[BTS] NC 213: Bismarck 1. German chancellor or "When is a nation a nation?"

[Tobiyogi]

Dear players of the Noble's Club series,

our story begins in the 19th century when many countries begin to identify themselves as “Nations”. Common borders and identification with the flag will soon be having bigger impact than customs, dialects or racial attributes. On German ground, Prussians, Saxons, Bavarians and many more combine their forces in order to defeat the French under Napoleon III.

Duke Otto von Bismarck is the outstanding leader of that time as he manages to involve several Free States into that Franco-Prussian War, realizes a couple of social improvements and eventually declares Germany a Nation while becoming its first chancellor in 1871.

In this Episode, you will meet the really big guys! No desperate warmongers from predemocratic times, no shattered tribes only known by a couple of history nerds, but on the other hand all the huge global players that have defined world history and that contribute largely to the population on earth. We want to play a “nationalist” game and therefore your goals are:

1. Be the first to discover Nationalism!
2. Lead your nation into at least one war under the flags of “Nationhood”!
3. Shape your national borders in terms of common ! That means: New settlements are supposed to share at least one border tile with the existing empire - Target cities first where German culture is already present - Raze every city with < 3% German AND no border strip at all. Let your Nation grow naturally like an octopus spreading its tentacles all over the continent.

Bismarcks traits provoke to play a high production game. Industrious doubles production speed of forges and gives 50% bonus on national/ great wonders. Expansive can neutralize the by +2 per city and double production speed of granaries. Also you benefit from a 25% bonus on workers.

Spoiler About the map :

In order to make his traits still more useful, I have chosen "Great Plains" (+ 1 extra AI). On this kind of map, you would normally meet early health problems as forests are scarce. On the other hand, you get many productive tiles like plains cows/ horses. A dream combination for our leader!

Our starting position that might shock you a little bit:

The starting techs are mining/ hunting.
The German UB, the Assembly plant is a factory that can turn 4 citizens into engineers (instead of 2) and that will be produced 50% faster with coal.
The UU Panzer is a tank with + 50% vs. any armored unit (so basically Modern armor and tanks).
On this map with many land tiles and 8 Civs, we will probably make good use of those late game boosts.

Spoiler A general strategic idea, no map spoiler :

Starting with mining and being industrious would make me think of building TGW. There could be a nice synergy between getting Great Spies and running nationhood later, as that civic also provides +25% in every city. By the way, Berlin is considered to be the "Capitol of Spies" and has recently inaugurated the German Spy Museum.

Spoiler Barb techs :

Please don't forget to give the right techs to the barbs by zooming out and entering the WB: On monarch add archery, on emperor hunting, on immortal agriculture and on deity everything plus the wheel.

Sidemark: The historical framework is by no means a praise of German history or warfare from the past centuries even though I must admit that my birthplace is right in the middle of ancient Prussia
I was figuring what kind of game could suit that Bismarck guy the most and when I learned later that he loves Nationhood, I took it as confirmation of my initial idea. Please have fun while being a ruthless and nationalist leader "made of steel"!

 

[Anysense]

Raze every city with < 3% German

Doesn't this requirement effectively forbid expansion through conquest?

 

[Tobiyogi]

Doesn't this requirement effectively forbid expansion through conquest?

.... less than 3% culture AND no border strip with the existing empire. Maybe that will be possible, I am not sure though. So basically cities that, when the revolt is over, still have no cultural contact with your empire.

 

[Gumbolt]

So the idea with nationalism is to adopt the civic? Maybe the requirement should be to adopt it straight away and stay in it for rest of game. Which pulls us towards muskets, rifles and infantry. What is a war under flag of Nationhood? All units must be draft?

So culture rule. New cities have to share 1 tile of culture for new cities.
To understand this 3% rule on capture. How quickly does a tile get 3% of culture? So if I capture a capital that has a tile with 5% german culture in 3rd tile away from city how does this work when the city enters revolt. There could be a 1 tile gap in culture?

Maybe the rule could be all cities with 3% German culture must be kept? You may not raze AI cities?

