the way) and connected copper.
As it seems I kind of decided on mixing rush with oracle building, ehm . be kind on me...too much CiV playing (you know...).



Still very funny! especially the much much much bigger tile yields

 

[CivConVict]

Didn't put much effort into this game, but here goes:

Spoiler :

Tech order: Agriculture -> Archery -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Iron Working

Got silver in Tenochtitlan, which kind of sucks for a cookbook.

 

[(Pro)Peanut_P]

Turn 0-70

Spoiler :

I decided too SIP after moving scout and seeing i could use dry Corn with another city.Worker start, followed by warriorx4 for spawnbusting.Teched Aggri>Mining>BW no copper revealed >(Decided i was gonna rush JC with Jags)>IW.Started on settler after warriors and settled for wet corn SW of Cap. Built barracks in both cities and spam chopped/slaved Jags. I DoW JC on around turn 55-60 i think (It was a few hours ago i played this)with 7 jags, took Antium with 1 casualty,proceeded into his borders(Still chop/slaving Jags) and started pillging. I think i can take Rome in the next 10 turns, and his southern city a few turns after that. I may have been better of not attacking, but we'll see.

[EDIT]

Spoiler :

I took Rome on turn 76.

 

[Fleme]

Heh so I broke the MM one?

Anyhow, looks interesting. I will go for the blue circle as 2 corns beat phants in my book. Besides, I'll atleast have an obvious spot for city 2.

The game:

Spoiler :

Blue Circle, Agriculture, Worker first, scout off to check phant spot.

JC and Freddy, inevitable war with JC but I opted against war prep in my initial turnset as the terrain doesn't really call for early war. Plenty of food for some sac altar whipfest later on.

Anyhow, I went on a bit of a rexing spree and ended up with 5 cities. I also have Stonehenge which will help on the recovery eventually and helps those jungle cities pop borders.

Current status of infra/army

7 Warriors
3 Workers with 4 more being built
5 cities, sized 4,4,2,1,1
1 Stonehenge, 5 monuments
1 Granary (another one in 2t)
1 Barracks

Probably poor techwise. I tanked and am at 0% +2 right now but i have pottery for recovery. Research started on writing but as bpt is currently 0, will have to wait for some cottages to be worked.

I'm content with my save but I'm sure someone will do better..



PS. I love how the dotmap practically makes itself on this map and there's even a sweet, sweet Moai location. kossin

 

[kossin]

@Fleme
Yes but no... that's what I had in mind going off with MM. Hehe, I even experimented with it on Deity - mainly for choking purpose though.

General feeling wasn't great about the sketchy map so just went with something else. More things to learn here anyway.

 

[Grashopa]

My 70

Spoiler :

Settled 1 SE for ivory, riverside, more green for cottages. Went Ag - wheel - pottery - mining - BW .. Only built the one cottage since I wanted to pop out settlers as fast as possible. Look at the sweet exploration my scout got me - and he survived to swing WNW and spawnbust the SW of the capital.



Went worker-worker, and settled my second city at the wet corn in order to assist with worker production. Plan was to grab as much green as possible - hopefully we get the happy to make use of it. Picked up writing for trading routes then accidentally teched into IW when I should have been banking the gold. I'm sure I'll end up picking up IW, but gold gives you more options + library bonus. I also mistakenly settled SW of cap when I meant to settle the stone to the SE hence the road to nowhere. Hopefully we get the stone/sheep/clams site with the settler being built in cap - can always switch to slavery and whip it to be sure.

*workers and cottages is the plan from here.

 

[Fleme]

@Grashopa

Spoiler :

Obviously on the phant is the place to settle but I'm wondering how did you have the foresight to do so? It's a great move. I like how you got 6 cities out, that's a great feat - all the while having a stronger economy than what I did with 5. I'd also like to commend you on the ballsy move with Tlatelolco and getting the Texcoco spot. While both are horrible for now, they're 2 less spots for JC to have. I personally planned to seal off JC by settling 1S of the peak SW of Tlatelolco for sealing but obviously having Sugar is a bonus. I didn't secure any in my game and you have 4.

Question:

1) Why did you opt for Tlaxcala to be off the river? To me it looks like you're exchanging 2 and the option for late extra production for 2 mountains?

In short: Good Rex at the cost of infrastructure. + points for good roading. Excellent scouting. It's my guess this save will be top 3 on the vote.

 

[Grashopa]

Fleme

Spoiler :

Yeah the city should have been 1E, I was just avoiding overlap with the city to the east I think plus I wanted more green for cottaging though mine the hill and the monument is knocked out fast..

As for the capital, I wanted to make room for a city on the coast, extra hammer, riverside, more green for cottages.. Didn't even have to think about it.

Having the scout survive like that makes a huge difference when you can see the whole map and plan ahead. Biggest problem this map is if you have no religion you will get attacked by both these guys and have to plan for it. In my save I put a city on a hill, but thats one huge border with JC. The next round will be interesting whichever save. Attack JC and Germany gets twice as big. Expand and you've got two neighbors and a big border.

 

[Fleme]

Grashopa

Spoiler :

I'm at work now and can't confirm but I recall Freddy founding a religion in my game. Not that it really makes a difference because JC has an unattainable fav civic, will declare at pleased and doesn't care much for shared religion. That combined with the fact that we'll end up sharing a very long border with him is a recipe for unavoidable war.

Yeah, next round will inevitably be war and there's already one save that's gaining ground on Rome (which will also be a strong contender to win the vote) and peace as an option is pretty much ruled out. With this in mind, my own save in retrospect is in a relatively weak position as I haven't started even thinking about war prep as my economy didn't allow for it and going for SH over an extra city cost me a bit of expansion. It's funny how you play your segment thinking: "Oh, I feel I did fine and this is going to be a strong save" but then you face the realities

Well, good game all in all. I'm just a stickler for city positioning and fresh water!