I don't think we will see factories here. Which is a shame. A requirement to get at least 5 great engineers by end of game could of been interesting. With a further requirement to settle in your capital.
Also a requirement to build factories in every city originally settled by you.
Or create one corp that is production related.

I think main confusion will be over the 3% culture rule and what you can and can't keep.

Would of been nice to see 1 resource in starting pic.

 

[Tobiyogi]

The central theme in the storyline is really how to play a "nationalist" game. So challenges concerning GE or factories would fit into another game. I don't think that one must stay in Nationhood all the time. First of all, discover Nationalism. Then switch into that civic for the period of at least one war. Maybe you can build the Taj and then switch "for free".
The third rule might be the confusing one, I know. I wanted to point out the difference between colonialism (= conquest of foreign continents), imperialism (= trying to take over as much land as possible and leaving it to local administration, like the Romans did) and nationalism (where you go for war to add some of your neighbours country to your own empire because you think it is yours anyway, like between France and Germany or between India and Pakistan). We cannot simulate that situation perfectly here though. That's why I was creating that rule. Honestly, I don't know if culture in newly conquered cities will be higher than 3% so I want at least incite you to take over those cities first that already share borders. You can ofc always go for any distant civ you would like (because they built the best wonders), but if they are not your direct neighbours then it won't be a nationalist war. What you can also do, you can take a non-border city first (like the capitol) and take the filler cities before the revolt in the capitol is over. So common culture will fall into place. Don't take it too seriously. The idea is to have a clear direction for conquest, maybe sometimes the necessary border pop will come 10T later and that'll okay.

 

[elementoffear]

This going to be is an interesting game, I like the nationalism challenge.

Also industrious is my favorite civic as it helps build a string capital with lots of wonders.

Looking at the start, is the snapshot without resources shown or is it just no resources there?

 

[AcaMetis]

Looking at the start, is the snapshot without resources shown or is it just no resources there?

Actually both, no resources visible and they're not highlighted (for what that's worth). At least I don't see any tile yields that would indicate the presence of a resource.

 

[Kjotleik]

Hm. A Nobles' Club game with an extra added challenge to spice things up?

My interest is peaked a bit now. This is the perfect game to start playing a bit again. I've been busy with other games, as well as adding a "few" leaders and civs into the game, using Better BUG AI mod as a starting point. I've only had time to playtest the first few turns, to check that the new leaders I've put in actually works, gameplay-wise.

Now I feel like playing a whole game again. This is it. Thanks for the extra challenge. It interests me.

...of course, after the AI's all gang up on me I'll be busy...

 

[Deathcrush]

I like the role-playing thingy but i don't like the start.
Sad. The capitol should have food. other than that u have some good spots for cottages but i don't see how that will work without at least one strong food.

 

[Gumbolt]

I like the role-playing thingy but i don't like the start.
Sad. The capitol should have food. other than that u have some good spots for cottages but i don't see how that will work without at least one strong food.

The OP has stated there is food near start. Use your scout wisely. Then settle based on what you find.

 

[Kjotleik]

Hmm...

EDIT: Never Mind. I had to update my ancient 7-Zip to the latest version. Now it works... silly me...

Original Post:
Does anyone have a zip-file?
7-Zip apparantly refuses to open .rar-files. I tried with both NC 213 and 210, both of which are .rar-files. None of them opens with 7-Zip.

 

[Fippy]

Embracing bad starts is the best way of getting better
There's always some food, sometimes you might need to walk some turns, but as Civ4 got older we take more for granted.
I remember legendary players like Snaaty searching for up to ~5 turns for better starting posis, who would still do this today?

 

[Imploding]

Hi,

Liked the challenge! obviously liking not liking the starting location and the lackluster information. But i guess it can be a learning opportunity. More on that in the spoiler under.
Cause of the concept of this game I loaded up a Immortal game. I'm afraid this is a Deity nightmare. But really interested to see of some of the seasoned Deity approach

Spoiler Thoughs about the start :

I dont think a NC game should "trick" a player.. into gambling about the Settling of capitol. From my reasoning you should move the scout to the east. which gives 3 cows if you move 1E. BUT. And no information about the West.
The best capitol IMO is to move 2W1N. and settle on the river with the plainscow to work for a faster worker. That position would be impossible to access without a reveal. I reloaded cause of that informationlacluster start. Which made my starting of the game a little weird.

Spoiler My attempt Immortal NH. :

Settled 2W1N. quick worker and teched AH.
Found horses in BFC great! But still decided to go for TGW. Was worried that chariots would not be sufficient barb defense.
That paid of huge! Churchill got "invaded" and got really slowed down cause of all the barbs entreing his lands.

Spoiler Churchill :

He still got this city tho and OMG. I want it! as early as possible. Have no clue about how to get it.. maybe cata/HA push..? Or wait for cata/mace.

Spoiler Overview t89 :

Got up to t89 now and I'm liking the game. have some serious happiness issues but a great hammer situation. Have Aesthetics and waiting for the alpha trade.
Will need monarchy for happyiness and maybe i want to wait for org rel to get the double switch.

Still thinking about a early as possible attack to grab Churchill good land. He also got the Stonehenge which is nice to conquer.

 

[Imploding]

Immortal NH

Spoiler T89- :

Got nice Failgold from pyramids.. and since this is hammer is heavy land + IND.
Why not MC? Gandi got MC from oracle..

After the initial Aes/Alpha tech trading. Was really debating to trade it to aes to Lincon. for 4 turns earlier alpha. but I did.
Unsure if it was worth it since _everyone_ was over halfway to alpha when I got it.. and I got minimal trading from alpha. Trading Aes at a minimum for now. .. only to churchill for IW+poly.. Hoping he goes into wonder building mode.

I have Iron. and a plan is forming.
Maybe avoid fishing and use my second GP which is 100 % going to be a scientist (got a spy from GW at 70 % odds) to Bulb Machinery and go for a Mace/cata push. Can destroy walls and steal techs for relevanse while I crush Churchill.
Hoping I can get it a push going before longbows.. have my points on Churhchill and he is currently teching CoL. he migth found confusion and be hated + build a shrine with is Great prophet (if i gets a prophet).

Spoiler situation T95 :

Spoiler Turn 99 oh the timing! :

As churhill gets CoL and founds Confucianism he gets the prophet! haha..
He just switched into Judaism.. but that will change in a couple of turns.. and we will get a holy city for me!

I also traded aes for monarchy for the double switch. unsure about which religion but maybe hindu if I get it early enough.
Seems like Suleiman is going for Catherine.. ha have units on her boarder and ig getting bullied by her culture. But he migth go for Ghandi aswell.. he is not that far from him.

Spoiler t100 :

Churhill bulbed theo with his GP.. great... Well.. Christianiy is his favoruite religion.. so he got a higher incline to switch into a different religion than the rest of the world.

Spoiler T115 :

I'm ready to bulb Machinery.. and will be able to steal CoL soon.. have decent ability to get a good bang for my ESP point from Canterbury since he settled so closed to me.
I infiltrate and I compare building Spies to cata right now.
I estimate that I can attack in 20 turns with Mace/Cata/spies. Unfortonatly Churchill has not build any wonders.. and is spreading Judaism in his cities. He has not started the AP. Migth steal Theology aswell and trade it to ghandi or mao. I'm a bit afraid of getting a huge Judaism powerblock.

 

[Imploding]

Spoiler T116-t152 :

Getting my things going. There is tension brewing.. Cathy, suli is plotting.
Ghandi is probably the target. Mao was figthing him earlier.. but got out of the war quick.

Bit afraind of a gangup on Ghandi.. So I manage to get Mao to attack linkon for MC + a bunch of minor techs..
2 turns later.. and some help/luck of the other AI's... and this is the situation!

Cathy and suleiman is still plotting.. (probably ghandi) That means that the whole world is figthing!
3 turns away from stating my own Warprep.

only bad thing is Everyone Churchill is fighting is to far away to cause him any issues.. so he will just build army and sit at home.

t124
Churchill.. he is the first to that tech (sigh).
Thinking about stealing Theocracy as well..
t125
Suleiman goes for ghandi! hoping that chatrin will go for suleiman. for the perfect WW
Stole feuda and theo from Churchill. Planing to go into Byro and Teo get my 2x promoted maces and catas!
t127
Give teo to lincon (he is the only guy in Hinduism. I don't have any hindu cities but i want to overall reduce the impact of AP shenanigans on the map.
get a event. every crossbow get a free combat 1 promotion! yay! self teching construction.. 5 guys have it no one wants to trade.
t128
Cathrine goes for churchill! i guess that is good! she can eat up and distract his army. Ready for the attack in 3-5 turns.
Thinking about selfteching engineering. It's 7 turns. and will really help! Maybe guilds after that!
t135
I started the war! Snagged Canterbury on the first turn. Fighting the superprotected longbows is not fun..! Even with no culture defence.
t136
Grabbed hastings with only losing catas. Used spy to put city into revoult! After 3 catas sunk into 2 longbows i still only had 40 % chance with a 2x CR mace. Not great.
4 turns untill engineering. will probably only defend untill i can push with trebs. Maybe grab one of his newer cities.
t137 -143
Grabbed oxford and Newcastle.
He is moving his army close thastings and Cologne.. seems like he has difficulties to find a opening.
Cathy is friendly! Which enable me to attack suleiman! She is also building the MoM.. one of my favourite wonders to grab in war. Kind of thinking about attacking her next.
t144-t150
He managed to grab cologne with minimal losses! What the hell! But annyways that enabled me to grab London & York since it was not well defended.
Will probably CAP him as soon as i can get my city back. using it for target defence rigth now.
t 151
He suecided his stack into may targetpractise group 0 losses. He will now cap! Thinking about it...
I think I got every city from him that i wanted.. and I can get everything back for Cap.

Caping him.
The situation is now like this: 12 cities where 8 of them are really good. Will probably have some culture issues in London.. But York (HE city) is safe. Also got Chichen Itza and SH.

The plan onwards is to finish guilds.. get some knights.. Cathy will hopefully wast her stack against Suli and back stab her. The MoM got built by lincon.
Thinking about it..

Lincon might be the next target.. He got all the goodies. MoM, TGL, Pyra.. AP The Parthenon..

 

[Deathcrush]

Spoiler :

there is no "lincon" on this map. and it 's Lincoln.
The whole time you 're saying "Lincon" you meant Roosevelt din't you ?

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

There is no "Ghandi", no "Cathrine" and no "Roosvelt" either, if we really want to go down that path.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Playing Immortal NHNE. Forgot to forbid tech brokering. It's weird when you can trade anything, you spent so much time checking the trades, selling obsolete stuff to minor civs. Economically, it's much easier with full trading, I believe. As for the "nationalist game", I am committing to my own challenges:

Spoiler :

first to discover Nationalism and taking all the English cities in cultural order. No Nationhood yet, I will save that for a later war when drafting makes sense. At the moment, I am attacking with Cuirs.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Spoiler about the other leaders :

It's a good thing that there are some heavy backstabbers around (Catherine, Mao, de Gaulle). When the first wars had been declared, I could still heat the fire with some tech bribing. Even though most of the guys are Hindu, I could bribe Catherine on Mao, then Suleiman on Catherine. The weaker guys like Roosevelt and de Gaulle had been bribed by the others. Even Gandhi declared on someone. A bit like on a planet after a nuclear strike, with a lots of devastation. In the meantime I went to Lib really easy.

 

[Gumbolt]

In terms of wonder strategies here would be my plan.

Spoiler The plan :

Early on grab stonehenge. It gives 8 culture and helps border pops. (Ah/ Myst)
Great wall. Barbs here will be crazy, (Masonry)
Mids in a 2nd or 3rd city.
Oracle in capital. (Priesthood)
GP can be used towards theology. Opens up paper and edu. This is what a decent production city can do.
With Oracle decide on HBR or maybe monarchy?

Very hard to gift resources here as most AI will have horse and cows.